MP10 falling off

[GoPitt88]

The Ecotech MP10 manual even says to use vinegar.
https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/MP10_QD_QSG.pdf
See page 3, Maintenance.
I use Distilled White Vinegar, which is only 5% acetic acid. I also soak the parts in a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar. I've been doing this for over a year and have not seen any problems.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't really know....my gueses would be maybe ABS and/or Nylon?? But epoxy, rubber, acetyl, ceramic and other materials might also play crucial roles.

I suspect I ruined a few PVC-coated power cords on my older pumps. The plastic on some got really hard and inflexible over the years. I assume being close to a metal halide bulb for 6-12 hours per day played a part too.

(I'm not so good with maintenance anymore, so new cords are all fine, but the insides might be questionable. ;Headphone)

 

[redfishbluefish]

The Ecotech MP10 manual even says to use vinegar.
https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/MP10_QD_QSG.pdf
See page 3, Maintenance.
I use Distilled White Vinegar, which is only 5% acetic acid. I also soak the parts in a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar. I've been doing this for over a year and have not seen any problems.

I am aware of what is recommended.....and this issue doesn't happen quickly....all the magnets that started to swell and eventually break the plastic case open were more than five years old. At first I just thought it was the age, but Randy posted the following a while back, and that's what caused me to no longer use vinegar. Here's Randy's quote:

"I think the effect on plastic may be worse with vinegar than muriatic acid but it may depend on the plastic.

Vinegar can be in the form of acetic acid and that neutral molecule can enter plastic. Diluted muriatic acid won't have any neutral acidic molecules in it to enter plastic, so just exposes the outermost leading edge of plastic. So while the muriatic acid after dilution is a much stronger acid, i would not assume it is worse on plastics.

FWIW, I've used diluted muriatic acid for decades as have others, and I've not heard of cords being damaged, but I've also not inspected them closely."

 

[mcarroll]

What's the difference between vinegar and "acetic acid"? I'm guessing that's "1 molar" but not sure what that means in vinegar terms.

This PDF has the whole chem/material cross reference chart:
https://www.process-controls.com/Vissers_Sales/pdf/Chemical_Chart.pdf

Like the Cole Parmer tool, it also distinguishes between those two chemicals as well as specifying the stronger forms of 20%, 80% and Glacial acetic acid.

Vinegar gets at "A" on the review for plastics, but acetic acid get's a "D".

In fact, these are the only materials that score an "A" vs acetic acid:
MATERIAL COMPATIBILITY
Carbon graphite A - Excellent
Carpenter 20 A - Excellent
Ceramic Al203 A - Excellent
EPDM A - Excellent
Hastelloy-C® A - Excellent
Kel-F® A - Excellent
LDPE A2 - Excellent
NORYL® A - Excellent
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK) A - Excellent
PPS (Ryton®) A - Excellent
PTFE A - Excellent
Titanium A - Excellent

Vinegar's list is twice as long:
MATERIAL COMPATIBILITY
ABS plastic A - Excellent
Bronze A - Excellent
Carbon graphite A - Excellent
Ceramic Al203 A - Excellent
Ceramic magnet A - Excellent
CPVC A - Excellent
EPDM A - Excellent
Epoxy A - Excellent
Fluorocarbon (FKM) A - Excellent
Hastelloy-C® A - Excellent
Hypalon® A - Excellent
Kalrez A - Excellent
Kel-F® A - Excellent
LDPE A - Excellent
NORYL® A1 - Excellent
Nylon A - Excellent
Polycarbonate A2 - Excellent
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK) A - Excellent
Polypropylene A - Excellent
PPS (Ryton®) A - Excellent
PTFE A - Excellent
Silicone A - Excellent
stainless steel - 304 A - Excellent
stainless steel - 316 A - Excellent
Titanium A - Excellent
Tygon® A1 - Excellent
Viton® A - Excellent

Hydrochloric acid (20%) too:
MATERIAL COMPATIBILITY
ABS plastic A - Excellent
Carbon graphite A - Excellent
Ceramic magnet A - Excellent
ChemRaz (FFKM) A - Excellent
CPVC A2 - Excellent
EPDM A - Excellent
Epoxy A1 - Excellent
Fluorocarbon (FKM) A - Excellent
Hastelloy-C® A1 - Excellent
Hypalon® A - Excellent
Kalrez A - Excellent
Kel-F® A - Excellent
LDPE A2 - Excellent
Natural rubber A - Excellent
NORYL® A - Excellent
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK) A - Excellent
PTFE A - Excellent
PVC A2 - Excellent
PVDF (Kynar®) A - Excellent
Tygon® A1 - Excellent
Viton® A - Excellent

At 27, vinegar's "A" list is the longest, so it should be seen as "safest". Seems like we shouldn't conflate vinegar and acetic acid...apparently there's more to the story.

There's no perfect cleaner or acid....you have to look at the compatibility list and know what materials you're dealing with, which is often a mystery.

Substituting chemical soaks for elbow grease isn't the best trade-off, so I guess it's best to keep em as short as possible and make em diluted – and keep your maintenance toothbrush nearby for scrubbing.

 

[mcarroll]

@redfishbluefish it also reoccurred to me that LOTS if replacement wet sides were handed out/sold for those older pumps...I'm not sure vinegar is totally to blame on yours. In fact, your may have been extra long-lasting!

Folks dont seem to wear out the new wet sides at anything likerate in "the old days"...I suspect material improvements in modern wet sides.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Up until my magnets swelled up and cracked the plastic casing, I never had to replace a wetside. I would religiously soak the entire wetside in vinegar overnight. Now these were the pre-QD wetsides where you could take them completely apart, and Ecotech sold some replacement parts. I did have to change out two back plates where the ceramic bushing fit into...sheared the center plastic portion right off. I don't know why that happened, but at the time Ecotech sold just this back plate. I can't remember what I paid for these back plates, but I do remember commenting to myself the exorbitant amount of money I had to pay for this 25 cent piece of plastic. So yes, I had relatively good luck with wetsides.

Now here's my thing using vinegar....If Randy says it, and I have alternatives, I'm not going to take a chance in continuing to use vinegar. I don't like spending $300 on four wetsides. I also don't really follow the chemistry, but can only guess that acetic acid has poor ionization, making it a more neutral acid, that could allow it to penetrate plastic, while muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) readily ionizes, making it darn near impossible to get into the plastic.

So my bottom line is that maybe vinegar does, or maybe vinegar doesn't, impact the magnets. And that "maybe," with other available cleaning acids available, will have me never exposing my wetsides to vinegar.

I also think it's too early to comment on the life expectancy of the new QD's....they haven't been out that long. Now with all of that said, I'm a bit concerned about the apparent rust stain on the new QD drives were the ceramic shaft meets the back plate....what's going on there? And these are now wetsides that have seen no acid washing....just tapwater and a little scrubbing.

 

[n2585722]

I upgraded 2 MP10's to QD and had this issue with both. I ended up getting new wetside's to fix the issue on both.

 

[willfly4food]

I upgraded 2 MP10's to QD and had this issue with both. I ended up getting new wetside's to fix the issue on both.

Well hopefully that will fix it for me

 

[n2585722]

Well hopefully that will fix it for me

It worked on mine. The thing is one of the wetsides was fairly new, but was purchased before the QD came out. I got the QD upgrades right after they came out. So it has been a while.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I say this with ignorance, having maybe 10 MP10's, one that is QD, but thought the wetsides were the same with all MP10's. Am I wrong?

 

[willfly4food]

I say this with ignorance, having maybe 10 MP10's, one that is QD, but thought the wetsides were the same with all MP10's. Am I wrong?

They changed them up a bit

 

[n2585722]

I say this with ignorance, having maybe 10 MP10's, one that is QD, but thought the wetsides were the same with all MP10's. Am I wrong?

They only have one for sale. I can't say if anything was changed or not after the QD was released, but when I contacted Ecotech about the issue they suggested changing the wetside to fix the issue. It is just interesting that one of the wetsides was only a couple of months old at the time. I even put the original controller board back in and the wetsides would not fall off. They only came off with the QD controller board installed.

 

[Jax15]

Agree, mine has fallen off before and I couldn’t figure out why. There was no obvious calcium buildup, but when I gave it a thorough cleaning it snapped back on like new. It’s possible the algae on the blades was uneven, which caused a vibration when it was on. Whatever the reason, cleaning it worked. A soft toothbrush under running water was all I needed to clean.

 

[Benny Morosco]

My dry side was falling off as well but I never used the little stickers to attach the cord so I put that on to take the weight of the chord of the drys side head and it has not fallen off!

 

[willfly4food]

I put the new wet side in so we shall see if it falls off again...

 

[ca1ore]

I say this with ignorance, having maybe 10 MP10's, one that is QD, but thought the wetsides were the same with all MP10's. Am I wrong?

The MP10 wetsides have evolved a bit over time (mostly moving to a ceramic coated center spindle versus just titanium/SS). As far as I can recall, this happened prior to the QD drivers. FWIW, the dryside has changed as well with the new ones no longer backwards compatible with the white ES drivers.

 

[lancesmith1]

My dryside was lying in the floor when I came into my office this morning. It does not need cleaning. The current versions seem stiff to me and do not spin as freely. I guess I need to order a new DS.

 

[ca1ore]

There's an easy solution to that LOL