My Battle with Dinoflagellates

[ScottB]

@ScottB - I have a question regarding dosing nitrate and phosphate to battle dinoflagellates:

Why is dosing recommended over simply feeding more often? Even though I am currently going through a fallow period, couldn't I achieve the same result by feeding my tank cubes of frozen foods? It seems that would have the added benefit of feeding my hermit crabs, snails, and other invertebrates. Obviously, I would have to find the right balance of feeding, but I can't help but think it would provide my system with more diverse nutrition.

A fair question for sure. I did both (dosing and heavy feeding) throughout treatment as I could not dump in enough food to get either nutrient consistently in range without dosing. I had too many valuable acropora to take the chance of bouncing around zero. To this day I am still dosing, but less and less each week.

 

[ScottB]

Very interested to see how this works for you. I have a 114w UV in my sump. I also have a spare 25w and a spare 57w ballast. Just ordered a 57w bulb to convert the 25w to a 57w (same housing) and I'm going to run it in my DT like you, with about 1000gph flow.

It is suggested you slow the flow down to allow as much contact time as possible without overheating the bulb.

 

[zalick]

It is suggested you slow the flow down to allow as much contact time as possible without overheating the bulb.

Any idea how fast dinos reproduce? 1000gph through a 57w will yield 90,000 μw/cm².

 

[ScottB]

Any idea how fast dinos reproduce? 1000gph through a 57w will yield 90,000 μw/cm².

No idea. I am sure it is dependent upon how happy they are feeling in your tank environment. I cannot fathom how one would go about measuring and controlling for environmental conditions, but can imagine some poor Marine Bio grad student has tried.

I can see hundreds of them in a drop of water on a microscope slide when in bloom.

 

[PicassoDan]

Hey Nick - following along. I also have Ostreopsis, identified last night under a microscope and using Jonathan Begnaud's ID guide. They're quite interesting to watch as they spin and swim around. But I'm more interested in them being dead obviously...lol.
Let us know how that UV system is working.

 

[SCHAULJ]

Ready to throw in the towel from Dinos

Great news. That @brandon429 guy knows a thing or two. I suspect they can't take hold of anything due to the current. But they are still there and thus not beaten, at least not yet. Keeping them in the water column will make UV more effective though. If this strategy were maintained long...

www.reef2reef.com

The method is at that link. I haven't tried it, but I might. Still currently dosing silicate and MB7.

Looking at the instructions they say to aerate and also turn off skimmer, I don't see why you couldn't just take the skimmer cup off and let it overflow a bit which accomplishes both.

Thats what I was wondering too.. Is item #2 Toms aqualifter just a standard air pump? Couldn't I just remove the skimmer cup for extra aeration? Also would brightwells microbacter7 be a good alternative to ATM colony?

 

[cedwards04]

Thats what I was wondering too.. Is item #2 Toms aqualifter just a standard air pump? Couldn't I just remove the skimmer cup for extra aeration? Also would brightwells microbacter7 be a good alternative to ATM colony?

That is the method I just tried. I was dino free for about 4-5 days after it was finished. I now have something peeking its ugly head back up on my sand bed. Cant tell for sure that it is dinos again, trying to get my hands on a microscope to verify.

 

[Alexreefer]

Thats what I was wondering too.. Is item #2 Toms aqualifter just a standard air pump? Couldn't I just remove the skimmer cup for extra aeration? Also would brightwells microbacter7 be a good alternative to ATM colony?

That is my thread, I have been battling Amphidinium Dinos since June. I have not done elegance corals way but I do have some tips.
1. The aqualifter is used to bring fresh air from the outside, the lowe CO air is better for the skimmer.
2. As for bottled bac, it does not matter what you use as long as it has the denitrifying bacteria.
If you have any other questions let me know.

 

[LegendaryCG]

That is my thread, I have been battling Amphidinium Dinos since June. I have not done elegance corals way but I do have some tips.
1. The aqualifter is used to bring fresh air from the outside, the lowe CO air is better for the skimmer.
2. As for bottled bac, it does not matter what you use as long as it has the denitrifying bacteria.
If you have any other questions let me know.

I believe microbacter7 might have some counterproductive strains for this situation. Its got some similar to vibrant in included in it so I would use caution.

 

[Alexreefer]

I believe microbacter7 might have some counterproductive strains for this situation. Its got some similar to vibrant in included in it so I would use caution.

Hmm interesting. Can explain a bit more?

 

[LegendaryCG]

This is what Brightwell says about it:

Benefits
1. Rapid reduction of organic carbon, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate.
2. Digestion of uneaten/undigested food, excreta, detritus, and other latent organic material, resulting in cleaner and healthier aquarium substrate
3. Reduction of organic compounds into nutrients that encourage the growth of photosynthetic organisms
4. Greatly-reduced hydrogen sulfide production.
5. Increase in dissolved oxygen concentration.
6. Limits availability of pre-existing phosphate to undesirable forms of algae and cyanobacteria.
7. Increased water clarity.


Reducing Nitrate and phosphate while having a dino episode is generally considered to be counterproductive.

 

[Alexreefer]

This is what Brightwell says about it:

Benefits
1. Rapid reduction of organic carbon, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate.
2. Digestion of uneaten/undigested food, excreta, detritus, and other latent organic material, resulting in cleaner and healthier aquarium substrate
3. Reduction of organic compounds into nutrients that encourage the growth of photosynthetic organisms
4. Greatly-reduced hydrogen sulfide production.
5. Increase in dissolved oxygen concentration.
6. Limits availability of pre-existing phosphate to undesirable forms of algae and cyanobacteria.
7. Increased water clarity.


Reducing Nitrate and phosphate while having a dino episode is generally considered to be counterproductive.

Wouldn't any bottled bac remove nutrients no matter what?

 

[LegendaryCG]

Yes you want it to out compete the dinos but you dont want the enviroment to favor the dinos. Im not saying dont use it, just be cautious.

 

[piranhaman00]

My system is 220 ish gallons, nutrients at 10/.1 but dinos keep coming back. I have two pentair 40 watt UV hard plumbed on each return but only turning over about 5x an hour. I’m assuming/hoping that this is just isn’t enough for dinos. I installed this 75 watt jebao with 1200ish gph in the display and turkey bastor the sand bed and all rocks every night. After two days they are barely making an appearance if at all. I am going to continue this for 60 days and hopefully they will then be gone for good

good luck!

 

[ScottB]

My system is 220 ish gallons, nutrients at 10/.1 but dinos keep coming back. I have two pentair 40 watt UV hard plumbed on each return but only turning over about 5x an hour. I’m assuming/hoping that this is just isn’t enough for dinos. I installed this 75 watt jebao with 1200ish gph in the display and turkey bastor the sand bed and all rocks every night. After two days they are barely making an appearance if at all. I am going to continue this for 60 days and hopefully they will then be gone for good

good luck!

While I hate hanging UV on the display it really does seem to make a difference. Hang in there.

 

[nickkohrn]

I was looking at my corals last week, and I noticed that my Montipora digitata had a little tissue missing, so I put it under the microscope. What I saw appears to be Ostreopsis, which you can see in the image below.

Fortunately, I have not seen other signs of them in my system. In fact, I have algae and cyanobacteria appearing, which I welcome. This is the first time in nearly two months that I have seen algae on my glass. After watching the dinoflagellates get beaten back by the UV sterilizer, I began feeding amino acids and Reef-Roids, which I understand is advised against, but I wanted to get some extra nutrition into the system to promote algae growth.

I ordered sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate from Loudwolf, which I used to make stock solutions for dosing. I am in the process of completing plumbing on my new system before moving everything (corals and bio-media) over. Once completed, I will hook up a doser to administer both solutions in the hopes of maintaining detectable levels of nitrate and phosphate.

In the meantime, I am going to continue observing everything. It seems that I can relax a bit and not feel disgusted when looking at my corals.

 

[ScottB]

Good update. Glad you made your way through the bloom. I am not surprised at all that you can find some ostreopsis within a scraping. I have been visually clear for at least 8 weeks but a scrape of the glass today under my scope would show there are some lingering. And yeah I too just started back with some aminos but going super slow. They brought a small relapse awhile back. 'Roids never seem to though.

 

[bdare]

It is suggested you slow the flow down to allow as much contact time as possible without overheating the bulb.

Soo... curious on this as I'm considering the same UV sterilizer. According to the stats on the BRS site the suggested flow rate for saltwater sterilization is ~1000 gph and the unit is rated for over 300 gallons.

57 Watt Classic UV Sterilizer - Black Body

Aqua Ultraviolet UV Sterilizers will eradicate algae, bacteria, and protozoa without any harmful chemicals or additives! UV lamps emit a wavelength that will alter and disrupt the DNA or RNA of single-celled organisms. Combining the UV lamp into a large housing allows for maximum contact time...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[ScottB]

Soo... curious on this as I'm considering the same UV sterilizer. According to the stats on the BRS site the suggested flow rate for saltwater sterilization is ~1000 gph and the unit is rated for over 300 gallons.

57 Watt Classic UV Sterilizer - Black Body

Aqua Ultraviolet UV Sterilizers will eradicate algae, bacteria, and protozoa without any harmful chemicals or additives! UV lamps emit a wavelength that will alter and disrupt the DNA or RNA of single-celled organisms. Combining the UV lamp into a large housing allows for maximum contact time...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Aqua UV make a solid sterilizer, no doubt about that. I wish they weren't so darn expensive. And large.

As to size & flow rate it all depends on what you are trying to kill or sterilize, AND what you wish to save. Algae is easy. Parasites can vary. Even dinos vary according to species I am sure. Some are armored, others not so much.

As to the recommended flow & wattage for dinos, I just go by the consensus arrived at here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

Tough to argue with the successes achieved through trial and error (despair).

1 watt per 3 gallons
3-4 X turnover or as slow as manufacturer allows (so the bulb stays cool).

Once you are "free" of dinos, reset the flow rate to achieve your new objectives. Or pull it altogether.

 

[Marc2952]

My system is a 100-gallon bare-bottomed SPS grow-out system, and it is filtered by a Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 skimmer and an 8"x8"x4" MarinePure plate. The system's nitrates hover around 8ppm, and phosphates hover between 0.03ppm and 0.1ppm, but I do not have algae anywhere, which is strange. My photoperiod is from 3:00 PM to 9:00 PM, and it is powered by a six-bulb ATI SunPower with a bulb combination of three ATI Blue Plus bulbs and three ATI Coral Plus bulbs. Dosing consists of ESV B-Ionic three-part, AcroPower, and CoralAmino, but I have temporarily discontinued the dosing of amino acids.

In the recent couple of weeks, I have noticed a stringy, brown, substance covering the walls of the display tank, which I believe are dinoflagellates. I ordered a microscope, which I will receive today, in hopes of identifying the species. It doesn't have gas bubbles trapped within the strands, which seems to be typical of dinoflagellates. I recently performed a three-day blackout, but the substance returned within a day. In the evenings, I scrape the substance off of the walls, but it reappears overnight, even with the lights off—I wake to long strings on the walls hours before the lights come on.

I have read through Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?, but there's just so much information, anecdotes, and shared experiences that make me feel a bit overwhelmed. So, I want to let this thread serve as the documentation of my battle.

Below, you can see what the substance looks like as it covers the walls and corals.

I just went through dinos myself 3 days after blackout now and dont see nothing, has your phosphates been dropping a ton now? I ive been having to dose 30ml of neophos on my 75 gallon just to keep it above 0.