Need Help - Big Change to QT

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HardyG

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After many many years, and after being an anti QT'er, I have finally joined the "light" side. I have a new tank build I am working on after a few years out of the hobby, and am deciding to do things correctly. As many do, my first inhabitants will be a pair of clowns. Where I am running into issues is that I see very straightforward posts that go down the list ABCD for what to do for all of the ich/velvet prone fish, but for clowns who are more susceptible to brook or Uronema, is there a step by step guide out there on exactly how to QT something like clownfish?

Sorry if I missed it. Just not very comfortable QTing yet, so I would love to find some step by step directions by someone who has had great success!
Thanks!
 
After many many years, and after being an anti QT'er, I have finally joined the "light" side. I have a new tank build I am working on after a few years out of the hobby, and am deciding to do things correctly. As many do, my first inhabitants will be a pair of clowns. Where I am running into issues is that I see very straightforward posts that go down the list ABCD for what to do for all of the ich/velvet prone fish, but for clowns who are more susceptible to brook or Uronema, is there a step by step guide out there on exactly how to QT something like clownfish?

Sorry if I missed it. Just not very comfortable QTing yet, so I would love to find some step by step directions by someone who has had great success!
Thanks!
For quarantine, typically you will do a 30 day coppersafe treatment followed by prazi pro treatment
If clown specific, you can do a formalin based quarantine regimen but with formalin based harder to find, ruby rally pro is a safe option
 
For quarantine, typically you will do a 30 day coppersafe treatment followed by prazi pro treatment
If clown specific, you can do a formalin based quarantine regimen but with formalin based harder to find, ruby rally pro is a safe option
Thanks for the reply! Is there a thread somewhere explaining the QT process with this? I see the directions say add once a day for 3 days. Not sure on how long or if I need to run carbon or something! I sound like such a noob needing step by step directions lol! I just want to do it right the first time ya know?
 
Thanks for the reply! Is there a thread somewhere explaining the QT process with this? I see the directions say add once a day for 3 days. Not sure on how long or if I need to run carbon or something! I sound like such a noob needing step by step directions lol! I just want to do it right the first time ya know?
For prazi, 3 days if for bath. For treatment and quarantine, apply initial dosage and leave in tank for 8 days and apply one more application for 8 days. Add aeration with air stone as prazi reduces both oxygen and appetite
 
After many many years, and after being an anti QT'er, I have finally joined the "light" side. I have a new tank build I am working on after a few years out of the hobby, and am deciding to do things correctly. As many do, my first inhabitants will be a pair of clowns. Where I am running into issues is that I see very straightforward posts that go down the list ABCD for what to do for all of the ich/velvet prone fish, but for clowns who are more susceptible to brook or Uronema, is there a step by step guide out there on exactly how to QT something like clownfish?

Sorry if I missed it. Just not very comfortable QTing yet, so I would love to find some step by step directions by someone who has had great success!
Thanks!


I keep our current quarantine protocol on the first page of this thread:

It works in most cases, for most fish. It works to eliminate ich, velvet and flukes. Those make up the vast majority of diseases that new fish can bring into a tank of established fish.

Internal Uronema is not treatable, despite what you might read. Therefore, this quarantine process doesn't attempt to cover that.

It also does not cover Brooklynella. That disease is seen mostly in wild caught clownfish, or tank raised clowns that were housed with wild caught clownfish and housed under poor conditions. It needs to be treated separately if it shows up.

Jay
 
Thank you all for the response!
I keep our current quarantine protocol on the first page of this thread:

It works in most cases, for most fish. It works to eliminate ich, velvet and flukes. Those make up the vast majority of diseases that new fish can bring into a tank of established fish.

Internal Uronema is not treatable, despite what you might read. Therefore, this quarantine process doesn't attempt to cover that.

It also does not cover Brooklynella. That disease is seen mostly in wild caught clownfish, or tank raised clowns that were housed with wild caught clownfish and housed under poor conditions. It needs to be treated separately if it shows up.

Jay
Jay I really appreciate your documentation. So for these clownfish, that are going to most likely be from Petco (not sure if they are tank raised or wild) since my nearest reef store is 2 hours away, I should follow the 34 days of copper treatment followed by the Praziquantel treatment to do a full 64 day QT?
 
Thank you all for the response!

Jay I really appreciate your documentation. So for these clownfish, that are going to most likely be from Petco (not sure if they are tank raised or wild) since my nearest reef store is 2 hours away, I should follow the 34 days of copper treatment followed by the Praziquantel treatment to do a full 64 day QT?

Yes, I would. Also, you might want to pick up some Ruby Reef Rally Pro to have on hand in case they develop Brooklynella.

Just my opinion, I won't buy fish from any of the "big chain" pet stores. They get their fish from large bulk wholesalers and the quality is just not there.

Another option would be to buy pre-quarantined or tank raised fish directly from the supplier and have them shipped to you.

Jay
 
Yes, I would. Also, you might want to pick up some Ruby Reef Rally Pro to have on hand in case they develop Brooklynella.

Just my opinion, I won't buy fish from any of the "big chain" pet stores. They get their fish from large bulk wholesalers and the quality is just not there.

Another option would be to buy pre-quarantined or tank raised fish directly from the supplier and have them shipped to you.

Jay
Thanks for the heads up. Any suppliers you recommend?
 
Thanks for the heads up. Any suppliers you recommend?
Sorry, I try not to recommend dealers for fear people might think I’m biased or something. Any fish breeder would be a good source, and there are a few suppliers of quarantined animals online, at least one is a vendor here.
Jay
 
Sorry, I try not to recommend dealers for fear people might think I’m biased or something. Any fish breeder would be a good source, and there are a few suppliers of quarantined animals online, at least one is a vendor here.
Jay
Gotcha. Maybe someone can chime in! I appreciate the lead at least! Anything will probably be better than petco lol
 
Gotcha. Maybe someone can chime in! I appreciate the lead at least! Anything will probably be better than petco lol
Did you notice I was careful to say “big chain” pet stores and not single one out? (Grin).

Jay
 
One follow up question (for now) lol.. Based on the QT criteria, is the only time to administer water changes when ammonia levels are rising? No need to worry about nitrates or anything? @Jay Hemdal
 
One follow up question (for now) lol.. Based on the QT criteria, is the only time to administer water changes when ammonia levels are rising? No need to worry about nitrates or anything? @Jay Hemdal

Within any foreseeable levels, ammonia is the primary reason for water changes in a quarantine tank. Nitrite is mostly non-toxic to marine fish, and nitrate is even less toxic. Dissolved oxygen and pH are two other important water quality parameters, along with salinity and temperature of course. You cannot easily measure oxygen, so always aerate a QT well.

Jay
 
One follow up question (for now) lol.. Based on the QT criteria, is the only time to administer water changes when ammonia levels are rising? No need to worry about nitrates or anything? @Jay Hemdal
One thing you can do to rapid-cycle a QT tank is to cut a piece of cloth filter sock to the same dimensions as the QT HOB filter media and stick it in your main tank for a bit. This will colonize with bacteria. Then you’re putting it in the HOB so it’ll get healthy flor through it for processing ammonia.

As the sock material isn’t something that’ll absorb copper (unlike some rock media) it should help you achieve stable copper levels fairly easily.

Also, if you don’t have one already, get a digital copper checker (Hanna) as the color ones you read yourself are very hard to read within the ranges you’ll be dosing. Or you can do what I did and cheap out on the color ones, then go and buy the Hanna one anyway when you realize you can’t read the color one…
 
So when exactly would water changes be required if you are medicating? As needed? Obviously the water going into the tank would need to be "pre-medicated" to keep stable levels, but is the main thing that you are looking for in terms of water changes ammonia or are you all testing nitrates phosphates ph etc.?
 
So when exactly would water changes be required if you are medicating? As needed? Obviously the water going into the tank would need to be "pre-medicated" to keep stable levels, but is the main thing that you are looking for in terms of water changes ammonia or are you all testing nitrates phosphates ph etc.?

Water change between copper and prazi, to bring copper levels down so you’re not dosing both at once.

The tanks for QT are typically small and will have very limited clean up crew because the medications kill a lot of the critters, and you probably have bare bottom - so they end up a bit dirty at the base.

You’ll probably want to do “cleaning” water changes with frequency dependent on bioload regardless of ammonia, etc.

In most cases you can use water from your tank water change (unless you’re fallowing your tank because of ich/something) rather than mix up fresh water, with the benefit this will acclimate them to the tank water.
 
That makes sense. So just some background about my setup and plans.. I am just now getting my tank put together and will hopefully have water in the next few weeks. In the meantime I wanted to go ahead and get a plan together for the fish. My stock list is very simple and is comprised of mostly a pair of clowns and a few tangs. I am here for the corals mostly, so I am one of those all fish need a job type people! As I mentioned above, I was anti QT when I was in the hobby back a few years ago, but stumbled across Jay's very straightforward guide and thought it was doable.

Now here is where it gets interesting.. I stumbled across the TTM method this week and I think it was designed for a person just like me. I understand that it does not kill all diseases, but my main concerns are ich and velvet with my stock list. So I believe that is the route I am going to go first. Hopefully I don't regret it!!!
 
That makes sense. So just some background about my setup and plans.. I am just now getting my tank put together and will hopefully have water in the next few weeks. In the meantime I wanted to go ahead and get a plan together for the fish. My stock list is very simple and is comprised of mostly a pair of clowns and a few tangs. I am here for the corals mostly, so I am one of those all fish need a job type people! As I mentioned above, I was anti QT when I was in the hobby back a few years ago, but stumbled across Jay's very straightforward guide and thought it was doable.

Now here is where it gets interesting.. I stumbled across the TTM method this week and I think it was designed for a person just like me. I understand that it does not kill all diseases, but my main concerns are ich and velvet with my stock list. So I believe that is the route I am going to go first. Hopefully I don't regret it!!!

TTM has its uses, but the most benefit is seen if you have fish with marine ich, that you need to move quickly into a clean tank. TTM is designed to take advantage if the ich life cycle to "break the chain". Regular TTM does NOT work against velvet. For that, you need to include a 100 ppm hydrogen peroxide dip between tank changes.

Trouble is, TTM does not work at all for flukes. Here is a write-up that I did on the topic:

“Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM)
A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of the life cycle of the organism—moving the infected fish to a new aquarium at the point where the tomonts are produced, potentially breaking the life cycle. In real-world applications, multiple tank moves are required because, as mentioned above, the ich parasites are rarely in perfect synchronicity. This process can be physically damaging to fish, and ammonia levels can build up too high in the containers between transfers. In addition, the method does not control flukes, and may not control Amyloodinium (velvet). “Hybrid TTM”, using the addition of hydrogen peroxide at two points in the process has been touted as a way around this deficiency. The trouble with that is that “dips” in general are rarely 100% effective for parasites, and fluke eggs will not be controlled at all.

There are also diseases that simply do not manifest themselves within the shortened timeline of TTM. You then risk introducing those diseases into your DT (display tank) due to the shortened time for the TTM over that of the more typical 40+ day quarantine methods. Some of those diseases are not treatable, but you definitely don't want them getting into your main aquarium.... Myxosporidians, viruses, etc. Remember, part of the reason to run a full quarantine on new fish is to protect your existing fish from any diseases they may be carrying.

Avoid using opaque buckets or bins for TTM. You need to have clear lateral viewing of new fish to screen them for other issues, like not eating well, fighting, etc. Remember that TTM is rather stressful, moving the fish like that, and with newly acquired fish, stress reduction is vital.

Another drawback to TTM is that it really only works for newly acquired fish. If you have an existing aquarium, and the fish develop ich, you can't remove them and use TTM because at the end of the run, you need a clean tank to house them and your DT will have been recently infected and will still be in its fallow period. Copper and hyposalinity require longer treatment periods, so you can't run them unless you have a stable treatment tank - and therefore, the fish can be housed in that tank until your display has run fallow long enough.

Jay




Jay
 
Awesome write up Jay! Thank you so much for the reply. I find it so awesome that you find time to comment on so many of our medical threads!

I definitely am more in line with a hybrid version of the TTM which includes the hydrogen peroxide baths on Day 4 and Day 10, observing for any signs of other illness and then observing for anything else that presents itself.
 

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