Mouth/gill injury or something else?

[BigJohnny]

I brought in a fathead sunburst anthias from DD a few days ago. It was very out of it upon arrival and kind of just swam/floated upside down initially. The lights were very dim and I didn't get a good look at it. A few hours later it was right side up hiding behind a heater and appeared to be breathing normally/no issues.

The lights were pretty dim for the next 48 hours (ambient only) and it was hidden down behind a sponge filter so I didn't see much of it. I could see it was swimming/breathing normally and curious about me. I fed 3x a day and although the fish looked like it really wanted to eat it would not leave it's hiding spot completely, so I always walked away and don't know how much it has eaten if anything. This is normal behavior ime for timid fish.

Up until today I had only seen the fishes left side (which looks completely normal). Today it was a bit more brave and from the left side (but this time up close) it looked like it's right gill was swollen/visible below the body from the left side. I then saw it head on and it looks as though it possibly tore/stretched open the right side of its mouth and tore/sliced a piece hanging off the outside. the stretched right side is stuck open while the left side is closed. I thought I saw redness/bruising on that side of the face as well. I couldn't get a good look and I know that's a confusing description but it's all I've got right now.

I was unable to get pictures but will try my best in the am. I really need to figure out if this is an injury or something else like a bacterial infection/lympho/uronema because I have a blue nose pencil wrasse coming in on Tuesday and I don't want to put it in a tank with uronema or something crazy. Obviously I also want to take care of this fish. Weird part is it is showing no obvious signs of stress, which obviously is a good thing.

I tried to find threads with anthias mouth injury and part of it looks like this pic. The differences are that my fish has a swollen gill hanging down below that (if that's what it is) and possible redness on that side of the face. It's mouth opening on that side appears stuck open when the other side closes. Again, I'll get pics in the am, I just wanted to get this started so you all could help me save this fish asap

Thanks!

 

[HotRocks]

Have you done a FW dip to see if flukes are causing the Gill issue?

It may just be an injury like you said, but it's worth checking.

 

[BigJohnny]

Have you done a FW dip to see if flukes are causing the Gill issue?

It may just be an injury like you said, but it's worth checking.

No I've never done one and don't have any reason to suspect flukes over other possible causes mentioned. What makes you think flukes based on my terrible description ; ) ?

Thanks for posting btw. Curious, if it is an open sore/injury I wonder if a FW dip would irritate it. I'd personally rather not do one and plan on treating with prazi anyway. I just want to eliminate the possibility of uronema and decide if I need to treat with antibiotics. I realize this is very difficult without pics.

 

[BigJohnny]

What's weird is there is nothing sharp in the tank, I have no idea how it would have injured itself. The powerhead is too small to touch the fish, the sponge filter is obviously a sponge, and pvc is round. The only possibility I can think of is somehow it got injured by the aquaclear 30 intake, maybe when it was disoriented, but I think that's unlikely. I considered ammonia burn as I think that can swell the gills but that doesn't explain it only being on one side and the mouth open/cut.

 

[BigJohnny]

OK here's the best I could do tonight. Will take all angles and a video tomorrow under better lighting.

1st pic is from under/the left side. you can kinda see the right side gill swollen/hanging down below as well as the piece hanging off the mouth

2nd and 3rd pics show the redness/bruising on the right side and the piece hanging off the front of the mouth.

What these pics don't show is the right side of the mouth is stretched or torn open. It's unclear to me at this point if it's stretched or if the piece hanging off is what's missing.

 

[BigJohnny]

Because of the redness my gut instinct is to treat with an antibiotic (or 3) to prevent infection while it heals, but I have the blue nose pencil wrasse coming in on Tuesday and I have no other place to put it. I think arriving into an antibiotic medicated tank is not ideal but I'm afraid the anthias will develop an infection if it hasn't already. My other concern is that I'm not sure it's eating and antibiotics may suppress appetite. If the injury is preventing it from eating then I guess that doesn't matter. Maybe I'll try some lrs fish eggs since they are so small.

@Humblefish, @melypr1985, @4FordFamily

Any suggestions?

 

[HotRocks]

Do you have an ammonia badge?

I am struggling a bit with the pics. I can see some slight redness around the gills. If the fish was exposed to ammonia during shipping or in your tank that could be what's going on with the gills, and a 30 min bath in MB would help this. (If that is the case).

If you are seeing red near the injury, it could be developing a secondary infection.

You could do a 90 minute bath in acriflavine, it is an antiseptic and may help prevent infection.

 

[BigJohnny]

Do you have an ammonia badge?

I am struggling a bit with the pics. I can see some slight redness around the gills. If the fish was exposed to ammonia during shipping or in your tank that could be what's going on with the gills, and a 30 min bath in MB would help this. (If that is the case).

If you are seeing red near the injury, it could be developing a secondary infection.

You could do a 90 minute bath in acriflavine, it is an antiseptic and may help prevent infection.

Yea sorry I know the pics suck, I'm taking more when it gets up this morning.

Yes I have an ammonia badge and the fish was not drip acclimated. However, I have considered this and wondered if the swimming upside down initially can happen from ammonia toxicity or something. Maybe it additionally hurt itself on the aquaclear in a panic when it came to.

Unfortunately I don't have any methylene blue, but I do have furan-2, which if I recall works well for ammonia burn or any open red sores. If it turns out its not ammonia burn but an infected injury, maybe the furan-2 would help that anyway.

I do have ruby reef rally which contains acriflavine, but the idea of trying to catch the fish makes me worried it will injur itself further by darting into something. Not sure I could do it without a net either which obviously could catch that injury (if that's what it is).

 

[Big G]

furan-2, which if I recall works well for ammonia burn or any open red sores.

Yep. Nitrofuracine, the primary ingredient in Nitrofuracine Green Powder (NFG), works great on those red sores/spots. Try catching it at night with a small flashlight aimed at the fish's face. It will mesmerize the fish while you net it. Best of luck with your beautiful fish.

 

[BigJohnny]

Yep. Nitrofuracine, the primary ingredient in Nitrofuracine Green Powder (NFG), works great on those red sores/spots. Try catching it at night with a small flashlight aimed at the fish's face. It will mesmerize the fish while you net it. Best of luck with your beautiful fish.

Thanks. Couldn't I just dose the QT if I decide to treat with that?

Btw, what do you think is occurring with the fish?

 

[Big G]

Yep, dose the QT. Hard to say what's up with the fish from your pictures. Give the Furan2 a good 10 days of treatment for the fish's immune system to repair the damage. It works on both gram positive and gram negative infections. Mix up a "smoothie" of frozen fish cubes: fish eggs, cyclops, etc. with some Selcon, to help the fish recover. Small frequent feedings.

 

[BigJohnny]

Yep, dose the QT. Hard to say what's up with the fish from your pictures. Give the Furan2 a good 10 days of treatment for the fish's immune system to repair the damage. It works on both gram positive and gram negative infections. Mix up a "smoothie" of frozen fish cubes: fish eggs, cyclops, etc. with some Selcon, to help the fish recover. Small frequent feedings.

I'm concerned about introducing the blue nose pencil wrasse into the qt on Tuesday, from experience I know it's too late to cancel, the way live aquaria/divers den interacts and operates. Does furan 2 have a lot of side effects? I'd rather not expose the blue nose to antibiotics if I don't have to. Would it serve double duty in anyway like to treat the blue nose for some internal parasites like metro? I'm trying to weigh the benefits/necessity with the anthias vs downsides to the blue nose.

@eatbreakfast

You have experience with pencils, how do you think it would handle that?

 

[BigJohnny]

Well, I woke up this morning to a dead fish. I'll take some pics and then hopefully you guys can help me understand what happened.

 

[HotRocks]

Man I'm sorry to hear that.

Such a bummer...

 

[BigJohnny]

Some pics

 

[BigJohnny]

Few more

 

[BigJohnny]

So it looks to me like the injury was pretty severe based on how bruised the right side of the head is. I have no idea how it hurt itself or if it just arrived like that. What's weird is that besides hiding from me when I came in the room it never seemed stressed. Breathing was normal and no odd behavior. I actually thought it looked a little better yesterday, then bam.

 

[HotRocks]

So it looks to me like the injury was pretty severe based on how bruised the right side of the head is. I have no idea how it hurt itself or if it just arrived like that. What's weird is that besides hiding from me when I came in the room it never seemed stressed. Breathing was normal and no odd behavior. I actually thought it looked a little better yesterday, then bam.

Definitely looks to have been an injury turned bacterial infection to me.

 

[BigJohnny]

Definitely looks to have been an injury turned bacterial infection to me.

Such a shame, was a beautiful fish. Hard to come by recently as well.

 

[Big G]

So sorry for your loss. For a fish to die that rapidly, it would indicate a gram negative infection. Only way to be sure would to do a scrape and stain test.