Moonshiners method feedback

[OutColdCRNA]

So you should not be tuning the dailies off of ICP-OES results (yours appear to be OES results, judging by the OCR in the test ID).

In order to tune multipliers for daily elements, based on the instructions in the handbook and the calculator, you need the ICP-MS test (which of course is the more expensive one).

Tuning dailies blindly is very risky business, and not something I'd recommend. 3x is where you should stop, as those elements should never appear on an OES test (which it says in the handbook and the dosing calculator). Manganese / iodine / vanadium are the exceptions.

Most importantly, I'm certain the faded colors are the result of your nutrients being undetectable. Get that phosphate up to 0.1 ppm, and keep that nitrate up as well (> 10 ppm is where I like it personally).

Thanks! Now that I looked back at my notes from the previous ms test to this oes test I am at 2x not 3x. My mistake. I remember thinking I wasn’t going to push it to 3x without running another MS test.

Still curious why I lost an acro with a previous cal correction and again with this correction. Just one frag out of approximately 20 acros both times. I’m assuming my guess is a localized spike in alk as it circulated through the tank from the return.

 

[Max93]

Moonshine all the way, I haven’t lost an acro in 7 months. What I mean by this is I have a 90% success rate since starting on the shine. I always struggled - stabled parameters, but everything freaking died.

I think people forget that calcium reactors also dose traces into tanks and we think “stability is key” is the only thing. I think corals handle swings better with moonshine method.

 

[LadAShark]

It would be next to impossible to make a salt mix without any “trace” elements. They almost always come as impurities with other raw materials like sodium chloride and magnesium

It's possible to get enough to be practically "without" any trace. It will take chemistry knowhow, however, and some distillation/filtration/etc. equipment.

 

[Reefahholic]

Been running moonshiners for a few months, was seeing immediate results and loved it. Over the last month I have seen a decline in acro colors. While fighting GHA my nutrients have dropped. Last icp showed phos at n.n. And nitrate at 2. Been dosing nutrients to bring back up every day. My Alk is high at 9.2 consistently. But I did dose calcion p over four days and had a smooth skin acro stn. This is the second that stn’d after calcium dosing. I’ll try to screen shot my IcP but do you think the pale colors is from lack of nutrients?

You have got to have P in the system, otherwise corals will just check out.

 

[Reefahholic]

There are several elements that are not detectable. Those are predominantly dailies.

I am now at 3x volume for the dailies.

I remember thinking I wasn’t going to push it to 3x without running another MS test.

Keep in mind that you cannot increase the dailies unless the system is consuming them. To target those elements, and get accurate data you’ll need to send the ICP-MS analysis. The ICP-MS tool will give you the guidance on further daily dosing. If you read the Handbook you’ll notice it says to keep the dailies undetected, because we were still limited with ATI-OES at the time the Handbook was written. Modifications should be coming very soon. If you’re using any OES tool, it will not tell you anything about 1X, 2x, Resulting Multiplier’s etc. That information can only be found on the ICP-MS tool (that requires the ICP-MS analysis), and it will never lead you wrong unless you enter the value incorrectly or try to copy what somebody else is doing. Everything is always based on your system volume and consumption of each individual element. A new file will be coming very soon (maybe today or tomorrow) and will have all the daily element targets and guidance on the summary page. Highly recommend switching to MS to get this data for all ultra trace elements.

 

[A.B. Corals]

Hey.. sorry for your situation.

First off I preface this post with the fact that I consider myself fairly nooby and I urge you to take my comments with a grain of salt.

One thing I will say is that you can’t write off that you are not adequately following moonshiner. You have multiple elements which are undetectable and pollutants which appear elevated. Iron for example.. I think it’s bad to have that undetectable on Oceamo ICP. Again JMO and I’m not surprised if that is a culprit.

Other than that personally I always try to keep nutrients detectable, and they are on ICPs every time.

I think every system is so different so I think it’s prudent to be humble when commenting on anyone’s situation. For all we know you simply have some type of “bad” bacteria running rampant in your system, for example.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. You should read the moonshiner handbook and get suggested elements in range before insinuating you are adequately following the method.

Charlie

The test type is not MS. So the levels will not be detectible to the ultra low levels in sample. Only MS ICP will give you the detectable levels.

 

[Rst]

Hi, I live in Canada and would like to know if anybody here in Canada has been able to obtain a constant supply of Moonshiners chemicals. If so, where/how does one living in Canada able to do the same?
Thanks in advance, Ron

 

[Rst]

Hi, I live in Canada and would like to know if anybody here in Canada has been able to obtain a constant supply of Moonshiners chemicals. If so, where/how does one living in Canada able to do the same?
Thanks in advance, Ron

Sorry I have just found the information in the Moonshinners online documentation. Please ignore/cancel this post.

 

[Sean Landholt]

What is everyone dosing to keep their Alk stable while using this method? I am currently using ESV 2 part but it has elevated levels of trace element that I don't want to be adding on top of what I am going to be dosing through MS. I have high PH so Kalk might not be the best option for me.

 

[Roberto Denadai]

It’s just common sense. We’re all trying to target elements close to what they are in the natural ocean.

Which ocean are you talking about? Fiji , Red Sea , Indonesia , Australia , Bali , Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Maldives ?? Shallow or deep reefs ??

Each coral reef has its own concentration of trace elements. Can be higher in one and low in another. How do you know which is best?
RM is just a method without a scientific basis, but people love magic pills

 

[Stang67]

What is everyone dosing to keep their Alk stable while using this method? I am currently using ESV 2 part but it has elevated levels of trace element that I don't want to be adding on top of what I am going to be dosing through MS. I have high PH so Kalk might not be the best option for me.

I am using the brs sodium bicarbonate and it doesn't affect my ph. At least that I have been able to tell with the test kit I use.

 

[Reefahholic]

Which ocean are you talking about? Fiji , Red Sea , Indonesia , Australia , Bali , Philippines, Papua New Guinea, Maldives ?? Shallow or deep reefs ??

Each coral reef has its own concentration of trace elements. Can be higher in one and low in another. How do you know which is best?
RM is just a method without a scientific basis, but people love magic pills

Then put your tank up get several Moonshine Tanks and let’s find out.

 

[Reefahholic]

RM is just a method without a scientific basis, but people love magic pills

How is RM a magic pill? If the element is depleted you correct it.

Rocket Science huh.

 

[gbroadbridge]

How is RM a magic pill? If the element is depleted you correct it.

Rocket Science huh.

If it's biologically required then perhaps.

But simply replacing a depleted element in a tank simply because it exists in seawater with no documented biochemical use is simply a waste of money.

No rocket science at all.

 

[penguinexdeus]

If it's biologically required then perhaps.

But simply replacing a depleted element in a tank simply because it exists in seawater with no documented biochemical use is simply a waste of money.

No rocket science at all.

If it’s depleted it went somewhere or more likely something used it because consumption rates are seen to change as things in the tank grow. It’s a very simple concept - restock the shelves if your store is selling a lot of one product and don’t order more if it’s not going anywhere.

There’s a lot of things in reef keeping that aren’t fully understood and if not having a fully documented and understood purpose is the only qualifier for being worth money than more than half of the additives and products available are a waste of money.

People on moonshine see results and feel the method is worth it to them. Those who didn’t see results likely abandoned it. The basic concept of what the method is isn’t difficult nor is it unique… why don’t people hate on Triton this much?

 

[Daenion]

It worked well for me.

Your mileage WILL vary.

 

[gbroadbridge]

If it’s depleted it went somewhere or more likely something used it because consumption rates are seen to change as things in the tank grow. It’s a very simple concept - restock the shelves if your store is selling a lot of one product and don’t order more if it’s not going anywhere.

That is an untrue assumption.

There are many processes that can deplete elements in a tank including oxidation and precipitation.
That does not mean that they need to be replaced, you would just be wasting money.

There’s a lot of things in reef keeping that aren’t fully understood and if not having a fully documented and understood purpose is the only qualifier for being worth money than more than half of the additives and products available are a waste of money.

People on moonshine see results and feel the method is worth it to them. Those who didn’t see results likely abandoned it. The basic concept of what the method is isn’t difficult nor is it unique… why don’t people hate on Triton this much?

Subjectively people see results, which could simply be wishful thinking or a placebo effect.

I don't hate the method, it is simply unproven like many products designed to squeeze money out of peoples wallets.

And I can assure you, Triton are up to the same tricks when it comes to promoting additives with no proven benefit.

 

[Reefahholic]

If it's biologically required then perhaps.

But simply replacing a depleted element in a tank simply because it exists in seawater with no documented biochemical use is simply a waste of money.

No rocket science at all.

Yep….complete waste of money. Please do NOT play with trace element dosing.

 

[Reefahholic]

But simply replacing a depleted element in a tank simply because it exists in seawater with no documented biochemical use is simply a waste of money.

No rocket science at all.

Perhaps you haven’t seen the latest studies that aren’t published yet. Oops.

 

[Reefahholic]

There are many processes that can deplete elements in a tank including oxidation and precipitation.

That also stimulate rapid Calcium and Alkalinity consumption?