nature's ocean water question...

tankaholic · Apr 13, 2016

hello,
Still kinda getting our own feet wet in saltwater tanks. But was asked this question over dinner tonight. A lady who runs a daycare wants to setup a 40gal breeder with carib sea Fiji sand, Fiji dry rock from bulf reef supply. And wants to use the natures ocean nutri-seawater to fill the tank. I told her I would think the tank would still cycle. Or would using the above supplies it not cycle and would be safe to add fish and coral?
thanks for thoughts and feedback

andyg1960 · Apr 13, 2016

Still kinda getting our own feet wet in saltwater tanks

Did you mean this to be as ironically funny as it is? I'm picturing you standing in the tank....

TheEngineer · Apr 13, 2016

tankaholic said:
hello,
Still kinda getting our own feet wet in saltwater tanks. But was asked this question over dinner tonight. A lady who runs a daycare wants to setup a 40gal breeder with carib sea Fiji sand, Fiji dry rock from bulf reef supply. And wants to use the natures ocean nutri-seawater to fill the tank. I told her I would think the tank would still cycle. Or would using the above supplies it not cycle and would be safe to add fish and coral?
thanks for thoughts and feedback

You'll still see a cycle. The rock is dry which means it needs to be seeded. The live sand will do that, but it takes some time. The water in a jug is nice, but a really expensive option if you have anything over a 5g tank.

Waters · Apr 13, 2016

She must watch Tanked

Unless the live rock is fully cured, it will still cycle (although the cycle might be small, depending on the quality of the live rock). There is very little beneficial bacteria in the water to make a difference.

tankaholic · Apr 13, 2016

andyg1960 said:
Still kinda getting our own feet wet in saltwater tanks

Did you mean this to be as ironically funny as it is? I'm picturing you standing in the tank....

Hehehe
I have had a Lil swimmer in the tank...cat got a to close and wasn't the great rim walker. Lol

tankaholic · Apr 13, 2016

The dry rock came from bulk reef supply it's their fiji dry rock. Not sure of the quality of the rock. Now would a bottle of seed from seachem help? Tank.size is 40 gal breeder. And wants it ready on April 25th. Tried to explain over dinner that it didn't work that way. I thought it would still cycle. We have 2 tanks....one has been up a year now and 2nd tank since Oct of 2015.

tankaholic · Apr 13, 2016

And the reason for this date is she has bought or put money down on a pair of clowns and a anemone.

Bpb · Apr 14, 2016

It will not be ready by then. Your friend can want it to be ready but it will not. Dry rock on a tank set up in 10 days time will not support an anemone. I don't care if it's seeded with fairy magic. Not going to be good

Lynn52 · Apr 14, 2016

Additionally the dry rock is full of dead stuff. It will cause a huge ammonia spike and will smell. I always soak dry rock in water for a couple weeks before trying to use it to cycle a tank. While soaking it will smell horribly as the dead stuff starts to decompose.

tankaholic · Apr 15, 2016

I have let her read what everyone has said. I didn't think it was possible but like I said I'm still a noobie at saltwater. And wasn't sure about the high dollar water.

Bpb · Apr 15, 2016

Yeah the high dollar water is just purified water with salt mixed already, or purified seawater. It can't really be considered live in a sealed/closed container for so long. Any life that was in it that didn't get filtered out would have suffocated and polluted the water by the time it gets sold. I really really is more economical to make your own water. The pre made water is so expensive you'll break even in a matter of months with an RODI filter and big box of salt vs buying premixed.

beaslbob · Apr 15, 2016

you will still have a cycle.

IMHO the best way to reduce/prevent the ammonia spikes is to use macro algae or an algae turf scrubber. An algae turf scrubber does take some time to get the algae established and requires more effort maintaining/cleaning. Macro algae will be active right from the start and the cleaning/maintenance is reduced to simply harvesting the macros every so often. Plus the macros are "pretty" and interesting even before fish/corals are added.

And forget the expensive water and mix your own.

I would tell them to include some kind of refugium even just an in tank partition and start the tank with macro algae right from the start. Then after a week use a male molly as a test fish. If they can get the molly to live for a month (which is not hard) then the tank should be ready for the more expensive marine only fish.

my .02

Aznxgqboyx · Apr 15, 2016

beaslbob said:
you will still have a cycle.

IMHO the best way to reduce/prevent the ammonia spikes is to use macro algae or an algae turf scrubber. An algae turf scrubber does take some time to get the algae established and requires more effort maintaining/cleaning. Macro algae will be active right from the start and the cleaning/maintenance is reduced to simply harvesting the macros every so often. Plus the macros are "pretty" and interesting even before fish/corals are added.

And forget the expensive water and mix your own.

I would tell them to include some kind of refugium even just an in tank partition and start the tank with macro algae right from the start. Then after a week use a male molly as a test fish. If they can get the molly to live for a month (which is not hard) then the tank should be ready for the more expensive marine only fish.

my .02

Your two cents is all wrong, way wrong, who cycles a saltwater tank with a molly? Youll have to acclimate it for saltwater and what not. A damsel would be far off better. And if she already ordered the clown fish she can just use some type of ammonia media that will help with the ammonia, there will still be a cycle but the clowns will survive, the anemone might not tho

Sabellafella · Apr 15, 2016

tankaholic said:
hello,
Still kinda getting our own feet wet in saltwater tanks. But was asked this question over dinner tonight. A lady who runs a daycare wants to setup a 40gal breeder with carib sea Fiji sand, Fiji dry rock from bulf reef supply. And wants to use the natures ocean nutri-seawater to fill the tank. I told her I would think the tank would still cycle. Or would using the above supplies it not cycle and would be safe to add fish and coral?
thanks for thoughts and feedback

Your best bet as of now is to get your hands on a bunch of pieces of live rock, and on the 25th if your ammonia is high i would not add the fish.

Sabellafella · Apr 15, 2016

You could start the tank on nutrisea water, any water you please. But if you do not have the bacteria in tank wether its from live rock or bottled to process the nutrients, youll run into problems. You started with not cured dry rock so your ammonia level will be very very high by the time the 25th comes. I dont recommend bottled bacteria but if your in a jiffy dr tims/mb7/ seachem stability/ will all work.

beaslbob · Apr 21, 2016

Aznxgqboyx said:
Your two cents is all wrong, way wrong, who cycles a saltwater tank with a molly? Youll have to acclimate it for saltwater and what not. A damsel would be far off better. And if she already ordered the clown fish she can just use some type of ammonia media that will help with the ammonia, there will still be a cycle but the clowns will survive, the anemone might not tho

you're entitled to your opinion.

Who starts a saltwater tank with a molly? I do.

and lotsa others as well.

acclimating a $2 fish from FW to marine is much better then stressing a $10-30 marine only fish and losing it.

Damsel's are aggressive and territorial. Mollies are peaceful and will eat algae in the tank.

I do agree to forget the anemone. Much too hard to keep for beginners who may not have the correct lighting as well.

my .02

tankaholic · Apr 21, 2016

I hear ya... I hate killing something for no real purpose.
When mollies and guppies pop babies like no tomorrow

tankaholic · Apr 21, 2016

Speaking of which would a guppy work in place of molly?

beaslbob · Apr 21, 2016

tankaholic said:
Speaking of which would a guppy work in place of molly?

Guppies are raised on brackish conditions but from what I understand do not acclimate to full marine. But I'm not gonna try.

Pssst: You use male mollies.

morpheas · Apr 21, 2016

My experience when I started my 30 gallon is this. I bought 40 lbs live sand and 20 lbs live cured rock from the lfs. I ghost fed and I saw a tiny spike of ammonia which was removed within an hour or so (I had a seneye watching). Other than that I put my first fish in (a clown mind you) two weeks later (first week was a light CUC). So if you had a combo like I did I see it working. Like everybody else mentioned, having dead rock will need month(s) to be ready for fish (certainly not two weeks).

Finally, on the anemone. I made the mistake of buying one on week 4. I felt confident since my tank used cured live rock and virtually no cycle was noticed. Problem is that no matter what, the first few months your tank goes through stages to establish (micro-fauna, balance the bacteria etc etc) so that environment is highly unstable and unfavorable for the survival of an anemone.

This has been my experience, I hope it helps you in your endeavors.