NEED SCOLY HELP

[BanjoBandito]

I just got this scoly, and it was shipped in….I dripped him for 30 min and put him in. It’s very deflated and showing skeletal spikes through the skin, wide open mouth. It’s at about 120 PAR on my sand. Any idea if it’s good or bad or something is wrong? I’m growing acro in this tank and don’t have ULNS so I’m hoping shipping stress but I’m worried. I broke my budget rule with this.

 

[shakacuz]

put it in lower PAR and try to target feed it some amino's after a day or so. if it doesn't perk up, maybe an iodine dip could help.

 

[BanjoBandito]

I've tucked him into a shaded alcove in my tank. I hate this crap. Worst part of the hobby.

 

[shakacuz]

I've tucked him into a shaded alcove in my tank. I hate this crap. Worst part of the hobby.

yeah, shipping is dismal.

 

[SHNICI]

lower than 60 PAR for it for few days..., also the acclimation time it's a bit wrong for it, if it's been on lower/higher Alk, or in ULNS..., then at least 1h drip acclimation up to 2h (min 1h for most of the corals I'll say)

 

[MaxTremors]

It doesn’t look too bad to me. I would put it in lower PAR and leave it alone. I would avoid trying to feed it until it inflates more and puts out its feeding tentacles on its own. The septa breaking through the flesh is common after shipping fleshy LPS the flesh should heal within a couple days. I’ve read that Scolys like somewhat lower temps, but I don’t know how true that is, I’ve always kept them around 77-78°. In the future, I would also skip the drip acclimation, especially for shipped corals, the sooner you can get them into flowing water so they can properly respirate, the better. Just float (if it’s more than 1-2° off), dip (if applicable), and put in the tank.

 

[MaxTremors]

lower than 60 PAR for it for few days..., also the acclimation time it's a bit wrong for it, if it's been on lower/higher Alk, or in ULNS..., then at least 1h drip acclimation up to 2h (min 1h for most of the corals I'll say)

Drip acclimation for corals and anemones is at best unnecessary and at worst it’s detrimental. Corals take in and expel water through diffusion, they are self acclimating. The sooner you can get them into flowing water so they can properly respirate (and expel and get the free radicals that are a byproduct of photosynthesis away from their tissue) the better. After 6-8 hours in stagnant/still water, cells start dying from lack of respiration. Drip acclimation doesn’t help a coral acclimate, and delaying getting the coral into flowing water for another hour or two can be very detrimental.

 

[SHNICI]

It doesn’t look too bad to me. I would put it in lower PAR and leave it alone. I would avoid trying to feed it until it inflates more and puts out its feeding tentacles on its own. The septa breaking through the flesh is common after shipping fleshy LPS the flesh should heal within a couple days. I’ve read that Scolys like somewhat lower temps, but I don’t know how true that is, I’ve always kept them around 77-78°. In the future, I would also skip the drip acclimation, especially for shipped corals, the sooner you can get them into flowing water so they can properly respirate, the better. Just float (if it’s more than 1-2° off), dip (if applicable), and put in the tank.

Learned the hard way (after loss of few £K in corals from rushing to add them in my system without proper acclimation), always checking the alk and nutr ( the water in the bags) before introduce new corals..., if the alk show me over 0.4-0.5dKH difference drip acclimation for min 1h (ofc 1st 15 min in the tank water to temp acclimate them)
if have amino acids can test it/offer it in 2-3 days before feeding tentacles are out, that way can stimulate it to ask for food xD
Rather than that isn't looking that bad like you say.

 

[SHNICI]

Drip acclimation for corals and anemones is at best unnecessary and at worst it’s detrimental. Corals take in and expel water through diffusion, they are self acclimating. The sooner you can get them into flowing water so they can properly respirate (and expel and get the free radicals that are a byproduct of photosynthesis away from their tissue) the better. After 6-8 hours in stagnant/still water, cells start dying from lack of respiration. Drip acclimation doesn’t help a coral acclimate, and delaying getting the coral into flowing water for another hour or two can be very detrimental.

ok, you may be right for yourself, I can't risk that anymore for my shop xD

 

[MaxTremors]

Learned the hard way (after loss of few £K in corals from rushing to add them in my system without proper acclimation), always checking the alk and nutr ( the water in the bags) before introduce new corals..., if the alk show me over 0.4-0.5dKH difference drip acclimation for min 1h (ofc 1st 15 min in the tank water to temp acclimate them)
if have amino acids can test it/offer it in 2-3 days before feeding tentacles are out, that way can stimulate it to ask for food xD
Rather than that isn't looking that bad like you say.

In 20 years I’ve never lost a coral (or had any issues) from not drip acclimating. No coral vendor or farmer that I know of drip acclimates.

edit: If you are a coral vendor/LFS owner, you’re the first I’ve ever heard of that drip acclimates.

 

[SHNICI]

ok, you may be right for yourself, I can't risk that anymore for my shop xD

sorry, forgot to mention in relation with what you say: usually I'm getting them in a poly boxes..., I add them all in the box with the water (removing the plastic bags) and adding small pump as well to make a flow and to mix the water constantly during the drip acclimation

 

[SHNICI]

In 20 years I’ve never lost a coral (or had any issues) from not drip acclimating. No coral vendor or farmer that I know of drip acclimates.

edit: If you are a coral vendor/LFS owner, you’re the first I’ve ever heard of that drip acclimates.

Yes I have a shop, and lost one delivery (which was healthy for sure) adding it straight in the systems. The alk after I check was 1 dKH difference which stress the already stressed corals and most die in 2 days. Mainly Acros, Montys, Chalices..., some plates as well...


Edit: Don't have any customer lost his coral after proper acclimation, and few from adding the coral w/o acclimation (not talking about the temp acclimation)

 

[MaxTremors]

Yes I have a shop, and lost one delivery (which was healthy for sure) adding it straight in the systems. The alk after I check was 1 dKH difference which stress the already stressed corals and most die in 2 days. Mainly Acros, Montys, Chalices..., some plates as well...

Not trying to argue with you or doubt your experience, but I’m willing to bet that that wasn’t the cause of you losing those corals. In most cases, drip acclimation probably doesn’t cause much harm. But let me ask you this, do you dip your corals? And if so, do you slowly acclimate them to the dip? And if not, why do corals need to be drip acclimated to tank water and not the harsh chemicals in a coral dip? Again, not trying to argue or condescend, I know that drip acclimation is what a lot of people were taught, but logically, and physiologically it doesn’t make much sense when you really think about how corals work and what drip acclimation is trying to achieve.

 

[SHNICI]

Not trying to argue with you or doubt your experience, but I’m willing to bet that that wasn’t the cause of you losing those corals. In most cases, drip acclimation probably doesn’t cause much harm. But let me ask you this, do you dip your corals? And if so, do you slowly acclimate them to the dip? And if not, why do corals need to be drip acclimated to tank water and not the harsh chemicals in a coral dip? Again, not trying to argue or condescend, I know that drip acclimation is what a lot of people were taught, but logically, and physiologically it doesn’t make much sense when you really think about how corals work and what drip acclimation is trying to achieve.

From my experience in particular:
- about the DIP: I do dip them always after I acclimate them to the system I'll add them to. (I do DIP them in Revive, RX, Dettol and Iodine. All the way I describe here)
- not acclimating to the DIP: usually the coral has been stressed enough during the transport, that's correct. Each DIP takes me about 3-5min (only the Iodine dip I do for 15-20min) and pre-washing them with tank water between each DIP for 10 min to settle a bit after each DIP.
* As the DIP time is for a few minutes it can't take that long to acclimate it to the DIP solution.
-"....but logically, and physiologically it doesn’t make much sense..." Here can't agree: what if the Salinity is different (say I have 1.0265 S.G the system they come from is 1.0245 S.G.) that difference in the salinity is also very harmful for the corals, as the NaCL in the cells need to be lowered or raised slowly, or the coral can get it self in expanding or compressing the cells where there is difference in the salinity (forgot how to explain it scientific way).
* Also the difference in the Alk in the water with over 0.4-0.5dKH will be very harmful for the coral for sure. Why then raising the Alk or lowering it isn't good to be done straight away, and we have to do it usually for a minimum time frame if we have to raise it or lower it ?!
* What if your Alk is 9.5 dKH and the coral come from 8 dKH (the shops usual Alk to keep the corals more vibrant rather than growing, as this will add much on the shop expenses, I keep in the middle for my shop 8.7-9dKH)


P.S. I'm not arguing as well, but that I learned through the hobby for the last few years and since I have the shop as well. That way never fails me. Here are more experienced reefers than me, but my methods work perfectly for me and I prefer to spend that extra time rather than having issues. Next day almost always all of the corals are in good healthy condition for sale (only if the coral isn't been in good condition when I got it, then will need few days more).

 

[MaxTremors]

From my experience in particular:
- about the DIP: I do dip them always after I acclimate them to the system I'll add them to. (I do DIP them in Revive, RX, Dettol and Iodine. All the way I describe here)
- not acclimating to the DIP: usually the coral has been stressed enough during the transport, that's correct. Each DIP takes me about 3-5min (only the Iodine dip I do for 15-20min) and pre-washing them with tank water between each DIP for 10 min to settle a bit after each DIP.
* As the DIP time is for a few minutes it can't take that long to acclimate it to the DIP solution.
-"....but logically, and physiologically it doesn’t make much sense..." Here can't agree: what if the Salinity is different (say I have 1.0265 S.G the system they come from is 1.0245 S.G.) that difference in the salinity is also very harmful for the corals, as the NaCL in the cells need to be lowered or raised slowly, or the coral can get it self in expanding or compressing the cells where there is difference in the salinity (forgot how to explain it scientific way).
* Also the difference in the Alk in the water with over 0.4-0.5dKH will be very harmful for the coral for sure. Why then raising the Alk or lowering it isn't good to be done straight away, and we have to do it usually for a minimum time frame if we have to raise it or lower it ?!
* What if your Alk is 9.5 dKH and the coral come from 8 dKH (the shops usual Alk to keep the corals more vibrant rather than growing, as this will add much on the shop expenses, I keep in the middle for my shop 8.7-9dKH)


P.S. I'm not arguing as well, but that I learned through the hobby for the last few years and since I have the shop as well. That way never fails me. Here are more experienced reefers than me, but my methods work perfectly for me and I prefer to spend that extra time rather than having issues. Next day almost always all of the corals are in good healthy condition for sale (only if the coral isn't been in good condition when I got it, then will need few days more).

There are two ways that animals deal with osmotic pressure, mammals and most vertibrates are osmoregulators, meaning they actively regulate the osmotic pressure within their tissues, most marine inverts are osmoconformers, meaning their tissue and bodily fluids conform to changes in osmotic pressure/concentration of seawater. Osmoconformers have evolved to be able to withstand changes in osmotic pressure without having basic biological processes disrupted. Drip acclimating for an hour or two is going to make no difference (or an insignificant one) to the coral because the difference in the rate at which diffusion occurs when the difference in salinity is within a 2-3 points is so negligible. The coral isn’t going to be acclimated within an hour or two. As I said, drip acclimating in and of itself isn’t bad, and absent of any of the other considerations of moving/shipping corals, may even be beneficial. The issue is that negative effects of being out of flowing water vastly outweighs any positive of drip acclimating. Most people don’t have a pump going in the container that they drip acclimate in. In prolonging the amount of time out of flowing water in order to drip acclimate a coral that is capable of acclimating itself, you run the risk of cell death from the lack of respiration. Again, drip acclimation in a vacuum isn’t harmful and may even have a slight benefit (though within the normal range of reef tank parameters, it’s fairly insignificant), the issue is that the negative effects of prolonging the time out of flowing water that it takes to drip acclimate far outweigh any positives that drip acclimating may have.

 

[SHNICI]

There are two ways that animals deal with osmotic pressure, mammals and most vertibrates are osmoregulators, meaning they actively regulate the osmotic pressure within their tissues, most marine inverts are osmoconformers, meaning their tissue and bodily fluids conform to changes in osmotic pressure/concentration of seawater. Osmoconformers have evolved to be able to withstand changes in osmotic pressure without having basic biological processes disrupted. Drip acclimating for an hour or two is going to make no difference (or an insignificant one) to the coral because the difference in the rate at which diffusion occurs when the difference in salinity is within a 2-3 points is so negligible. The coral isn’t going to be acclimated within an hour or two. As I said, drip acclimating in and of itself isn’t bad, and absent of any of the other considerations of moving/shipping corals, may even be beneficial. The issue is that negative effects of being out of flowing water vastly outweighs any positive of drip acclimating. Most people don’t have a pump going in the container that they drip acclimate in. In prolonging the amount of time out of flowing water in order to drip acclimate a coral that is capable of acclimating itself, you run the risk of cell death from the lack of respiration. Again, drip acclimation in a vacuum isn’t harmful and may even have a slight benefit (though within the normal range of reef tank parameters, it’s fairly insignificant), the issue is that the negative effects of prolonging the time out of flowing water that it takes to drip acclimate far outweigh any positives that drip acclimating may have.

Ok, partially I may agree with what you state! But not with all, and I know what's best working for me, so I prefer to stick to it. At the end of the day we're looking for the best possible way to make our corals happy, and if there are some procedures making the corals unhealthy is up to us. Just I'm telling all from my personal experience and the customers of mine as well, that's all.
Prefer to take that extra steps (what's best working for me), rather than saving time but losing money (what already happen once, when I don't follow the procedure and only the DIP procedure and add them to the tank, to save time for sleeping as the next morning had to go to another wholesaler).

 

[BanjoBandito]

I still drip, but I would consider it a speed acclimation. I get bag water and an air stone in the bucket then drip 20-30 min (more like stream) until my bucket is full then I throw in some coral rx, swish it around get ready and in it goes.

it’s in a shady spot and hasn’t deteriorated more, so I’m hopefully he perks up. I usually don’t get scolys but I had a massive credit from AquaSD. So I splurged. It’s a coral I usually buy locally but I didn’t want a bleeding apple. I will keep an eye on it here.

the “no drip” acclimation is a pretty common argument. Most old timers just tell me to dunk em. Makes sense, if you are trapped in garage with a car running would you want me to slowly crack the door or just open it up and get you out? Old habits die hard.

 

[BanjoBandito]

Also UPS delivered it halfway across town to the wrong address so it was a stressful couple of hours. Some kid called my phone and said “I got this…..thing?…..of yours?” Lol.

 

[trietnguyen000]

What’s the update on your scoly? I got mine today via shipping and it is super deflated and showing skeleton also. Poor thing.

 

[Duncan62]

Drip acclimation for corals and anemones is at best unnecessary and at worst it’s detrimental. Corals take in and expel water through diffusion, they are self acclimating. The sooner you can get them into flowing water so they can properly respirate (and expel and get the free radicals that are a byproduct of photosynthesis away from their tissue) the better. After 6-8 hours in stagnant/still water, cells start dying from lack of respiration. Drip acclimation doesn’t help a coral acclimate, and delaying getting the coral into flowing water for another hour or two can be very detrimental.

Correct. I move corals around without acclimation quite often. That long acclimation is just like more shipping g time.