Multiple dwarf angels in one tank?

[i cant think]

That's great news if Potter's are starting to show up again though! I'm really surprised it sat there that long.

So am I! Especially as it was a Tank Break Down specimen that was already fat and eating everything! I figured that if it was there for Easter I’d use my store credit (It would’ve wiped out the entire price of £160/$200).

 

[Tori]

Ah I see. That was just a really good score then if it was from a tank break down. I'm hopeful that we start seeing them more again one day soon.

 

[LaloJ]

I was just about to comment exactly that potter's angelfish are supposedly not available yet, although I'm not sure what price they'll currently handle if harvesting in Hawaii reopens. Maybe there might be illegally caught fish, but I'm sure they would be expensive and not easy to find.

 

[LaloJ]

@Zionas I recently stumbled across an article on RB, trying to find information to remember where C.heraldi was focused within the complexes, and it was interesting to learn that aberrant yellow angelfish with black dorsal and anal fins (or also other colors), and that have been commonly handled as C.woodheadi, actually have more relationship with C.bicolor than with C.heraldi, even though you are practically seeing a C.heraldi painted with other colors.

 

[Devaji]

wow made it through all 19 pages. in 2 settings mind you...

OK so far all you dwarf angel experts out there. I am setting up a 200 gallon peaceful FOWLR with dims of 70.9x 30x 22 with a 75 gal. sump so 275 total volume minus rock of course.

the focus on this build is going to be angels and butterflies something I have wanted to do for 15 years now or so.

here is my proposed fish list:

large angels
Regal angelfish- captive bread
Majestic Angelfish

Dwarf angels:
Flame
Coral Beauty
Bicolor -maybe
(all introduced at the same time )



1-2 smaller wrasses


Large tang:
Blue/regal Tang OR power blue

smaller tang
1 zerbasoma yellow, Kole or purple

Butterflies:
Copperband
Yellow Longnose
Pearlscale
Latticed
Sunset
Raccoon


a big maybe but if I can find a marsh idol that is eating i would go for it.

OK I was worried about mixing 3 dwarfs but after reading this thread is nice to see others going it successfully.
but is 3 to few would I have better success with a higher #?

I do love the idea of a large angel in there wanted the emp. but felt it would get to big for the tank so thought the majestic would be a better choice?
but I could skip that and add a few more dwarfs to the mix. I do like the idea of more smaller fish anyway.
thoughts?

if I was to skip the Majestic I would like to add:
nox
eibli
flame back maybe?

also would like to know if the dwarfs would pick on the regal angel? I hear they come in tiny from Biota so maybe start with that 1st then 6 months down the road add the dwarfs at the same time or at least 2 batches depending on what QT method I decide to go with.


not looking to have an aggressive fish only here but I do like dwarf angels but there not a must either.
thoughts?

 

[Tori]

wow made it through all 19 pages. in 2 settings mind you...

OK so far all you dwarf angel experts out there. I am setting up a 200 gallon peaceful FOWLR with dims of 70.9x 30x 22 with a 75 gal. sump so 275 total volume minus rock of course.

the focus on this build is going to be angels and butterflies something I have wanted to do for 15 years now or so.

here is my proposed fish list:

large angels
Regal angelfish- captive bread
Majestic Angelfish

Dwarf angels:
Flame
Coral Beauty
Bicolor -maybe
(all introduced at the same time )



1-2 smaller wrasses


Large tang:
Blue/regal Tang OR power blue

smaller tang
1 zerbasoma yellow, Kole or purple

Butterflies:
Copperband
Yellow Longnose
Pearlscale
Latticed
Sunset
Raccoon


a big maybe but if I can find a marsh idol that is eating i would go for it.

OK I was worried about mixing 3 dwarfs but after reading this thread is nice to see others going it successfully.
but is 3 to few would I have better success with a higher #?

I do love the idea of a large angel in there wanted the emp. but felt it would get to big for the tank so thought the majestic would be a better choice?
but I could skip that and add a few more dwarfs to the mix. I do like the idea of more smaller fish anyway.
thoughts?

if I was to skip the Majestic I would like to add:
nox
eibli
flame back maybe?

also would like to know if the dwarfs would pick on the regal angel? I hear they come in tiny from Biota so maybe start with that 1st then 6 months down the road add the dwarfs at the same time or at least 2 batches depending on what QT method I decide to go with.


not looking to have an aggressive fish only here but I do like dwarf angels but there not a must either.
thoughts?

I'm definitely not an expert but I can try to add some opinions on the dwarf angels at least. I don't think 3 dwarf angels would be too few. I started with a Coral Beauty, added two flamebacks about a month later and then added a flame angel maybe a couple months after that. I had those four together for about a year after that I think, but I added a cherub angel inn there at some point. After that I added more and I've been at 11 dwarf angels for about three months now since that last one went in and it seems like the more the merrier. There's usually more aggression when first adding new additions as they re-establish the hierarchy. This is in a Waterbox 130 so smaller dimensions than what you're looking at. I've never stocked large angels, tangs, or butterflies so I don't really have anything to add there but your potential stock list looks pretty awesome so far to me.

 

[Devaji]

I'm definitely not an expert but I can try to add some opinions on the dwarf angels at least. I don't think 3 dwarf angels would be too few. I started with a Coral Beauty, added two flamebacks about a month later and then added a flame angel maybe a couple months after that. I had those four together for about a year after that I think, but I added a cherub angel inn there at some point. After that I added more and I've been at 11 dwarf angels for about three months now since that last one went in and it seems like the more the merrier. There's usually more aggression when first adding new additions as they re-establish the hierarchy. This is in a Waterbox 130 so smaller dimensions than what you're looking at. I've never stocked large angels, tangs, or butterflies so I don't really have anything to add there but your potential stock list looks pretty awesome so far to me.

thanks for your feedback!
I do like the stocking list but the more I think about it i like the idea of more Dwarfs VS the larger angel. however that means more fish to ship and get through QT...uggg haha

also worried I might get board the a fish only a year or two down the rd.

I am thinking like you are the more Dwarf angels the better/less aggression or more spread out anyway.

so I am thinking ( in order of most wanted )
flame
coral beauty
ebili
nox
flame back

so only 6 in a pretty large tank. not quite your 11 but who knows might try pairs some day.

in a perfect world I could add them all at once.

for you guys that QTed them together how did you do it in the same tank? did you add dividers?
or just let them work it out?

 

[Tori]

thanks for your feedback!
I do like the stocking list but the more I think about it i like the idea of more Dwarfs VS the larger angel. however that means more fish to ship and get through QT...uggg haha

also worried I might get board the a fish only a year or two down the rd.

I am thinking like you are the more Dwarf angels the better/less aggression or more spread out anyway.

so I am thinking ( in order of most wanted )
flame
coral beauty
ebili
nox
flame back

so only 6 in a pretty large tank. not quite your 11 but who knows might try pairs some day.

in a perfect world I could add them all at once.

for you guys that QTed them together how did you do it in the same tank? did you add dividers?
or just let them work it out?

I bought my cherub angel as a pair and tried acclimating them together but only one survived the night. Tank dividers are probably a good idea in a small qt.
I mostly just try to buy pre-quarantined or tank conditioned nowadays.

 

[LaloJ]

thanks for your feedback!
I do like the stocking list but the more I think about it i like the idea of more Dwarfs VS the larger angel. however that means more fish to ship and get through QT...uggg haha

also worried I might get board the a fish only a year or two down the rd.

I am thinking like you are the more Dwarf angels the better/less aggression or more spread out anyway.

so I am thinking ( in order of most wanted )
flame
coral beauty
ebili
nox
flame back

so only 6 in a pretty large tank. not quite your 11 but who knows might try pairs some day.

in a perfect world I could add them all at once.

for you guys that QTed them together how did you do it in the same tank? did you add dividers?
or just let them work it out?

200 gallons seems to be a pretty decent tank size for your purpose, you can add a couple of large angelfish with no problem and if you have in mind adding flame angelfish on a regular basis I've read that most of them get pretty aggressive with incoming dwarf angelfish tank after him so you can probably consider a plan to tank him to lessen his aggression it's either that or you can have a model citizen who is peaceful. As far as doing qt for multiple fish you can have several in one system but with a decent sized tank and with divisions so the guys can observe each other but not interact with each other.
I have little experience keeping large angelfish, but they tend to be more susceptible to stress and disease, that's for sure, so if regal angelfish are in your plans, you should bet on a healthy specimen from the start before putting it in your qt tank. About butterflies you want to keep, CBB and Longnose seem to be the most fragile on your wish list, they are all peaceful fish but make no mistake, when planning a few butterflies inside the tank aggression between them is usually overlooked which usually it can happen, get the most delicate and fragile fish first, and that are slower to adapt and feed.

 

[Devaji]

200 gallons seems to be a pretty decent tank size for your purpose, you can add a couple of large angelfish with no problem and if you have in mind adding flame angelfish on a regular basis I've read that most of them get pretty aggressive with incoming dwarf angelfish tank after him so you can probably consider a plan to tank him to lessen his aggression it's either that or you can have a model citizen who is peaceful. As far as doing qt for multiple fish you can have several in one system but with a decent sized tank and with divisions so the guys can observe each other but not interact with each other.
I have little experience keeping large angelfish, but they tend to be more susceptible to stress and disease, that's for sure, so if regal angelfish are in your plans, you should bet on a healthy specimen from the start before putting it in your qt tank. About butterflies you want to keep, CBB and Longnose seem to be the most fragile on your wish list, they are all peaceful fish but make no mistake, when planning a few butterflies inside the tank aggression between them is usually overlooked which usually it can happen, get the most delicate and fragile fish first, and that are slower to adapt and feed.

yes 200 is a nice size tank for this, almost to small for a fish only and with the price of corals these days to big for a reef..haha

if I QT the copper way I will use 40brs so I can QT a few at a time. but if i do HTTM prob will use 20 gal. tanks. I have yet to decide yet. I see pros & cons to both approaches.

I think 6 Dwarf angels would look nice in this tank with one larger Regal would look sweet.

I agree the CBB and long nose are pretty fragile fish. I'll prob. buy the CBB & maybe both pre QTed so I can get them in 1st. then the CB regal. then go from there.

wish all fish would just along and be nice to each other...oh and people too!

 

[Devaji]

I bought my cherub angel as a pair and tried acclimating them together but only one survived the night. Tank dividers are probably a good idea in a small qt.
I mostly just try to buy pre-quarantined or tank conditioned nowadays.

that was my orginal plan but keeping to your stocking plan and order is alot harder. I dont really have a LFS with a 3hrs drive so everything for the tanks are shipped in. I do know of 3 trusted QT vendors one will tank request one will not and not sure about the other.

but man I tell you the more I think about QTing the more i think i'll just pony up for the qted options. if I can get a few at a time for a reasonable price.

 

[Tori]

that was my orginal plan but keeping to your stocking plan and order is alot harder. I dont really have a LFS with a 3hrs drive so everything for the tanks are shipped in. I do know of 3 trusted QT vendors one will tank request one will not and not sure about the other.

but man I tell you the more I think about QTing the more i think i'll just pony up for the qted options. if I can get a few at a time for a reasonable price.

Yeah I hear you, the prices are definitely much higher so it can be a little hard to swallow. I think I paid close to $200 just for the flame angel not including shipping if I remember correctly. Really seems like a lot considering you can probably find them closer $75 usually. After having fish die in qt it seems worth it to me though.

 

[Devaji]

Yeah I hear you, the prices are definitely much higher so it can be a little hard to swallow. I think I paid close to $200 just for the flame angel not including shipping if I remember correctly. Really seems like a lot considering you can probably find them closer $75 usually. After having fish die in qt it seems worth it to me though.

yup I emailed a QT vendor about requesting fish. curious to see what they say.

 

[LaloJ]

that was my orginal plan but keeping to your stocking plan and order is alot harder. I dont really have a LFS with a 3hrs drive so everything for the tanks are shipped in. I do know of 3 trusted QT vendors one will tank request one will not and not sure about the other.

but man I tell you the more I think about QTing the more i think i'll just pony up for the qted options. if I can get a few at a time for a reasonable price.

A few years ago I would have highly recommended you buy fish from the diver's den in LA, however things have changed a lot since Kevin Kohen departure, and I'm not the only one who thinks so; LADD really was amazing.
A couple of days ago I was reading an article by Matt Pedersen, about coralivore butterflies, and he mentioned something quite interesting, since we normally see these fish as completely calm and peaceful fishes, but you would be surprised how aggressive a butterfly can be with its similars. As far as I know, the Roaops complex is the most aggressive.

 

[reefsamurai]

Alright I think I'm up to a blistering 1 post a month currently! Just been busy and not a lot going on here as work(I'm in kitchens and bath) is ramping up for summer.

I don't remember if I posted about this but I fixed the flow issue we were having. Apparently there was several hermit crabs shells stuck in one of the drain tubes. How they climbed up and into a durso return is beyond me. I cut that to make an open top stand pipe and replumbed the whole line to incorporate 45° bends with a ball valve shut off. I'm now running full blown 2k gph on the return pump whereas before(even without crabby patties in the way) I barely got 800gph returns. The tank is a lot clearer and everything is polyp extended and waving happily in the flow.

Now for the meat and why you come to this thread. We have a new angel as of today! I walked in to the LFS to get RO(yes still no personal water system) and the owner let me know he had a few angels in. A really small juvi imperator, a tiny cherub and a half black. Obviously bullseye is the resident imperator and the cherub had the beginnings of ich. The half black was in the medicated tanks and looked awesome so it came home with us. Now starts the QT time. Should be going in sometime in June.

On a side note the new nero 7 powerheads are out and I'm seriously thinking about upgrading all three of mine to this but running them on high pulse for standing waves. Angel money or powerheads money...

 

[LaloJ]

Alright I think I'm up to a blistering 1 post a month currently! Just been busy and not a lot going on here as work(I'm in kitchens and bath) is ramping up for summer.

I don't remember if I posted about this but I fixed the flow issue we were having. Apparently there was several hermit crabs shells stuck in one of the drain tubes. How they climbed up and into a durso return is beyond me. I cut that to make an open top stand pipe and replumbed the whole line to incorporate 45° bends with a ball valve shut off. I'm now running full blown 2k gph on the return pump whereas before(even without crabby patties in the way) I barely got 800gph returns. The tank is a lot clearer and everything is polyp extended and waving happily in the flow.

Now for the meat and why you come to this thread. We have a new angel as of today! I walked in to the LFS to get RO(yes still no personal water system) and the owner let me know he had a few angels in. A really small juvi imperator, a tiny cherub and a half black. Obviously bullseye is the resident imperator and the cherub had the beginnings of ich. The half black was in the medicated tanks and looked awesome so it came home with us. Now starts the QT time. Should be going in sometime in June.

On a side note the new nero 7 powerheads are out and I'm seriously thinking about upgrading all three of mine to this but running them on high pulse for standing waves. Angel money or powerheads money...

Beautiful fish. Are you medicating in the qt tank, or is it working as an observation tank?

 

[reefsamurai]

Currently is an observation process but if needed I will medicate. It's the method I've used for the last 4 inhabitants. That and aside from one, they have all come from the same shop that medicates the angel tanks.

 

[Tori]

Currently is an observation process but if needed I will medicate. It's the method I've used for the last 4 inhabitants. That and aside from one, they have all come from the same shop that medicates the angel tanks.

How's everyone doing? Did they make it into the main display yet? Interested to see how they all get along with the new additions.

 

[reefsamurai]

How's everyone doing? Did they make it into the main display yet? Interested to see how they all get along with the new additions.

Half Black won't be out of QT till some time in June. That is unless I come up on some other fish to stick in QT and it will restart the process.

Going forward the fish list will include a rabbit to combat the bubble algae that never dies. Aside from that, I'm hoping to find a nox, false lemon/heralds, a rusty and possibly a venustus. Wife wants flames or flamebacks and I'm still interested in multicolors if they truly do survive long-term outside of deep water. Eventually I'll look at a golden or flagfin for the larger angels.

If anyone sees a blue potters though, I'll buy that!

 

[zoomonster]

Half Black won't be out of QT till some time in June. That is unless I come up on some other fish to stick in QT and it will restart the process.

Going forward the fish list will include a rabbit to combat the bubble algae that never dies. Aside from that, I'm hoping to find a nox, false lemon/heralds, a rusty and possibly a venustus. Wife wants flames or flamebacks and I'm still interested in multicolors if they truly do survive long-term outside of deep water. Eventually I'll look at a golden or flagfin for the larger angels.

If anyone sees a blue potters though, I'll buy that!

Just saw aquacultured Potters at $900 and I'll pass. I currently have flame, flameback, bicolor, multicolor, orange peel and they do well together in a mixed reef. I'm on my second multicolor in 9 years so yes, they have done pretty well for me. I keep seeing people wanting coral beauties. They have always ended up being aggressive problem fish and one that just wouldn't die killed a golden on me. I've also kept Potter's and really want another at far less than $900. I think I paid $80 for the Hawaiin I had for years.