Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[skyrne_isk]

Mine work great. Literally never had a failure even with ~7 year old used apex LITE units. I recently got an ATK just to see what people were complaining about, and haven’t seen a single issue either.

I have:
apex lite
3x apex DOS
2x apex 2016 kits
Extra EB8s and EB832s

and a variety of modules, and have never needed to use the warranty. Customer service has been awesome, with their screen sharing to diagnose some of my weird router settings.

Same. Not sure where these awful experiences come from - not that I doubt anyone. Have had an Apex Classic for what seems like 10 years now (but sure fact check me on when the classic first came out). But I have my original model, screen still works - and it's been abused to hell - water spillage and all kinds of self inflicted stupidity. Always worked flawlessly. True story, finally upgraded firmware this past spring to have fusion and the app interoperability - pretty nice to get some new free functionality on an old toy. Maybe it's a newer thing on the newer 2016/gray models? I dunno, my classic has been great....

 

[smartwater101]

How many times has your ABS module in your car failed or better yet your cars computer? You will most likely buy and then sell a car ten years later and never had one single computer failure. Heck you probably forgot that it was in there controlling dozens of engine parameters and monitoring dozens of things. It's way more complicated than an aquarium controller yet they are typically 100% bullet proof for 15-20 years.

Agreed.

I wonder if maybe we're all so used to replacing equipment, that people turn a blind eye to faulty gadgets. Things is, we're usually replacing items because of what the exposure to water/salt does to degrade things over time. (That said: even some stuff used directly with water can be very solid.)

But with a controller, that replacement (or at least repair) shouldn't be as often as it is. I spent more time monitoring/fixing/worrying about my Apex than any hardware/software I've ever used before. And I've used some pretty shoddy/cheap stuff in my PC builds in my early years lol

Even as a supposed "hobby grade" item, the Apex price doesn't reflect its performance. Certainly not long term. Sounds like Classic users have had a much better experience though.

I don't expect these controllers to be 100% set-and-forget, but I'd like to spend more "tank-time" with the occasional calibration, regular maintenance, or just starring at the thing lol

noopsyche

I was joking more about the trolling I was getting before. But anyway, I've always been curious about noopsyche, but the reviews seem very mixed.

 

[Thales]

Thanks for the response
now would you think it’s safe to say that your opinion of this product is different then mine because of the donation and because you are friends with Terrance?

Nope. If it didn't work in my applications and for me, I wouldn't be saying it does. I also paid for a bunch of the home equipment. The equipment, donated or paid for, has saved my home reef several times and has saved the spawning lab several times (as well as making the spawning possible at all). It works, so I am a fan.
I have been given some stuff for free over the years that didn't work, and I don't go around championing it.

And if you have a problem with your equipment it’s not really a problem as you could call and get an answer or solution relatively quick compared to me.

Sure, which is why I try not to talk about that part of the experience. I have had very few problems with the equipment itself.

I’m not saying that’s a bad thing for you and congrats you have this at your disposal I mean you were one of the first with a trident that’s a nice problem to have

You bet it is, but also remember that I got one of the first Tridents because of the work I did with the prototype, so it made sense for me to be in the beta at the beginning. Again, if the trident didn't work for me, I wouldn't be talking about it as if it did.

But when it comes to you telling us your side of how you see the product it is way different then anyone of us will ever have.

In regards to support and product accessibility, sure - though I get told product isn't available for me too. Sometimes it's great/hard to be a 'name' in the industry (most of the time no one cares). I am aware of these perception issues and try not to talk about stuff which I have different experiences from most people.
In regards to product use and reliability, it is pretty much the same because I haven't had any of the problems other people talk about - for me the products just kinda work.

 

[smartwater101]

Same. Not sure where these awful experiences come from - not that I doubt anyone. Have had an Apex Classic for what seems like 10 years now (but sure fact check me on when the classic first came out). But I have my original model, screen still works - and it's been abused to hell - water spillage and all kinds of self inflicted stupidity. Always worked flawlessly. True story, finally upgraded firmware this past spring to have fusion and the app interoperability - pretty nice to get some new free functionality on an old toy. Maybe it's a newer thing on the newer 2016/gray models? I dunno, my classic has been great....

If there is one trend I have noticed, its that Classic users seem to have had a much better experience. Maybe due to it being simpler? Not sure, but it def seems to be the case. That was partly why I was considering keeping the Classic brain for Radion control.

 

[MnFish1]

LOL! If the equipment didn't work for the project, I wouldn't be saying much about it either way!

I have no doubt that it works - bit - scientifically im surprised that you wouldn't say if it didnt work (and I believe it did work)

 

[MnFish1]

If there is one trend I have noticed, its that Classic users seem to have had a much better experience. Maybe due to it being simpler? Not sure, but it def seems to be the case. That was partly why I was considering keeping the Classic brain for Radion control.

I concur

 

[Thales]

I have no doubt that it works - bit - scientifically im surprised that you wouldn't say if it didnt work (and I believe it did work)

Oh - just that there would be no project, so there wouldn't be much to talk about.

 

[MnFish1]

Nope. If it didn't work in my applications and for me, I wouldn't be saying it does. I also paid for a bunch of the home equipment. The equipment, donated or paid for, has saved my home reef several times and has saved the spawning lab several times (as well as making the spawning possible at all). It works, so I am a fan.
I have been given some stuff for free over the years that didn't work, and I don't go around championing it.



Sure, which is why I try not to talk about that part of the experience. I have had very few problems with the equipment itself.



You bet it is, but also remember that I got one of the first Tridents because of the work I did with the prototype, so it made sense for me to be in the beta at the beginning. Again, if the trident didn't work for me, I wouldn't be talking about it as if it did.



In regards to support and product accessibility, sure - though I get told product isn't available for me too. Sometimes it's great/hard to be a 'name' in the industry (most of the time no one cares). I am aware of these perception issues and try not to talk about stuff which I have different experiences from most people.
In regards to product use and reliability, it is pretty much the same because I haven't had any of the problems other people talk about - for me the products just kinda work.

@Thales i5 com;l3tly trustworthy

 

[Thales]

Same. Not sure where these awful experiences come from - not that I doubt anyone. Have had an Apex Classic for what seems like 10 years now (but sure fact check me on when the classic first came out). But I have my original model, screen still works - and it's been abused to hell - water spillage and all kinds of self inflicted stupidity. Always worked flawlessly. True story, finally upgraded firmware this past spring to have fusion and the app interoperability - pretty nice to get some new free functionality on an old toy. Maybe it's a newer thing on the newer 2016/gray models? I dunno, my classic has been great....

I hated the classic because there was the known possibility of bricking it on FW upgrade. I did just that out of the box and it made me not really trust it for much more than turning off and on lights, and turning them off if the tank got too hot. Fusion and the 2016 Apex brought about much more functionality and ease of use, and that is when I started doing much more with it.

 

[TheHarold]

@Thales i5 com;l3tly trustworthy

MnFiSh CaNnOt UsE sPeLl ChEcK

 

[justingraham]

Nope. If it didn't work in my applications and for me, I wouldn't be saying it does. I also paid for a bunch of the home equipment. The equipment, donated or paid for, has saved my home reef several times and has saved the spawning lab several times (as well as making the spawning possible at all). It works, so I am a fan.
I have been given some stuff for free over the years that didn't work, and I don't go around championing it.



Sure, which is why I try not to talk about that part of the experience. I have had very few problems with the equipment itself.



You bet it is, but also remember that I got one of the first Tridents because of the work I did with the prototype, so it made sense for me to be in the beta at the beginning. Again, if the trident didn't work for me, I wouldn't be talking about it as if it did.



In regards to support and product accessibility, sure - though I get told product isn't available for me too. Sometimes it's great/hard to be a 'name' in the industry (most of the time no one cares). I am aware of these perception issues and try not to talk about stuff which I have different experiences from most people.
In regards to product use and reliability, it is pretty much the same because I haven't had any of the problems other people talk about - for me the products just kinda work.

Again Thanks for the response

I appreciate everything u do for this hobby I have listened to a lot of ur macna talks and do enjoy your sense of humor. And your last talk I paid close attention to as I really want to have a spawn in my tank.

But in my mind I think u get different treatment then me when it comes to this product. I mean u think it’s not a possibility they make sure you get the best product they make and have gone over it twice before they send it to you?

quick list of products for me that have gone bad
Wav
Cor 20. X2
Solenoid
Head unit
Display
Atk x 3
Flow monitors
Optical sensors
Salinity probe
1 link

All in three years luckily I was always home but my experience is a lot different then yours on a positive note Neptune’s customer service has always been great to me even when I’m mad that my return pump has broke for the second time in two years and in my mind made a horrible situation into a bearable one but if I didn’t have a back up return I would be furious

I believe I’m done buying Neptune stuff (I think the only thing I don’t have is the trident and moon lights) for ever and if I didn’t have so much invested I would prolly have switched to GHL already

 

[C. Eymann]

Compared to the old Neptune Aquacontroller III and ACIIIpro's I have worked with in the past the Apex systems have been much less problematic. Software is much more user friendly as well
I have had a display go bad on an old clients tank that needed to be replaced, but other than that no complaints/problems.

The Aquacontrollers of the past were a pain to deal with, if a unit randomly decided it needed a firmware update it would shut down all the outlets, and the DC8s had major issues esp with anything drawing lots of power, replacing the DC8 with 2 DC4 HDs were pretty much the only long term fix.

 

[MrPike]

I have 4 apex units for service accounts, not one of them is reliable. Salinity probe, junk. Optical sensor, junk. ATK system, junk. Fmm module, junk. Wxm, junk. Don't even talk to me about their wifi reliability.

Get yourself some standard timers, a ranco controller for a titanium heater, mechanical float switches and call it a day.

 

[C. Eymann]

I have 4 apex units for service accounts, not one of them is reliable. Salinity probe, junk. Optical sensor, junk. ATK system, junk. Fmm module, junk. Wxm, junk. Don't even talk to me about their wifi reliability.

Get yourself some standard timers, a ranco controller for a titanium heater, mechanical float switches and call it a day.

Speaking as a former "service tech" myself I can sort of agree with what you are saying (replace mech floats with an osmolator and I'm there) but as you know clients can be demanding! One of mine wanted his synced with his home automation system, also wanted EVERYTHING run by the controller, I pleaded with him to put the main return pumps on standard outlets but nope! SMH,
Luckily I dont do service anymore, so I cant give much experience on the long term reliability of Apex's, but they are much better than Neptune's older ACs.
Regardless, when you are spending that kinda cheese on equipment you expect it to work correctly and reliably, I still think Neptune has some brushing up to do on that.

 

[Thales]

Again Thanks for the response

I appreciate everything u do for this hobby I have listened to a lot of ur macna talks and do enjoy your sense of humor. And your last talk I paid close attention to as I really want to have a spawn in my tank.

Thanks for the kind words, and yes...SPAWN! By the way the emoji for spawing is the taco.

But in my mind I think u get different treatment then me when it comes to this product. I mean u think it’s not a possibility they make sure you get the best product they make and have gone over it twice before they send it to you?

Maybe on the Trident - I got one of the first ones in the beta wild when they were all being not mass produced. Besides that, I can't imagine that they would take any time to make something special for me when they can just pull it off the shelf from inventory. I mean, it is possible, but it is really hard for me to believe.

quick list of products for me that have gone bad
Wav
Cor 20. X2
Solenoid
Head unit
Display
Atk x 3
Flow monitors
Optical sensors
Salinity probe
1 link

Bummer. I think I have had one WAV go goofy. And of course the salinity probe is tricky.

All in three years luckily I was always home but my experience is a lot different then yours

Right. And that is the trick - what is the reality compared to our particular experience. I am fascinated by that boundary, which is one of the things that keeps me coming to the forums.

on a positive note Neptune’s customer service has always been great to me even when I’m mad that my return pump has broke for the second time in two years and in my mind made a horrible situation into a bearable one but if I didn’t have a back up return I would be furious

I am happy/sad for you. I learned a long time ago to have a back up for anything important to your system. At home, I have a spare APEX in case something goes wrong (I may even load it up with my current programming just in case). Having the back up means I am down for as long as the swap out takes, rather than being at the mercy of the post office. But I do that for all critical equipment - I have spare return pumps, closed loop pumps, in tank water motion pumps, etc not because I think that any of that equipment is crap, but because I think anything can take a dump. Heck, for my beaded lizard I have a spare heating element!

Thanks for the conversation!

 

[robbyg]

Again Thanks for the response

I appreciate everything u do for this hobby I have listened to a lot of ur macna talks and do enjoy your sense of humor. And your last talk I paid close attention to as I really want to have a spawn in my tank.

But in my mind I think u get different treatment then me when it comes to this product. I mean u think it’s not a possibility they make sure you get the best product they make and have gone over it twice before they send it to you?

quick list of products for me that have gone bad
Wav
Cor 20. X2
Solenoid
Head unit
Display
Atk x 3
Flow monitors
Optical sensors
Salinity probe
1 link

All in three years luckily I was always home but my experience is a lot different then yours on a positive note Neptune’s customer service has always been great to me even when I’m mad that my return pump has broke for the second time in two years and in my mind made a horrible situation into a bearable one but if I didn’t have a back up return I would be furious

I believe I’m done buying Neptune stuff (I think the only thing I don’t have is the trident and moon lights) for ever and if I didn’t have so much invested I would prolly have switched to GHL already

Of course they will treat him differently. Its no fault of his. I get better treatment from Aquatronica because i did a few how to videos for them in English and I also sent them some suggestions on features to add and they did add many of them.

I will certainly tell people if I thought one of their products sucked, but the owner is so prideful that he will not release a product unless the core functionality is perfect. Now that core functionality is what creates stability and reliability. If your looking for semi transparent 3D graphs then Aquatronica is not your company. They also have a stigma on them for poor customer service in the USA. Mainly because the dealers they have chosen in the past were too small to deal with a company with this many products and also because Aquatronica has a business structure that is very European and not as straight forward as what American distributors expect.

On the flip side, the problem I find with Neptune is that they go for the eye candy and spend very little time getting the core functionality working properly. Take their flow monitoring kit as an example. Why on earth would you use a propeller based flow sensor for measuring flow in an aquarium? This is not the 1980's! We all know that prop based system impede flow, are not accurate, are subject to crud build up and from time to time stuff that gets sucked into the pump will get caught in the impeller. That is why GHL and Aquatronica both use the Vortex method for measurement. It's light years ahead of props because it is very accurate has no moving parts, almost no impact on flow and never needs to be cleaned or serviced because it's impervious to deposits.

Going back to what @smartwater101 said. If you bought the Apex FMK you would probably walk away with the notion that Flow meters are terrible and a waste of time for an aquarium owner to buy. While the truth is the exact opposite.

 

[User1]

Thanks for the response
now would you think it’s safe to say that your opinion of this product is different then mine because of the donation and because you are friends with Terrance?
And if you have a problem with your equipment it’s not really a problem as you could call and get an answer or solution relatively quick compared to me.

I’m not saying that’s a bad thing for you and congrats you have this at your disposal I mean you were one of the first with a trident that’s a nice problem to have

But when it comes to you telling us your side of how you see the product it is way different then anyone of us will ever have.

He also runs it on his home aquarium.

 

[User1]

your opinion of this product is different then mine because of the donation and because you are friends with Terrance?

This bit is probably uncalled for.

 

[User1]

And to contribute back to the tread and to the OP - if you haven't done so give @Ditto 's thread a read on swapping controllers. I've read through it and it is a good source if you haven't already done so. Very helpful they are.

 

[justingraham]

This bit is probably uncalled for.

How so
nothing I said was wrong or even out of line

I asked Thales valid questions from someone who has seen him on let’s talk reef being handed one of the first tridents and who has been on some of the same apex threads I have read on this site always saying how he like Neptune products so things I wanted to know I asked him and he gave me honest responses
You wouldn’t want to know if someone has a hand in a product before you listen to how they praise it?