Need fish advice

[Double J]

Set up my tank about 5 months ago. Got in a rush to add fish and went with a ocellaris clown and 2 bangaii cardinals, since the lfs was out of green chromis. Added 6 green chromis about 5 weeks later, all was fine for about 6 weeks. Then the chromis started to disappear, was down to 4 for over a month, now only have 2 and they look they they are hiding for their lives, I actually thought they were gone too.

Need advice, not sure who is picking on them, should I give them away or set up another tank rearrange and add the rest of the fish and try to add them back in the dt in a month or so?
Thanks!

 

[Nihilus]

Chromis are known to fight amongst themselves until only 1 or 2 are left. This would be my guess.

How big is the tank btw?

 

[Double J]

I have heard that, but both survivors are hiding, I was thinking that might be the case until the last 2 are freaked out. It's a 50 gal tank

 

[eatbreakfast]

What is the feeding regimine? Chromis do best with small frequent feedings.

How much flow is in the tank? Chromis seem to better with a lot of flow.

While in some instances chromis will fight. I have found this to usually be related to spawning, and even then I have just had the group break into prs with aggression but not killing. Six weeks would be very quick for this behavior to begin.

 

[4FordFamily]

Chromis are very susceptible to uronemia which will randomly take them out. It will seem like they're rotting in small areas and after a day or two they're gone.

 

[Double J]

Feeding is 2-3x daily, with the last including brine shrimp. For flow I believe their is plenty. Have the skimmer a c3 fluval and 2 hydor power heads on a wave maker, can't remember the model, but they almost seemed too big.
My thought was the cardinals were picking on them as the cards will only eat brine shrimp and seem to get a little crazy at feeding.
The group of chromis did go from hanging out around the clown to hanging out on the other side of the tank with the cardinals, I'm lost here never have had this kind of problem, I've moved all the rock around several times and then turn the light off for a day and a half.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Are the brine enriched in any way? If not, they are nutritionally devoid. Try feeding mysis or some other calanoid copepods.

Did you notice any hemorrhaging? This is a symptom of Uronema.

Moving rocks around will make them more reclusive.

Usually if there is aggression it will be noticeable.

 

[Robthorn]

I have 18 or 19 left out of the 22 I added. This is not normal for these fish. I assume it is a collection issue.
Even though I got lucky with these , this is probably a species better left in the wild.
I have seen chromis just belly up and have a heart attack from putting a net in the tank next to theirs.
If your chromis are always hidding they are dead already. Even if you only have 1 they will be out and about swimming.

 

[eatbreakfast]

I have 18 or 19 left out of the 22 I added. This is not normal for these fish. I assume it is a collection issue.
Even though I got lucky with these , this is probably a species better left in the wild.
I have seen chromis just belly up and have a heart attack from putting a net in the tank next to theirs.
If your chromis are always hidding they are dead already. Even if you only have 1 they will be out and about swimming.

I find their mortality correlates more signicantly on how they are handled after collection. Chromis that arrive directly from a collector survive much better than those that stop at a wholesaler. When shipped direct they are single bagged and are quite hardy. Many wholesalers, on the other hand, will ship large quantities in the same bag. Disease and parasites proliferate quickly in these settings.

 

[Robthorn]

Hmmmm? I have never seen anything in the damsel family get shipped from a collector as a single animal. Normally a pretty decent number, including clownfish. I am sure you are right if you got them individually bagged they would do better.
I think fish in general are way worse now than they used to be. It used to be about the animal. Now its about $'s for many in the business. Even the collectors.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Getting them bagged singly seems to be pretty standard from the various collectors I deal with.

 

[Double J]

What would cause uronemia? I have noticed that even the clown and cards seem to be less active after moving the rockscape around.
Yes I would agree the chromis are likely going to die, as the others acted similar.
Going to do a water test and partial water change tonight and see what I can find

 

[Duke4Life]

Uronema

What would cause uronemia?

Here's a link to what I found that causes:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/10/aafeature1

@Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[Humblefish]

Chromis are known to fight amongst themselves until only 1 or 2 are left. This would be my guess.

^^This. If they have Uronema you'll see red sores on them (photo below).

 

[McMullen]

I've tried Cromis several times over the years and finally stopped. They almost always perish within days to couple weeks. I've kept a couple alive for a few months. To contrast, my other fish have only died from severe power outages or old age. At this point it seems cruel to purchase more Cromis only for them to die.

I'm envious of anyone who keeps them long term!

 

[Humblefish]

I'm envious of anyone who keeps them long term!

The specimens I've prophylactically treated with Chloroquine phosphate (for uronema) have survived long-term, even when passed on to other reefers I know have ich in their tank. I'm betting metronidazole would work just as well for uronema. I know some who prophylactically give all new chromis a formalin bath and that seems to work just as well, but I do not advocate using formalin on a fish unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Double J]

nihilus thanks for the picture, I havent seen any red patches on any of them, however this may seem harsh, but I pulled one out because he was in such bad shape that i felt there was no way he would recover, so i euthanized him with the net slap technique and he tore in half. this makes me lean toward the idea of uronema.
update on the 2 remaining chrmois. one is still hiding in a little cave and the other has moved from the sand bottom up to the top of the rock structure and is hanging out in a fake anenome( i know, fake corals) he is eating again at least.
just wondering what my options are? is there something to treat the whole tank, or should i dip them? im sure a parasite could also attack my clown and cards, and even persist in the water column for some time.

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[Humblefish]

@Double J IF these chromis are already in the DT and they were to have uronema, then I have very bad news for you:

Uronema marinum:

Symptoms - These are the red sores often seen on chromis damsels. The disease seems mostly confined to damsels and clownfish, but I have seen some exceptions to that.

Treatment options - This is a very difficult disease to treat. Possible treatment options include: Metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex), acriflavine (ex. Acriflavine-MS), Chloroquine phosphate and copper. The problem is the fish can never be returned to the infected tank from which it came. Uronema is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. So, going fallow will not eradicate it. Most fish seem protected from it via their natural immune system; but for some reason, chromis and some other fish are not always afforded this protection. Once a tank has Uronema, it must be assumed that the disease can survive in there almost indefinitely.

Formalin bath or freshwater dip may provide temporary relief for Uronema.

 

[Double J]

Here is one that just died, no red sores just the fins tore up and lacking color. Still have the other 2 alive, had a third still hiding.

 

[Double J]

After more research I think they may have become aggressive. The first ones to go were always the smallest. The 2 that are still alive were the biggest. I also haven't seen any of the red sores on any of them.
The one in the picture had his fin nipped off to the point it couldn't swim.
I hope they are done killing each other, because I'm done with chromis. They were always a favorite of mine, but I had a 150 gallon before and had a group of about a dozen. So maybe that is why? Thanks for all the input and advice!