Mystery coral die off

jsker · Sep 9, 2019

redfishbluefish said:
However, I do have a question.....out of ignorance of antibiotics, will treating your DT with these drugs impact the nitrifying bacteria?

I totally agree, and hence my comment about using antibiotic as a broad treatment and the results of lowering the resistant for the system to maintain a natural immunity to disease.

ScottR · Sep 9, 2019

If you suspect bacterial infection, have you thought about running a UV filter? I’d even start dosing good bacteria to make up for possible lost nitrifying bacteria and keep an eye on ammonia, nitrites, etc.

These things are impossible to diagnose. I feel your pain. There are millions of variables. I hope you can get down to the cause of this.

Retro Reefer · Sep 9, 2019

I just noticed your black substrate, some of this stuff can have copper and iron in it amongst other nasty stuff.. now that I think about it my brother in law has a tank that is going through almost identical issues as yours, he used some kind of volcanic black sand in that tank also.. tank looked good for the first year or two but everything died off and it has turned into a cesspool. I told him to vacuum it out but he’s stubborn and won’t do it, his other tanks with regular crushed coral substrate look great.. trying to talk him into a ICP test but getting back to that stubborn thing.. ;Hilarious he has been keeping marine stuff since the 70’s and actually got me started so he doesn’t listen to much of my advice.. lol

jsker · Sep 9, 2019

ScottR said:
If you suspect bacterial infection, have you thought about running a UV filter? I’d even start dosing good bacteria to make up for possible lost nitrifying bacteria and keep an eye on ammonia, nitrites, etc.

These things are impossible to diagnose. I feel your pain. There are millions of variables. I hope you can get down to the cause of this.

I am running European system using the natural bacteria to break down the waist and feed the corals. So having to clean of a system is not good. Good suggestion on running the UV filter, I ran one of those back in the day with very little results.

Retro Reefer · Sep 9, 2019

I have seen reports of potentially detrimental effects of black substrate in marine tanks but of course doing some searches now I can’t find anything.. I did find a post by Dana Riddle about ground water being contaminated by rain water flowing through volcanic sand/rock and he mentions it can also potentially contain nitrates and fluoride.

Quote from Dana’s Post in a thread on using black volcanic sand:

The source of the sand will probably make a difference. Obviously, black sand is of volcanic origin and there is 'young' sand and 'aged' sand. Young sand (at least that from the Big Island) is full of metals, notably iron with a chance of copper. It also contains nitrate and fluoride. I ran the water systems at the Four Seasons/Hualalai and Kukio resorts for years, and had to deal with the effects of rainwater leaching through young volcanic rock and into the aquifiers. Eventually, we installed RO systems rated at a few million gallons a day to resolve some of the water issues. Also, Baker (once curator of the Shed Aquarium) recommended against lava rock due to potential of copper leaching. If you're using it with good success, more power to you!

Lasse · Sep 10, 2019

I would send in an ICP test. Not only for the reason to know what the water content. In this case with slowly answer from the corals - it can be important to know what the water NOT contain as well

Sincerely Lasse

jsker · Sep 10, 2019

Lasse said:
I would send in an ICP test. Not only for the reason to know what the water content. In this case with slowly answer from the corals - it can be important to know what the water NOT contain as well

Sincerely Lasse

I will do this and post back here

TheHarold · Sep 10, 2019

+1 on ICP. 1st step of troubleshooting- I picked up a bunch for $10 at MACNA if you need one. ICP-Analysis is pretty good, I send in samples on Monday and get results by Friday.

Also, I’m sure @Prime Coral would have some input about the evils of Philastar!

jsker · Sep 10, 2019

TheHarold said:
+1 on ICP. 1st step of troubleshooting- I picked up a bunch for $10 at MACNA if you need one. ICP-Analysis is pretty good, I send in samples on Monday and get results by Friday.

Also, I’m sure @Prime Coral would have some input about the evils of Philastar!

That is score on the tests, thank tank you for the offer.

I would like to find a test local to buy.

TheHarold · Sep 10, 2019

jsker said:
That is score on the tests, thank tank you for the offer. I would like to find a test local to buy.

No problem. I may have picked up 15 tests, lol! Last me till next MACNA

jsker · Sep 10, 2019

TheHarold said:
No problem. I may have picked up 15 tests, lol! Last me till next MACNA

I totally missed so much, I could not stay too long. Work

I am defiantly going to the AZ show and making it a vacation

gig 'em · Sep 10, 2019

I recently struggled with the same issues. For over 430 days my tank was limping along with coral health coming and going and slow unexplainable coral deaths. I eventually took action and did a 100% water change and dipped all my corals. I have a thread about it here:

SPS Experts: Can you figure it out?

I'm about at my wits end with this issue. It has been a persistent struggle for the past 430+ days and I'm at the brink of shutting down the tank completely and starting over fresh. Here is the essential breakdown: 2016- mid 2018 the tank was humming along perfectly. Mind breaking SPS growth...

www.reef2reef.com

Ever since then the health of my corals seems to have rebounded nicely and colors are beginning to return. It’s too early to declare success, but so far I’m pleased. I do hypothesize there was either a microbial ecological imbalance that was causing issues and when corals health are hurt their immune system is compromised to opportunistic microbes that live in the skin of corals. It’s incredibly difficult to test for this and demonstrate it as a hobbyist, all we have are academic research papers to draw from and form our best conclusions. It really is tough to go through when you can’t find anything clearly wrong, but corals are dying. I had success with my tank tear down and refill, but I can’t say why it was successful or if it will help for you. Best of luck though!

TheHarold · Sep 10, 2019

gig 'em said:
I recently struggled with the same issues. For over 430 days my tank was limping along with coral health coming and going and slow unexplainable coral deaths. I eventually took action and did a 100% water change and dipped all my corals. I have a thread about it here:

SPS Experts: Can you figure it out?

I'm about at my wits end with this issue. It has been a persistent struggle for the past 430+ days and I'm at the brink of shutting down the tank completely and starting over fresh. Here is the essential breakdown: 2016- mid 2018 the tank was humming along perfectly. Mind breaking SPS growth...

www.reef2reef.com

Ever since then the health of my corals seems to have rebounded nicely and colors are beginning to return. It’s too early to declare success, but so far I’m pleased. I do hypothesize there was either a microbial ecological imbalance that was causing issues and when corals health are hurt their immune system is compromised to opportunistic microbes that live in the skin of corals. It’s incredibly difficult to test for this and demonstrate it as a hobbyist, all we have are academic research papers to draw from and form our best conclusions. It really is tough to go through when you can’t find anything clearly wrong, but corals are dying. I had success with my tank tear down and refill, but I can’t say why it was successful or if it will help for you. Best of luck though!

What dip did you use?

gig 'em · Sep 10, 2019

TheHarold said:
What dip did you use?

3 separate dips: KCl, Lugols, and witches hazel

TheHarold · Sep 10, 2019

gig 'em said:
3 separate dips: KCl, Lugols, and witches hazel

Like one after the other, immediately? Was this a 1 time thing?

vetteguy53081 · Sep 10, 2019

+2 as I just sent an ICP in based on my tank actions recently.

gig 'em · Sep 10, 2019

TheHarold said:
Like one after the other, immediately? Was this a 1 time thing?

One after the other, 30 minutes in each

brandon429 · Sep 10, 2019

-I am running European system using the natural bacteria to break down the waist and feed the corals. So having to clean of a system is not good-

A pattern is emerging
That system hasn't been recommended to turn around a distressed tank but is being practiced.

How has that approach been factored or neutralized as a potential and sole causative

The tenets of that system so far are directly opposite of known working methods to fall back on... It's a hands off approach mentioned first post.
You described symptoms of an atypical method even before knew one was being ran

It may well work for others agreed, zeovit has pros and cons alike. excellence in color or total bleaching, not a lot in the middle. what if some aspect of this custom approach is putting your tank in the middle of that other system

Those details stand out.

Lasse · Sep 10, 2019

Since the beginning of June I have had problems with some corals and zero or near zero growth. Since a couple of weeks ago it has slowly get better and the white growth zones start to develop again. Everything looks better. My last IPC was rather good - but I have start with a daily dose of iron and strontium. I have dosed iodine every day for 2 years now. The Triton DOC test indicate to much of organic nitrogen, probably in the form of proteins/amino acids. I run the skimmer more wet (not much more but I get skimate) I have had some islands of cyano and have defeat it with blowing it away now and than. NO3 have been lowered to around 2 ppm but PO4 remain around 0.1 - 0.12

I have slowly change some parameters and it looks like it is on the right path for the moment - but why - do not ask me

Sincerely Lasse

jsker · Sep 10, 2019

gig 'em said:
I recently struggled with the same issues. For over 430 days my tank was limping along with coral health coming and going and slow unexplainable coral deaths. I eventually took action and did a 100% water change and dipped all my corals. I have a thread about it here:

SPS Experts: Can you figure it out?

I'm about at my wits end with this issue. It has been a persistent struggle for the past 430+ days and I'm at the brink of shutting down the tank completely and starting over fresh. Here is the essential breakdown: 2016- mid 2018 the tank was humming along perfectly. Mind breaking SPS growth...

www.reef2reef.com

Ever since then the health of my corals seems to have rebounded nicely and colors are beginning to return. It’s too early to declare success, but so far I’m pleased. I do hypothesize there was either a microbial ecological imbalance that was causing issues and when corals health are hurt their immune system is compromised to opportunistic microbes that live in the skin of corals. It’s incredibly difficult to test for this and demonstrate it as a hobbyist, all we have are academic research papers to draw from and form our best conclusions. It really is tough to go through when you can’t find anything clearly wrong, but corals are dying. I had success with my tank tear down and refill, but I can’t say why it was successful or if it will help for you. Best of luck though!

Pictures or did not happen ;Hilarious ;Hilarious ;Hilarious