Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[User1]

How so
nothing I said was wrong or even out of line

I asked Thales valid questions from someone who has seen him on let’s talk reef being handed one of the first tridents and who has been on some of the same apex threads I have read on this site always saying how he like Neptune products so things I wanted to know I asked him and he gave me honest responses
You wouldn’t want to know if someone has a hand in a product before you listen to how they praise it?

There are people in this hobby / community that are more involved be it Thales, Julian Sprung, Fenner, or someone like Mr. Saltwater or what ever the correct name is. Depending on their expertise and/or specialization of course they could get a product before others. Just like some may be so called sponsored because their build thread gets more views than others. However, Thales has been pretty clear every time something like this comes up that he is a fan of the product. Hell, I know I do - I own one. I would be a fool if I didn't say my opinions are somewhat biased to also include the reef angel.

Every hobby I'm in I'm probably biased. HPED/Closed track sessions - yes. Biased towards Mustangs since that is what I drove. Diving? Zeagle. RC airplanes? Futaba. List goes on and on. If I am a honest person or at least trying to be a good one I'll clearly say that I own or am partial. But it isn't going to mean I'm going to lie about a product to make it look better.

I read it as a dig at the person because they have both a professional and personal friendship and I do not see how that matters. If that was not the intent fair enough.

 

[smartwater101]

There are people in this hobby / community that are more involved be it Thales, Julian Sprung, Fenner, or someone like Mr. Saltwater or what ever the correct name is. Depending on their expertise and/or specialization of course they could get a product before others. Just like some may be so called sponsored because their build thread gets more views than others. However, Thales has been pretty clear every time something like this comes up that he is a fan of the product. Hell, I know I do - I own one. I would be a fool if I didn't say my opinions are somewhat biased to also include the reef angel.

Every hobby I'm in I'm probably biased. HPED/Closed track sessions - yes. Biased towards Mustangs since that is what I drove. Diving? Zeagle. RC airplanes? Futaba. List goes on and on. If I am a honest person or at least trying to be a good one I'll clearly say that I own or am partial. But it isn't going to mean I'm going to lie about a product to make it look better.

I read it as a dig at the person because they have both a professional and personal friendship and I do not see how that matters. If that was not the intent fair enough.

IDK honestly... I think his question is reasonable. There are many people that may not realize he is speaking about products he gets for free, or is closer to people higher up in these companies. Similar to Echotech sponsoring a build for Reefbuilders/MrSaltwater/Ect. Its definitely relevant. You admitted some bias, which is great. That kind of objectivity and context is important! I clearly have my bias (down with Neptune!!) lol But we're all human, and asking someone to acknowledge a little bias seems reasonable.

What year mustang? 2007 here (sadface.) I want a Mach1 so bad. But I can't decide if I'd go with a '69 or the boxier 70s. My dad is a mechanic and has a '64 Falcon so I grew up around cars and car shows. There is definitely a bias for old Fords.

 

[vangvace]

There are people in this hobby / community that are more involved be it Thales, Julian Sprung, Fenner, or someone like Mr. Saltwater or what ever the correct name is. Depending on their expertise and/or specialization of course they could get a product before others. Just like some may be so called sponsored because their build thread gets more views than others. However, Thales has been pretty clear every time something like this comes up that he is a fan of the product. Hell, I know I do - I own one. I would be a fool if I didn't say my opinions are somewhat biased to also include the reef angel.

So I watch quite a bit of tech review Youtubers and they are very specific in prefacing if they product was given or bought and the tone of the review differs accordingly. That said, those personalities don't normally frequent tech forums to my knowledge so it might be a moot point or a bad comparison.

I didn't know who Thales was and thought he was a Neptune employee to be honest, but watching his recent MACNA presentation and this thread has taught me more about his online persona; positively... not enough to watch the podcast or return to Neptune though.

 

[MnFish1]

MnFiSh CaNnOt UsE sPeLl ChEcK

Its the lag on the browser LOLOLOL. It is so far behind

 

[DarthSimon]

No product has a 100% No Failure rate! Anywhere.... For every complaint or negative post you read, you don’t hear about the 100 happy customers that don’t have issues....

I am heavily invested into the Apex Ecco System on my Aquarium’s , things have gone wrong, modules have died after a few years. For the most part 95 percent of what I have bought from Neptune Systems since 2007 has lasted. I have no complaints......

 

[MnFish1]

IDK honestly... I think his question is reasonable. There are many people that may not realize he is speaking about products he gets for free, or is closer to people higher up in these companies. Similar to Echotech sponsoring a build for Reefbuilders/MrSaltwater/Ect. Its definitely relevant. You admitted some bias, which is great. That kind of objectivity and context is important! I clearly have my bias (down with Neptune!!) lol But we're all human, and asking someone to acknowledge a little bias seems reasonable.

What year mustang? 2007 here (sadface.) I want a Mach1 so bad. But I can't decide if I'd go with a '69 or the boxier 70s. My dad is a mechanic and has a '64 Falcon so I grew up around cars and car shows. There is definitely a bias for old Fords.

@Thales - though we have disagreed - I believe is an entirely honest/upfront person - I do not think he would let personal bias, etc into his opinions. If you look at his videos - they speak for themselves (so why am I talking) - in any case - He is one of few people that when I read - I trust

 

[smartwater101]

@Thales - though we have disagreed - I believe is an entirely honest/upfront person - I do not think he would let personal bias, etc into his opinions. If you look at his videos - they speak for themselves (so why am I talking) - in any case - He is one of few people that when I read - I trust

Just to be clear it's nothing against him. We're all human and we all have bias.
I'm just saying there is context that is relevant.

 

[MnFish1]

No product has a 100% No Failure rate! Anywhere.... For every complaint or negative post you read, you don’t hear about the 100 happy customers that don’t have issues....

I am heavily invested into the Apex Ecco System on my Aquarium’s , things have gone wrong, modules have died after a few years. For the most part 95 percent of what I have bought from Neptune Systems since 2007 has lasted. I have no complaints......

This is absolutely correct - so - I wonder why so many people rely (despite multiple videos recommending against it on YouTube) on these 'systems' to warn them - they work great - seriously - until they dont work. What interests me is the number of people who keep asking/desiring more and more automation - until those automations fail and then they complain (not you @DarthSimon ) - but in general. For me - the MOST problems I had in my tank ever is when I relied on automation - maybe I did it incorrectly - (I dont think so - but maybe)..... Every module one buys is a potential failure point - and it (as multiple people have said) will fail..... Unfortunately for me - its been when I'm away from my tank, Not suggesting anyone change or do anything differently - just saying caveat emptor

 

[robbyg]

So I watch quite a bit of tech review Youtubers and they are very specific in prefacing if they product was given or bought and the tone of the review differs accordingly. That said, those personalities don't normally frequent tech forums to my knowledge so it might be a moot point or a bad comparison.

I didn't know who Thales was and thought he was a Neptune employee to be honest, but watching his recent MACNA presentation and this thread has taught me more about his online persona; positively... not enough to watch the podcast or return to Neptune though.

Many people have a geniune postive experience with a product while others have a terrible experience.

@Thales - though we have disagreed - I believe is an entirely honest/upfront person - I do not think he would let personal bias, etc into his opinions. If you look at his videos - they speak for themselves (so why am I talking) - in any case - He is one of few people that when I read - I trust

I found nothing wrong @Thales statements. Most people who like a product will typically try to lean a bit towards the glass being half full. Also most of the people who like it will take the time and effort to read and understand all the best practices to make it work as intended. They can only talk about their experiences and those may sometimes be vastly different than what some other people have experienced. All we can ask for in these turbulent times is that we all respectfully converse with one another. Even the little Cat Fight that happened two pages ago and was broken up before I could get my Popcorn, was very mild compared to the disrespectful posts I see on so many other forums. BTW I also see nothing wrong with someone mentioning the other persons affiliation with a company, so long as they don't imply that everything the person is saying is untrue.
In this case no one implied that, so lets just move on.

 

[robbyg]

No product has a 100% No Failure rate! Anywhere.... For every complaint or negative post you read, you don’t hear about the 100 happy customers that don’t have issues....

I am heavily invested into the Apex Ecco System on my Aquarium’s , things have gone wrong, modules have died after a few years. For the most part 95 percent of what I have bought from Neptune Systems since 2007 has lasted. I have no complaints......

That is an extremely broad statement. What do you mean by not having a "100% no failure rate"
Sure I would agree that every product will have failures but that has nothing to do with this argument and it has nothing to do with the design of any device. It's all about MTTF and that is what is bothering a lot of the people. In case you don't know MTTF is "Mean Time To Failure" and that is what good manufactures strive to have high numbers with, not 100% perfection because that is impossible to achieve.

 

[dieselkeeper]

This is absolutely correct - so - I wonder why so many people rely (despite multiple videos recommending against it on YouTube) on these 'systems' to warn them - they work great - seriously - until they dont work. What interests me is the number of people who keep asking/desiring more and more automation - until those automations fail and then they complain (not you @DarthSimon ) - but in general. For me - the MOST problems I had in my tank ever is when I relied on automation - maybe I did it incorrectly - (I dont think so - but maybe)..... Every module one buys is a potential failure point - and it (as multiple people have said) will fail..... Unfortunately for me - its been when I'm away from my tank, Not suggesting anyone change or do anything differently - just saying caveat emptor

I have my return pump on a separate circuit. The rest of the tank is on a circuit of its own on the apex. The return pump is plugged into an outlet on the room circuit. That way if the controller fails, the tank still has water moving to supply oxygen. My Apex failed after 5 years. I brought another one. Seemed best bang for the buck.

 

[Thales]

@Thales - though we have disagreed - I believe is an entirely honest/upfront person - I do not think he would let personal bias, etc into his opinions. If you look at his videos - they speak for themselves (so why am I talking) - in any case - He is one of few people that when I read - I trust

Thanks so much - you have no idea how much that means for me. And, I don't even know what you were responding to.
Everyone has bias, and I try to examine mine often. WIth Apex stuff I am pretty comfortable that the support of Neptune Systems and Ecotech Marine do not color my opinions on their products - in fact, I sought them out; I wasn't given a free product about which to write a review; we went to pay for the products and the companies decided to support the project by giving us the equipment gratis.*



* A dash and two semicolons, is that allowed? I think it might be, but prolly not

 

[Thales]

It's all about MTTF and that is what is bothering a lot of the people.

Do we have the numbers to allow this to bother us?

 

[robbyg]

Do we have the numbers to allow this to bother us?

You would have to ask Neptune for that!
We can only go by the level of complaints presented to us on the forums and by friends in the Hobby.

 

[WallyB]

WOW. This subject caught my attention and I glanced thru this thread a bit.

I am getting concerned about Neptunes Component Quality since a Friend of mine had his new Model of Apex break while I was watching his tank during a Month away in Europe. It luckily broke few days before he returned, so some manual re-config kept things going. Few weeks later after he got controller repaired, he told me an optical sensor also failed.

I've had apex for over a Decade and it's been the best. Yes there are many modern alternative ways to turn on a outlet.. but that's not the discussion here.

I still have a Apex Jr, and one Apex sys Classic. I have classic eb8 bars, PM modules,etc .....all the original Apex stuff made of Metal.

NOTHING HAS FAILED ME (In a salty, humid fish room, that has been torn apart a few times to upgrade tanks).

However Last Year I did buy a PM2 module to expand my setup and it came with the newer color to match the new apex controller line. It arrived new Dead on Arrival.
Sure Apex Took care of me quickly, and mailed a replacement quickly. I paid for it, but when they got the defective one back, I got full refund. AND I SPECIFICALLY asked to send me the Original Black Colored PM2 module to match my setup (and to ensure I got from the Original Line).

What I learned (not from Apex), is that their cheaper components in that newer PM2 modules fail more than the original legacy PM2 version. Just google rumours, nothing confirmed/proven.

So the message I'm getting is the Old Apex Line was built to last. Their APEX Jr advertizement even stated something like Made of Metal (bullet Proof). Wired for reliability, not Wireless.

This concerns me, and convinces me that I'm keeping my good Old APex Jr, Apex Sys, and all the stuff that has been reliable.
Certainly not interested in Modern Plastic stuff with unknown reliability parts inside.
Not worth upgrading for a DOS , or even to run a Trident (which doesn't run standalone), so the Whole Apex Line is becoming a single point of failure (Controller/PowerBar), and possibly not as reliable.

I certainly hope Neptune improves things, since I've been happy with what I have, and the support I've received.

 

[lakai]

Adding a conformal coating to the pcb would be cheap and likely last longer. Why they choose not to do something that is subject to high humidity leaves an answer that is open for you to decide.

 

[andyg1960]

I’ve been relying on the Apex for 2 years. Only issue has been a failed sensor in my DDR. Other than that, no issues. That includes 2 COR pumps, 2 WAV pumps and many modules. It’s saved me a few times.

 

[Ron83]

I have had an Apex Jr for about 3 years no issues. I had the classic for about 2 1/2 years with no issues, upgraded to the new Apex no issues. I run 2 DOS, PMK and several other goodies. Earlier this year the wifi module that connected my Apex classic started to smoke, that is why I upgraded, but that was not related to Apex. In my experience this stuff is as good as gold.

 

[BedrockIOMC]

I have to admit, it’s kinda neat..... I have an EB8 with NOTHING connected though. I guess I need to figure out what/how to connect something to it and add it to my phone app.

I did have a PMUP fail also. Forgot about that!

It has been a long 2 months.

I may add the fish feeder though. And I want a Doser

Fish feeder is about the only thing ive had no issues. It is very loud though expect that.

 

[BedrockIOMC]

I've got the DOS as well, and the ease of running it all through fusion works great for me

there are a few things they have done good with. Seems like that concentrate on a few things and make them good and dont worry about the rest. I have 2 DOS, Wav (which I hate and they will not replace I can hear it run across the room), ATO, 4 modules, 2 breakout box, DDR, and COR 20. I think I've named them all, LOL. There are very few things I recommend of neptune but the DOS is one if nothing else. I just wish they were easier to get to replace things. I have even filed a case with BBB about it and they just ignored the BBB and dont seem to care what their rating is with them, which is low. the way they treat people that has issue is very poor. Seems they know they cant make things right and just write those people off and stop caring and only worry about the ones that have never had issues or things they wont cost them a lot to fix. Thats just how I feel and see things. I use to have a jr. on my BioCube 32 before I sold it and let it go with the tank and never had a issue with it.