Need advice ......

[czoolander]

My latest peramiters were pretty spot on to where i have been keeping them and i am finally acheiving what i think can be called stability ?

Just did a 30 gallon water change last night

Alkalinity for the last few weeks 7.3-7.6 trying for 7.5 and last night tested at 7.5
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1380
NItrates 18.6 which seems high? even after a 30 gallon water change but i have been feeding frozen cubes twice a day for my new anthias fish . I might cut back on that in the next month or so if nitrates stay elevated
phosphates 0.00 Should i turn off my phosban reactor ???
salinity 1.026 verified by refractometer at home and at my lfs on their refractometor at the shop a day prior
tempature 78.0

I recently added 3 new sps frags and a acan coral . I have them inside an acclimation box to see if it is my tank peramiters or my fish ( coral beauty ) that is killing my corals. because everytime i try sps or acan corals they die in 5-10 days. I recently had a digi fire and teal birdsnest that both died last month

Most of my peramiters seem ok and all my other corals are thriving and growing. The new frags look happy too but too early to tell

I guess my concern is the nitrates of 18.6 after a water change and phosphate at 0.00

Any suggestions on this would be most appreciated ! thanks

 

[Lavey29]

Nitrates are fine but 0 phosphate is bad.

 

[Jekyl]

Might want to dose phosphate. Nitrate won't drop when there's no phosphate in the system. Keep a close eye on things and work to get nitrate under 10 for SPS. Especially if running low alkalinity.

 

[czoolander]

Might want to dose phosphate. Nitrate won't drop when there's no phosphate in the system. Keep a close eye on things and work to get nitrate under 10 for SPS. Especially if running low alkalinity.

Would you dose phosphate or just turn off the phosban reactor im running in my sump?

I just did a water change and that didnt get nitrates to 10 or below so would you recomment dosing like a NOPOX to reduce nitrates ? Would a product like microbacter 7 reduce nitrates ? or vibrant ?

Thanks

 

[czoolander]

Nitrates are fine but 0 phosphate is bad.

What would you do to fix 0 phosphate? Turn off my phosban reactor or dose phosphate ?

I am really surpristed that feeding 4+ cubes of frozen food in my system every day for a month that im not registering any phosphate on any tests. . .......... seems really bizarre .

 

[Uncle99]

What would you do to fix 0 phosphate? Turn off my phosban reactor or dose phosphate ?

I am really surpristed that feeding 4+ cubes of frozen food in my system every day for a month that im not registering any phosphate on any tests. . .......... seems really bizarre .

Turn off the reactor first.
Dose up that phosphate so you don’t get Dinos.
Then measure what happens to phosphate over a month.

 

[czoolander]

Turn off the reactor first.
Dose up that phosphate so you don’t get Dinos.
Then measure what happens to phosphate over a month.

Will do !

Could i assume that there is some phoshate in my system but the corals and algea and phosban reactor are consuming it all and Therefore i cant register any on my tests?

Also the reason i posted the original question

How long should i leave my sps and acan in the protective cage to assume the peramiters are fine for growth and assume that it is the coral beauty kill.ing my sps and lps corals ?

5 days? 15 days ?

 

[Jedi1199]

Wow.. and NOBODY has asked you what lighting setup you use.

I am still blown away by how little attention is paid to the value of light.

Since nobody else cares, what lights are you using? Have you mapped your par (intensity) values through your tank? More importantly, do you know what Spectrum your lights produce?

 

[Uncle99]

Your were running a phosphate reactor during initial stages, could have mopped up and zeroed out that organic. Never assume, but test, and adjust based on those findings.

When to add corals? Depends on the type?

I do not add any corals at all until I have 2 months data on all 8 parameters showing the levels to be both in-range, and not fluctuating. Then softies.

I do not add any LPS or SPS until I have an additional 4 months data indicating those levels remain solid. I’d like to see some small coralline circles on the glass, this is a super indicator of water chemistry.

Finally, if all going well at the first anniversary, we can add Acros. Some of these go “poof” fast with any big fluxes of salinity, temp or alk. No mistakes with this group.

I want to be sure that every time I drop a coral, it’s going to flourish from day one.

Way too expensive to lose them.

I doubt that was the answer your looking for, it’s just our way to populate systems in an appropriate (or at least in my mind) manner to keep everyone happy, including the reefer.

I don’t know why your corals die, but I see your point on the CB, quite possible and/or crabs, known or unknown.

 

[czoolander]

Wow.. and NOBODY has asked you what lighting setup you use.

I am still blown away by how little attention is paid to the value of light.

Since nobody else cares, what lights are you using? Have you mapped your par (intensity) values through your tank? More importantly, do you know what Spectrum your lights produce?

I have 3 - Red sea LED 90s I have never measured PAR because there is so many studies done on PAR for red sea lights on red sea tanks. I am going to assume that if they look good and happy in my sand bed they should be happy and good once i move them up higher in my tank on the rocks?

 

[czoolander]

Your were running a phosphate reactor during initial stages, could have mopped up and zeroed out that organic. Never assume, but test, and adjust based on those findings.

When to add corals? Depends on the type?

I do not add any corals at all until I have 2 months data on all 8 parameters showing the levels to be both in-range, and not fluctuating. Then softies.

I do not add any LPS or SPS until I have an additional 4 months data indicating those levels remain solid. I’d like to see some small coralline circles on the glass, this is a super indicator of water chemistry.

Finally, if all going well at the first anniversary, we can add Acros. Some of these go “poof” fast with any big fluxes of salinity, temp or alk. No mistakes with this group.

I want to be sure that every time I drop a coral, it’s going to flourish from day one.

Way too expensive to lose them.

I doubt that was the answer your looking for, it’s just our way to populate systems in an appropriate (or at least in my mind) manner to keep everyone happy, including the reefer.

I don’t know why your corals die, but I see your point on the CB, quite possible and/or crabs, known or unknown.

Ill send some pictures . Tank is 3 years old in November and i do have lots of coraline algea covering my back glass and all over my rocks . in the sump as well

 

[Uncle99]

Ill send some pictures . Tank is 3 years old in November and i do have lots of coraline algea covering my back glass and all over my rocks . in the sump as well

I did not know that.
Your fine to move forward in your mature system.

You either have no phosphate, or someone’s sampling your corals.

 

[Jedi1199]

I have 3 - Red sea LED 90s I have never measured PAR because there is so many studies done on PAR for red sea lights on red sea tanks. I am going to assume that if they look good and happy in my sand bed they should be happy and good once i move them up higher in my tank on the rocks?

Assume?

Do you assume that because you water looks clear that it is at proper parameters?

Do you assume that because your car starts that the oil level, coolant level, brake fluid ect is correct?

If you do not test these issues, how can you assume there is no possibility for problems?

 

[czoolander]

Here are some pics of the tank and new corals to help diagnosis
@Uncle99 @Jedi1199 @Jekyl

 

[Jedi1199]

Based on these photos, and mind you this is my OWN opinion, not anything that should be taken as concrete, it appears that your flow rate is low at the sand bed. You have what appears to me to be dinos on the sand. Nothing to be concerned about, especially in a system that is as old as yours, but flow rate could be your issue.

In my experience, most SPS corals appreciate a higher flow rate than most others.

The Acan "should" be fine no matter where you place it. SPS in general prefer higher flow and light levels.

I still believe that lighting is the issue here.

Rereading your original post, Nitrates of 18 or so should not be an issue. Before I upgraded my 55g to the new 135 my Nitrates were easily double yours. I never had an issue with most corals.

When I saw the BEST advancement of my own system was when I upgraded my lights.

 

[czoolander]

Assume?

Do you assume that because you water looks clear that it is at proper parameters?

Do you assume that because your car starts that the oil level, coolant level, brake fluid ect is correct?

If you do not test these issues, how can you assume there is no possibility for problems?

Yup assuming for sure . I seen many videos from BRS and Red sea that show the PAR levels at differnent parts of the tank at all depths . I figure their studies will be far more accurate then any hokey experiment i will do for PAR readings haha

Clear water typically has proper parameters but no i test everything weekly ?

Car oil coolant and brake fluid typically yes all levels are fine i do have sensors that and gauges for all these and regular scheduled maintanence so not sure how this is relevant ?

You are right i cant rule out lighting . I am assuming for sure . But i have heard people with the same lights running similar setting having success with SPS corals in the same tank so i have all but ruled out lighting as a cause.

In the pictures the sps and acan do look happy? and that is on the sand bed so maybe lighting is getting PAR strong enough to the tank bottom?

 

[czoolander]

Based on these photos, and mind you this is my OWN opinion, not anything that should be taken as concrete, it appears that your flow rate is low at the sand bed. You have what appears to me to be dinos on the sand. Nothing to be concerned about, especially in a system that is as old as yours, but flow rate could be your issue.

In my experience, most SPS corals appreciate a higher flow rate than most others.

The Acan "should" be fine no matter where you place it. SPS in general prefer higher flow and light levels.

I still believe that lighting is the issue here.

Rereading your original post, Nitrates of 18 or so should not be an issue. Before I upgraded my 55g to the new 135 my Nitrates were easily double yours. I never had an issue with most corals.

When I saw the BEST advancement of my own system was when I upgraded my lights.

I could try upping the flow i guess the problem is if i turn up the flow any higher it seems to blast all my softie corals.

But you are right i tend to think flow could be an issue too? I guess to my eyes it looks like super strong flow but i think the flow is pretty tame to mild in my current setup .

I run my MP40s on about 55% strength

I know i read of people having 100% flow on these in similar tanks but to me it just looks like a hurricane in my tank if i run MP40s on 100% lol

 

[Jedi1199]

Car oil coolant and brake fluid typically yes all levels are fine i do have sensors that and gauges for all these and regular scheduled maintanence so not sure how this is relevant ?

This is entirely relevant!! You have sensors that gauge these issues. Yes, in your car, it is automated. Not something you have to manually test on a daily basis, but to assume, with no other information, that these levels are correct, is exactly the same thing as assuming that your system levels are correct just because you don't see fish and corals dropping like flies.


My point is you can never assume anything. If you have any doubt, test everything.

Same thing here.. You have seen videos and posts and have observed others with high success with a similar setup to what you have. Did you see the dark days they went through? Do you know exactly what they all did to reach the results they have? Do you know what upgrades they have implemented in their systems that differ from what you have?

Every system is as unique as a fingerprint. I could set up a system with identical hardware to what you have and achieve completely different results based on variables that are never discussed. Tank placement, lighting schedule, heat, the list goes on and on.

We can only offer the best advice we can.

 

[czoolander]

This is entirely relevant!! You have sensors that gauge these issues. Yes, in your car, it is automated. Not something you have to manually test on a daily basis, but to assume, with no other information, that these levels are correct, is exactly the same thing as assuming that your system levels are correct just because you don't see fish and corals dropping like flies.


My point is you can never assume anything. If you have any doubt, test everything.

Same thing here.. You have seen videos and posts and have observed others with high success with a similar setup to what you have. Did you see the dark days they went through? Do you know exactly what they all did to reach the results they have? Do you know what upgrades they have implemented in their systems that differ from what you have?

Every system is as unique as a fingerprint. I could set up a system with identical hardware to what you have and achieve completely different results based on variables that are never discussed. Tank placement, lighting schedule, heat, the list goes on and on.

We can only offer the best advice we can.

I guess what i am saying is that PAR on your lights is not something you have to measure daily or weekly. It should be a set it and forget it.

I dont see why you are comparing checking the oil in your car to checking PAR in a reef tank?

I could see a comparison to checking oil in your car to checking magnesium in your tank? as they are both consumed by the system.

Can i not assume that red sea LED lights will do as they are advertised and give the same PAR in my tank in the same tank they are tested and desgined by red sea?

Red sea 525 xl tank with Red sea lights ?? i shouldnt have to test PAR on this as all the tests have been done by the company and also tested by independent sites like BRS .

I cant rule out lighting......... but its so low down on my suspect list that im not considering lighting haha

1) nitrates 18.6
2 ) phosphates 0.00
3) coral beauty
4) Flow
.......
6 or 7 ) possibly lighting

I think those are probably the strongest candidates unless i am lookin at this all wrong?

 

[DE FISH]

I could try upping the flow i guess the problem is if i turn up the flow any higher it seems to blast all my softie corals.

But you are right i tend to think flow could be an issue too? I guess to my eyes it looks like super strong flow but i think the flow is pretty tame to mild in my current setup .

I run my MP40s on about 55% strength

I know i read of people having 100% flow on these in similar tanks but to me it just looks like a hurricane in my tank if i run MP40s on 100% lol

Upping your flow isn’t going to change your po4 levels I recently found after losing a few frags that were doing well my po4 had hit zero what’s everybody’s diy recipe for po4 for me and op ? As corals cannot consume nitrate without po4