Need your opinion on switching salt to save $

[92Miata]

The brown stuff is clay red sea coral pro does not have this instant ocean is bad with it

It can effect your tank in a negative way

Evidence, please.

 

[sneekapeek]

So far I’ve done a water change with liveaquaria and the results have been good so far and knock on wood. It does frighten me that a salt could be a ticking time bomb. Thus making IO so appealing besides the price. But in reality, ease and convenience with tropic Marin keeps me going back for more. With rising costs I just don’t see myself wanting to reef without some cutbacks. So getting on those petco discounts have been a huge success overall. My last order I paid .24 cents a gallon for live aquaria and Instant ocean boxes.

 

[sneekapeek]

My IORC mixing barrel is about 2 years old, and other than a light dusting of brown on the top ridge, looks brand new. I leave mixed water for weeks. No problems. Mine is in the garage, so its unheated, and that may help. Most of the "IO is dirty" stuff is BRS FUD to sell more expensive salts.


Adjusting the dKH on salts up or down is also trivially easy. People shouldn't spend an extra $40 on a bucket of salt to avoid $2 of Sodium Bisulfate.


And yes, IO and RC have been rock solid for decades, and are being used by basically every public institution in the country, but somehow have gotten the reputation of low quality - while TM, with all their issues, is somehow the "gold standard". Marketing folks, it works.

I’m sure there’s much more to it like chelated calcium, how many traces are actually in each bucket etc. With todays icp testing and brilliant minds it seems like a revolving door on what people perceive to be the best. Nonetheless, I’m with you on marketing jargon. Can’t stand it. I was hoping someone has done some research and had some anecdotal evidence that this salt will be a good 1x1 comparison versus like IO you will have to manipulate. Fritz uses mined salt…Red Sea uses evaporated pools. Just some extra general knowledge that would make me think that this would be an easier transition from this salt to this salt.

 

[sneekapeek]

I use IO and don't get any kind of crud. RC can have some, but I do use some muriatic to get the alk down, which keeps the bucket and the pumps nice and clean - another reason to just do a few minutes worth of math and then the acid when you do your routine. Even if you get some crud, it does not hurt anything.

My biggest concern with crud is cleaning my tanks is a big pita, and you know how that ocd can manipulate the mind. When I see brown crud, I see something that isn’t pure, which makes me think it may directly effect something, even if it ain’t my corals it could effect my pump or titanium heating that I surely don’t wish to clean or pamper.

 

[polyppal]

I've been mixing IO in the same brute container for close to 25 years and I've never cleaned it.
There is minimal film of hardened crust but it never builds up over time.
To me this means nothing......I'm interested in a salt that's consistent over months/years.

I've had water sit mixing for 10-14 days & never had a problem.

Don't base your decision on some visual perception of how the salt mixes..........use one for 6-12 months and then decide if it works for you.

In all honestly, ill prob switch to instant ocean when I run out of my large supply of Coral Pro. Its all nearly chemically identical, with the addition of some calcium/alk I can easily adjust through dosing.

I think premium salts is something many of us have just been suckered into through marketing.

 

[mindme]

Water changes are great to do, but doing more than what is recommended doesn’t necessarily reap additional benefits, but will only cost more.

Why do you like to change a lot of water? If it is to lower organics, there are much more cost effective ways to do so.

I think downgrading the salt is a bad way to save money. Just do less water changes IMO.

I killed my 3 gallon pico reef years ago by doing too many water changes.

This was back in the "0 nitrates, 0 phosphate" days. Being a 3 gallon, I of course had no fish. I had easy coral in also, xenias, GSP and some zoa. They never seemed happy after the first few days. GSP would not open no matter what. So back then all I knew to do was...water change. And it didn't help. Water change, and it didn't help.

I mean on a tank that small a water change is almost like dipping a large cup in the water, so I thought this is going to be the most awesome 3 gallon tank ever. It all died.

Now I know that the reason it died was because of 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. I think the GSP didn't open up because with no nutrients in the water, the light would be bad. Kind of like running a low nutrient high light tank. And what little bit I had in there was getting removed with the water changes. And that's how you kill pulsating xenias and gsp.

I ended up turning that tank into a paludarium. I've been looking at it lately and I'm thinking I might turn it back into a pico tank now that I know what I did wrong before.

 

[sneekapeek]

I killed my 3 gallon pico reef years ago by doing too many water changes.

This was back in the "0 nitrates, 0 phosphate" days. Being a 3 gallon, I of course had no fish. I had easy coral in also, xenias, GSP and some zoa. They never seemed happy after the first few days. GSP would not open no matter what. So back then all I knew to do was...water change. And it didn't help. Water change, and it didn't help.

I mean on a tank that small a water change is almost like dipping a large cup in the water, so I thought this is going to be the most awesome 3 gallon tank ever. It all died.

Now I know that the reason it died was because of 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. I think the GSP didn't open up because with no nutrients in the water, the light would be bad. Kind of like running a low nutrient high light tank. And what little bit I had in there was getting removed with the water changes. And that's how you kill pulsating xenias and gsp.

I ended up turning that tank into a paludarium. I've been looking at it lately and I'm thinking I might turn it back into a pico tank now that I know what I did wrong before.

Best thing I’ve done in a while is dose nitrate and phosphate. I don’t feed nearly as much to keep up parameters and with dry rock it’s hard to create that saturation point where the rock equalizes with the phosphate in water.
Food for thought, I always ask the question how many times does the ocean do a water change in a given area? The answer is simple, but yet so complex. Tide goes in tide goes out. I found it is so easy to balance nutrients by dosing nitrates/phosphates. Unfortunately there isn’t a clear answer as to the frequency and duration of those nutrients need to be osmosis and diffused with coral. All we know is you keep it stable at such parameter you won’t kill it or it will thrive!

 

[sneekapeek]

In all honestly, ill prob switch to instant ocean when I run out of my large supply of Coral Pro. Its all nearly chemically identical, with the addition of some calcium/alk I can easily adjust through dosing.

I think premium salts is something many of us have just been suckered into through marketing.

I thought this through with great debate. It’s a big red flag why someone would pay more for the same result. The only thing holding me back is I can get liveaquaria for same cost and I don’t have to dose or manipulate. So far I’m running liveaquaria and things seem pretty good so far. I’ve used IO in the past, just can’t seem to get over the hurdle of extra work.

 

[homer1475]

The brown stuff is clay red sea coral pro does not have this instant ocean is bad with it

It can effect your tank in a negative way

Proof?

If it such a bad salt, ask yourself why it is the most sold salt(by weight) in the world. Ask yourself why so many research facilities, and public aquariums around the world use it. Ask yourself why so many tank of the month and/or reef of the month tanks all have used IO.

I've used every salt on the market over the years, only thing that makes a difference, is the money that I keep in my wallet not falling for marketing hype, or peer pressure from fellow reefers that tell me my reef won't thrive without the expensive reef salt.

 

[homer1475]

Evidence, please.

Not going to happen, because there is none.

I wonder how they will explain the brown crud in tropic marin now? You know that salt that has pharmaceutical grade ingredients, and "mixes clean without any residue". If it's so harmful(we do not know if the brown crud is the same we see in IO that we know is harmless, just unsightly) why do we not see the death we are seeing with the brown crud people are now seeing in TM?

 

[Tankkeepers]

Proof?

If it such a bad salt, ask yourself why it is the most sold salt(by weight) in the world. Ask yourself why so many research facilities, and public aquariums around the world use it. Ask yourself why so many tank of the month and/or reef of the month tanks all have used IO.

I've used every salt on the market over the years, only thing that makes a difference, is the money that I keep in my wallet not falling for marketing hype, or peer pressure from fellow reefers that tell me my reef won't thrive without the expensive reef salt.

Send it to a lab and have it checked as I did

There are a ton of user on this fourm alone with the same reports

So before you attack someone go read and do some research io is one of the worst when it comes to clay

"Salt mixes start out by being mined from the earth, evaporated from seawater or refined from synthetic salts. They all can potentially contain impurities such as chelators, clays and clarifiers that will produce precipitate and brown organic crud on the storage tanks walls. Some aquarium salts can even create a brown foam on the surface, not exactly ideal considering the saltwater is supposed to be clean and ready for use in your precious saltwater tank!"

Quote from bulkreefsupply

And since there are 100s of user All reporting the same thing the lab I sent it to said the same

And I used io for 10 years with not great results since the switch I have had way better growth no brown crap and

Clay minerals are composed essentially of silica, alumina or magnesia or both, and water, but iron substitutes for aluminum and magnesium in varying degrees, and appreciable quantities of potassium, sodium, and calcium are frequently present as well.

So if you want this in your tank go for it I'll stick to what works

Not hype when it's tried tested and true

 

[Tankkeepers]

Let's also not mention the amount of people reporting plastic flakes in io salt mixes

 

[homer1475]

Send it to a lab and have it checked as I did

There are a ton of user on this fourm alone with the same reports

So before you attack someone go read and do some research io is one of the worst when it comes to clay

"Salt mixes start out by being mined from the earth, evaporated from seawater or refined from synthetic salts. They all can potentially contain impurities such as chelators, clays and clarifiers that will produce precipitate and brown organic crud on the storage tanks walls. Some aquarium salts can even create a brown foam on the surface, not exactly ideal considering the saltwater is supposed to be clean and ready for use in your precious saltwater tank!"

Quote from bulkreefsupply

And since there are 100s of user All reporting the same thing the lab I sent it to said the same

And I used io for 10 years with not great results since the switch I have had way better growth no brown crap and

Clay minerals are composed essentially of silica, alumina or magnesia or both, and water, but iron substitutes for aluminum and magnesium in varying degrees, and appreciable quantities of potassium, sodium, and calcium are frequently present as well.

So if you want this in your tank go for it I'll stick to what works

Not hype when it's tried tested and true

WOW you just found out what everyone on the internet has been trying to figure out for years! Even our resident chemist doesn't know what it is. Congrats to you and BRS for finally figuring it out!

FYI, a quote from BRS doesn't make it so. LOL they claimed vibrant was the end all be all algae product. They don't even sell it anymore. Quoting BRS on salt, you lost all credibility with everyone on the internet. You do realize BRS is out to sell you stuff? What do you think they make the most profit margin on? Certainly not IO thats $24 for 200G. Guess what? it's probably TM thats $100 for 200g. So guess which salt they will tell you is the best? Simple marketing there.

Like I already said, if it's so bad, explain why it's the most salt sold worldwide, and why nearly every public aquarium, and scientific research facility uses it?

All you have shown us is anecdotal evidence that it's a bad salt. Show me some solid proof it's bad for tanks.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Just for good measure



Experiments showed the toxic algae wasn't the only thing affected by the clay. One experiment found "significant negative impacts of clay on filtration" on filter-feeding bivalves such as scallops, clams and other crustaceans. The cure seemed as bad as the disease.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/Clay-may-combat-Florida-s-Red-Tide-but-opposition-ended-experiments-here-15-years-ago_171966607/%3FoutputType%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiLjK7I5Oj3AhXGMc0KHSgEBdg4HhAWegQIDRAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZzrkDoHBOWJxtuQDc5P7e

 

[homer1475]

Not hype when it's tried tested and true

Might want to head your last statement here. IO has been around long before any of the new "reef salt" that cost as much as 5x what IO costs here.

Tried, true, and tested.

You don't want to use it, thats fine, but to say it's crap salt and can have a negative effect on your tank is just plain false information.

 

[Tankkeepers]

WOW you just found out what everyone on the internet has been trying to figure out for years! Even our resident chemist doesn't know what it is. Congrats to you and BRS for finally figuring it out!

FYI, a quote from BRS doesn't make it so. LOL they claimed vibrant was the end all be all algae product. They don't even sell it anymore. Quoting BRS on salt, you lost all credibility with everyone on the internet. You do realize BRS is out to sell you stuff? What do you think they make the most profit margin on? Certainly not IO thats $24 for 200G. Guess what? it's probably TM thats $100 for 200g. So guess which salt they will tell you is the best? Simple marketing there.

Like I already said, if it's so bad, explain why it's the most salt sold worldwide, and why nearly every public aquarium, and scientific research facility uses it?

All you have shown us is anecdotal evidence that it's a bad salt. Show me some solid proof it's bad for tanks.

Then how about a scientific report

 

[homer1475]

Then how about a scientific report

Where?

 

[homer1475]

Just for good measure



Experiments showed the toxic algae wasn't the only thing affected by the clay. One experiment found "significant negative impacts of clay on filtration" on filter-feeding bivalves such as scallops, clams and other crustaceans. The cure seemed as bad as the disease.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/Clay-may-combat-Florida-s-Red-Tide-but-opposition-ended-experiments-here-15-years-ago_171966607/%3FoutputType%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiLjK7I5Oj3AhXGMc0KHSgEBdg4HhAWegQIDRAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZzrkDoHBOWJxtuQDc5P7e

Might want to read what you googled before posting it. Phosphatic clay left over from phosphate industry. LOL not even related to whats in the salt.

 

[Tankkeepers]

Might want to head your last statement here. IO has been around long before any of the new "reef salt" that cost as much as 5x what IO costs here.

Tried, true, and tested.

You don't want to use it, thats fine, but to say it's crap salt and can have a negative effect on your tank is just plain false information.

Agin there is a scientific report on the positive and negative effect of clay

And it's not false information when it's a fact

That might be your opinion but that does not make what you think true

Again go read the 100s of reports on this fourm alone rather then using your personal opinion to attack and try and discredit someone

 

[Tankkeepers]

Then how about a scientific report

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/Clay-may-combat-Florida-s-Red-Tide-but-opposition-ended-experiments-here-15-years-ago_171966607/%3FoutputType%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiLjK7I5Oj3AhXGMc0KHSgEBdg4HhAWegQIDRAB&usg=AOvVaw2ZzrkDoHBOWJxtuQDc5P7e

Where?

As I already posted this shows both the positives and negatives of clay in a marine environment