My progress on Dinoflagellates and what is working

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Hello,

My largest tank, 75 gallons, 105 gallons system total, had a breakout of dinos a couple of weeks ago. This is something I had never dealt with before. My best guess is that it came in from a frag of questionable source I had recently purchased.

At first I thought it was hair algae and assumed it would either take care of itself or my snails would deal with it. That was mistake #1.

I then increased the lighting period on my refugium so the chaeto would grow faster, thus eating up the rest of the phosphates and nitrates in the tank. Mind you, this tank only has one fish in it, a small yellow & purple coris wrasse. This was mistake #2.

When the hair algae didn't recede and in fact kept spreading, I finally tested my phosphates and nitrates. They were both zero, which I thought was wildly inaccurate so I brought it to a LFS and their testing came back the same. It was a low range phosphate test. I then decided to keep the lighting schedule the same to see if it took care of itself. Mistake #3.

A few days later I noticed the dreaded bubbles on the algae, and the stringy junk all over a few of my LPS, and a particular Stylo that had zero polyp extension.

So, I tried the blackout method. 72 hours. That helped the problem for about 8 hours. I then started targeting patches of it with hydrogen peroxide in an oral syringe. Approximately 25-35ml per day. That definitely killed a good bit of them but they were still growing back, albeit at a slower pace.

I then combined this with a blackout for 48 hours, targeting with H2O2 twice a day. After 48 hours, the majority was gone, and the growth rate had nearly come to a stop.

Slowly I returned to my regular lighting schedule, and wouldn't ya know it, the GD dinos were back after 4 days of seeing none of them.

So I went nuclear on this junk. Took out 3 of the rocks it was on, soaked them in peroxide. Then returned one to the tank, cut the lights, targeted the sand bed with 50ml of peroxide. Cut the lights, laid blankets over the tank. Dosed 60ml of SeaChem pristine.

Kept the blankets on the tank for 3 days, dosing 40-50ml of peroxide per day, broadcasting it since I didn't want to remove the blankets to target it.

It has been 7 days since I've taken the blankets off, and no sign of them. None. I'm continuing a 20ml peroxide dose per day, and I am continuing to add pristine.

No coral was harmed during this, except a hammer coral that I wacked with the turkey baster while blowing the dinos off of it. That lost some polyps but seems to be okay.

I'll update if there are any changes. I just wanted to share what I did that seemed to help. I wish I could pinpoint exactly what it was that did it, but it may have just been all of the above.
 
following
 
Lol all this work. Just let it run its course and check your nutrient input/output.

You can turn the lights off 100 times and put your fish in the solitary confinement of absolute darkness for multiple days, but the algea is just gonna come back, it always will. I dont think fish like being in the dark like that for more than a day and I wouldnt put my fish through it.

Contrary to popular aquarium beleif, algea is not a bad thing. Its doing its job at taking up nutrients and cleaning your tank because there is a detritus/flow/nutrient issue. Tossing in hydrogen peroxide isnt going to fix any of those problems. Oh, and its going to take a couple weeks for the algea to go away.

You started out with the right mindset of small changes and waiting for reactions, but now your trying to get instant results by cleaning rocks and putting your tank into the abyss of darkness.

These practices dont work and need to stop being recomended as a instant cure, or a cure at all. Pouring stuff into your tank and expecting instant results is contrary to the point of the entire hobby, which is patience and small changes over the course of many weeks and waiting to see results.

Also, the dinos have been in your tank since day 1. They are just now showing up in larger numbers because of the flow/nutrient/detritus issue.
 
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Hello,

My largest tank, 75 gallons, 105 gallons system total, had a breakout of dinos a couple of weeks ago. This is something I had never dealt with before. My best guess is that it came in from a frag of questionable source I had recently purchased.

At first I thought it was hair algae and assumed it would either take care of itself or my snails would deal with it. That was mistake #1.

I then increased the lighting period on my refugium so the chaeto would grow faster, thus eating up the rest of the phosphates and nitrates in the tank. Mind you, this tank only has one fish in it, a small yellow & purple coris wrasse. This was mistake #2.

When the hair algae didn't recede and in fact kept spreading, I finally tested my phosphates and nitrates. They were both zero, which I thought was wildly inaccurate so I brought it to a LFS and their testing came back the same. It was a low range phosphate test. I then decided to keep the lighting schedule the same to see if it took care of itself. Mistake #3.

A few days later I noticed the dreaded bubbles on the algae, and the stringy junk all over a few of my LPS, and a particular Stylo that had zero polyp extension.

So, I tried the blackout method. 72 hours. That helped the problem for about 8 hours. I then started targeting patches of it with hydrogen peroxide in an oral syringe. Approximately 25-35ml per day. That definitely killed a good bit of them but they were still growing back, albeit at a slower pace.

I then combined this with a blackout for 48 hours, targeting with H2O2 twice a day. After 48 hours, the majority was gone, and the growth rate had nearly come to a stop.

Slowly I returned to my regular lighting schedule, and wouldn't ya know it, the GD dinos were back after 4 days of seeing none of them.

So I went nuclear on this junk. Took out 3 of the rocks it was on, soaked them in peroxide. Then returned one to the tank, cut the lights, targeted the sand bed with 50ml of peroxide. Cut the lights, laid blankets over the tank. Dosed 60ml of SeaChem pristine.

Kept the blankets on the tank for 3 days, dosing 40-50ml of peroxide per day, broadcasting it since I didn't want to remove the blankets to target it.

It has been 7 days since I've taken the blankets off, and no sign of them. None. I'm continuing a 20ml peroxide dose per day, and I am continuing to add pristine.

No coral was harmed during this, except a hammer coral that I wacked with the turkey baster while blowing the dinos off of it. That lost some polyps but seems to be okay.

I'll update if there are any changes. I just wanted to share what I did that seemed to help. I wish I could pinpoint exactly what it was that did it, but it may have just been all of the above.
Hmmmm what are your nutrient levels?

The whole dark period / nuking thing is not a solution IMO
 
Lol all this work. Just let it run its course and check your nutrient input/output.

You can turn the lights off 100 times and put your fish in the solitary confinement of absolute darkness for multiple days, but the algea is just gonna come back, it always will. I dont think fish like being in the dark like that for more than a day and I wouldnt put my fish through it.

Contrary to popular aquarium beleif, algea is not a bad thing. Its doing its job at taking up nutrients and cleaning your tank because there is a detritus/flow/nutrient issue. Tossing in hydrogen peroxide isnt going to fix any of those problems. Oh, and its going to take a couple weeks for the algea to go away.

You started out with the right mindset of small changes and waiting for reactions, but now your trying to get instant results by cleaning rocks and putting your tank into the abyss of darkness.

These practices dont work and need to stop being recomended as a instant cure, or a cure at all. Pouring stuff into your tank and expecting instant results is contrary to the point of the entire hobby, which is patience and small changes over the course of many weeks and waiting to see results.

Also, the dinos have been in your tank since day 1. They are just now showing up in larger numbers because of the flow/nutrient/detritus issue.
Yeah - dinos aren't just some hair algae issue. They smother coral and release toxins when they die. They cannot be allowed to "run their course" when there is 5k worth of coral in the tank.
 
Starving your 5k worth of corals of light and pouring hydrogen peroxide into the tank is a fools game. All you need to do is address your flow/detritus/nutrient issue.

If that is true that they release toxins when they die, why would you try killing them all at once with peroxide and darkness. Wouldnt that make a huge bomb of dead dino toxins? Let them die off slowly when you fix the real issue.
 
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Hmmmm what are your nutrient levels?

The whole dark period / nuking thing is not a solution IMO
Phosphate hit zero, I'm not sure what nitrates were but they are 3ppm now and phosphate is .01 at last check. My guess is they came in off a frag that I didn't dip. I forgot. I highly doubt it has always been in the tank because it was started from dry rock, nothing live at all.
 
Phosphate hit zero, I'm not sure what nitrates were but they are 3ppm now and phosphate is .01 at last check. My guess is they came in off a frag that I didn't dip. I forgot. I highly doubt it has always been in the tank because it was started from dry rock, nothing live at all.
As far as I know, there is no dip to prevent dinos from hitchhiking into your tank.
 
Starving your 5k worth of corals of light and pouring hydrogen peroxide into the tank is a lot more risky when all you need to do is address your flow/detritus/nutrient issue.

Why would you try killing them all at once with peroxide and darkness, if they release toxins when they die. Wouldnt that make a huge bomb of dead dino toxins? Let them die off slowly when you fix the real issue.

Almost every single coral hosts a population of dinos in addition to zooxanthellae. For you to have had 0 dinos even without adding any corals, is completely impossible. You're facing a detritus and nutrient issue.
I had a nutrient issue, yeah. I fixed it and it came back. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with dinos, but it isn't as easy as you make it sound. Regardless, what's done is done. The dinos are gone, the issue that caused them in the first place is no longer.
 
I had a nutrient issue, yeah. I fixed it and it came back. I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with dinos, but it isn't as easy as you make it sound. Regardless, what's done is done. The dinos are gone, the issue that caused them in the first place is no longer.

Every single person whos ever had a tank has dealt with dinos. Its physically impossible to not have them. They are literally everywhere.

Almost every single coral hosts a population of dinos in addition to zooxanthellae. For you to have had 0 dinos even without adding any corals, is completely impossible. You were and probably still are facing a detritus and nutrient issue.

The goal with every type of algea is to keep it under control. You can never completely eliminate an algea like dinos or gha from your tank. The mentality of the entire internet is that algeas randomly infect your tank and you have to kill it as soon as possible and thats just not true. I'd rather not lead the guy reading this in 5 years to believe that pouring things into his tank and turning off his lights for instant gratification is going to help him control his algea.
 
Every single person whos ever had a tank has dealt with dinos. Its physically impossible to not have them. They are literally everywhere.

Almost every single coral hosts a population of dinos in addition to zooxanthellae. For you to have had 0 dinos even without adding any corals, is completely impossible. You were and still are facing a detritus and nutrient issue.

The goal with every type of algea is to keep it under control. You can never completely eliminate an algea from your tank.
As I said, the nutrient issue is under control and fixed. I only have one fish who is certainly not overfed. My flow is more than adequate, there are zero dead spots in the DT or sump.

You seem to imply that I don't know what I'm doing - not only have I been doing this for a very long time, in fact I studied this in school, I've certainly never had a dino infestation.

I'm going to go ahead and quit replying to you now - please follow along for updates to the status over the next few weeks if you wish.
 
As I said, the nutrient issue is under control and fixed. I only have one fish who is certainly not overfed. My flow is more than adequate, there are zero dead spots in the DT or sump.

You seem to imply that I don't know what I'm doing - not only have I been doing this for a very long time, in fact I studied this in school, I've certainly never had a dino infestation.

I'm going to go ahead and quit replying to you now - please follow along for updates to the status over the next few weeks if you wish.
For other thread readers I'll reiterate what @Fish_Sticks said. It's impossible, even nonsensical, to believe you can have a tank without it being exposed to some population of nuisance algae. The trick is not letting it get out of control. For those dealing with dinos I would refer you to the Sticky on dinos. It's very lengthy but full of great information.
 
For other thread readers I'll reiterate what @Fish_Sticks said. It's impossible, even nonsensical, to believe you can have a tank without it being exposed to some population of nuisance algae. The trick is not letting it get out of control. For those dealing with dinos I would refer you to the Sticky on dinos. It's very lengthy but full of great information.
Definitely - that thread was very helpful for me. You just have to get through around 3000 posts or so.
 
Another great thing about this hobby. People who have been doing things for a long time must be doing them correctly, that is entirely false.
There are a couple million people and a few thousand LFS who have been doing things with false assumptions and doing things incorrectly for a very very long time. Your lifespan in the hobby has no effect on if you do things correctly and only makes your potential for improvement suffer because of pride. If that LFS owner tells another customer to cycle their tank with live fish because hes been doing this since the 1960s and it works, I will not bury myself back in my fish room and keep to my own tank because they are older than I am. I'll tell them to pull their head out of their butt and get with the times.

If you post a thread on the forums about dinos and what works, dont be surprised when I chime in and tell you that you might be doing things wrong. Thats what the point of the thread is. Dont make a thread if you dont want feedback. I'll post on every thread on the forums so that the poor guy reading this in 5 years doesnt think turning off his lights and pouring things into his tank is going to work or is even ethically correct in a hobby based entirely around patience; based entirely around the most non instant and slowest changing thing in the world, the ocean.
 
Another great thing about this hobby. People who have been doing things for a long time must be doing them correctly, that is entirely false.
There are a couple hundred million people and a few thousand LFS who have been doing things with false assumptions and doing things incorrectly for a very very long time. Your lifespan in the hobby has no effect on if you do things correctly and only makes your potential for improvement suffer because of pride.

If you post a thread on the forums about dinos and what works, dont be surprised when I chime in and tell you that you might be doing things wrong. Thats what the point of the thread is. Dont make a thread if you dont want feedback. I'll post on every thread on the forums so that the poor guy reading this in 5 years doesnt think turning off his lights and pouring things into his tank is going to work or is even ethically correct in a hobby based entirely around patience; based entirely around the most non instant and slowest changing thing in the world, the ocean.
Agreed. I certainly did not intend to be snarky, so I apologise if it came off that way. I did a LOT of research, microscopes were employed, marine biologists were consulted. The field I work in makes it easy to have these resources available.

Nuisance algae may always be present, but an infestation is not always present. Of course it cannot be completely eradicated, but the initial infestation can and should be eradicated as fast as possible when possible. I mean this stuff went from one spot to covering the entire tank within 24 hours. It was not a wait and see situation.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Jumping in, I would agree things are always being present in our tanks. Not algea but somewhat similar was my fight was Aptasia. They showed up around year 2 of my tanks when I started stocking corals. I beat them about 6 months later. Here I am 5 years later and they just started coming back after so long. No changes in my tank other than a slack cleaning schedule throwing my numbers off. They must have been hiding but somewhat under control until my cleaning went south.

Those threads are long but very helpful. I think once a thread hits a certain amount a clif notes version should come out;Happy

Good luck.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Jumping in, I would agree things are always being present in our tanks. Not algea but somewhat similar was my fight was Aptasia. They showed up around year 2 of my tanks when I started stocking corals. I beat them about 6 months later. Here I am 5 years later and they just started coming back after so long. No changes in my tank other than a slack cleaning schedule throwing my numbers off. They must have been hiding but somewhat under control until my cleaning went south.

Those threads are long but very helpful. I think once a thread hits a certain amount a clif notes version should come out;Happy

Good luck.
Definitely a cliff notes version would be super helpful to people. The main issue in the dino thread especially is that there seem to be two main camps.

The "dirty" method, used when nothing else has worked so that you can culture more easily manageable nuisance algae that will out compete the dinos

And the "clean" method, dropping nutrients so the dinos have nothing to feed on. Once they're in there in large numbers they usually have to be manually removed while the problem that originally created it is dealt with.

And then there's folks that just say toss on a UV sterilizer, blackout for 72 hours and hope for the best. It's really hard to gauge exactly what you need to do.

By the way - I've got a buddy that has had a recurring aptasia problem that Aptasia-X and the likes weren't working on. He found some off the wall treatment that involved (and I'm not making this up) injecting lemon juice concentrate into them. He read some article that suggested the remnant acidity from the lemon prevented the aptasia from re-colonizing that spot.

I definitely wouldn't suggest it, because if even aptasia refuses that spot I would imagine that a lot of good things would refuse that spot as well. Oddly enough, it worked for him and he hasn't had an issue with it in years.
 
Lemon juice works. I usually just do Kalkwasser.but to be honest I don’t consider them bad. They are filter feeders. If they get overpopulated or stinging others, then they are a problem.
 
Lemon juice works. I usually just do Kalkwasser.but to be honest I don’t consider them bad. They are filter feeders. If they get overpopulated or stinging others, then they are a problem.

Have to drop this here ;Woot:
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