Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[TheHarold]

@TheHarold

My controller is set to automatic - or am I looking in a wrong place.

Double clock in fusion - what gives?

where do you live? You need to set the time zone..... then it’ll get correct. One number if your phone’s time, one is the apex’s time. You need to set the apex’s location by using the time zone.

 

[BZOFIQ]

where do you live? You need to set the time zone..... then it’ll get correct. One number if your phone’s time, one is the apex’s time. You need to set the apex’s location by using the time zone.

Eastern Time. Where is the time zone set?

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

Cst

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

It's fixed

 

[Thales]

Eastern Time. Where is the time zone set?

Click the gears, which will open more choices, then click the one that looks like a clock.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Click the gears, which will open more choices, then click the one that looks like a clock.

Come again

 

[robbyg]

I'm using an Apex Controller and have had my issues but was able to fix all of them.
1) WIFI connection lost all the time. Fix: running a cable. It's not an Apex issue BTW. WIFI together with all the gear of a tank just does not go well together.
2) Salinity probe requires a specific way to calibrate it. Once you figured it out, its easy.
3) Probe cables you also do not want to run next to power cables because this will cause instability.
...

But in the end, I love the fact I can have everything in one device. Not compared a lot of others but I wonder if there are any other that allow you to program things like you can with an Apex.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it's because you have not used a different controller.

I use an Aquatronica:

1) Zero issues with Wifi connection. My controller has a hidden compartment on the side that can fit a USB WiFI Dongle or a USB memory stick. So I can choose what brand of Wifi dongle I want to use. It works perfectly no matter how many probes or other things are hooked up. Personally I only played with it for a week or so, but a friend of mine has had zero problems over the last five years. I do not believe in using WiFi with controllers. So I always hook them up to Via LAN Cable.

2) If I told you that my Aquatronica salinity probe never needs to be cleaned, it is not effected by bubbles and that it can almost be used straight out of the box without calibration, would you believe me? Yep it's true. I think mine when dunked in the calibration fluid read 1.0255 out of the box and after using the calibration mode it read correctly at 1.0260
After 18 months of doing no calibrations with it I put it back in and it still reads 1.0260

3) Nope no issues with any probes running next to any cables or pumps. This is a problem that seems to be unique to Neptune.

But in the end, I love the fact I can have everything in one device. Not compared a lot of others but I wonder if there are any other that allow you to program things like you can with an Apex.

LOL yes and a whole lot more. I saw a post on another forum a question about how do I make my Apex shut off the return pump, Skimmer and ATO when I go into feed mode. It was surprising how few people seemed to know the answer and then when the answer did come it was all about Virtual outlets and (IF Then Statements under each device.

With my controller their are 4 hard buttons on the top of the controller, F1-F4
I just drag F1 or any reading device, temp, orp etc into any one of the nine trigger event input boxes and then I can drag any of my 24 real plug outlets OR any device like dosing pumps. vortechs, Lights into Nine different output boxes. After that I just press next and it asks F1=On/Off, I select On and press next then I get the first device that I dragged into a box, lets say the return pump plug and I get and a screen with things I want it to do when the F1 button is pressed.
Stuff like "Delay Operation" by x amount of time. Turn Pump On/Off. Duration of pump to be turned Off or if it should stay off until the button is pressed again.

After that I can do the same thing for Eight other devices. Make them all respond to that F1 Switch in the way I want them to. I can also use =<> and Not equal on those devices like probes etc that have actual value points that I want to set.

Now I am not saying that this cannot be done with the Apex, I really do not know but from the sample code I have seen for doing just two devices and the issues caused by getting even one thing wrong in the code its just not user friendly or intuitive.

Another thing that I love with my controller is that it's all plug and play with auto detection of the devices. Just like a PC with USB ports. It also has some very heavy duty command structures like sequence commands. If you want to do Auto water changes this thing makes it so easy. Also got reminders that can be set for each day, month or year for things like probe calibrations or time to clean the sand bed etc.

 

[Thales]

Come again

Are you running old firmware?

 

[Lifelongaquaria]

Forgot to mention.Still waiting on my local display to populate graphs but was told to give it a few days and if it is still not populated they will do further work. Everything else is exactly as it should be

 

[homer1475]

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread it's because you have not used a different controller.

I use an Aquatronica:

1) Zero issues with Wifi connection. My controller has a hidden compartment on the side that can fit a USB WiFI Dongle or a USB memory stick. So I can choose what brand of Wifi dongle I want to use. It works perfectly no matter how many probes or other things are hooked up. Personally I only played with it for a week or so, but a friend of mine has had zero problems over the last five years. I do not believe in using WiFi with controllers. So I always hook them up to Via LAN Cable.

2) If I told you that my Aquatronica salinity probe never needs to be cleaned, it is not effected by bubbles and that it can almost be used straight out of the box without calibration, would you believe me? Yep it's true. I think mine when dunked in the calibration fluid read 1.0255 out of the box and after using the calibration mode it read correctly at 1.0260
After 18 months of doing no calibrations with it I put it back in and it still reads 1.0260

3) Nope no issues with any probes running next to any cables or pumps. This is a problem that seems to be unique to Neptune.



LOL yes and a whole lot more. I saw a post on another forum a question about how do I make my Apex shut off the return pump, Skimmer and ATO when I go into feed mode. It was surprising how few people seemed to know the answer and then when the answer did come it was all about Virtual outlets and (IF Then Statements under each device.

With my controller their are 4 hard buttons on the top of the controller, F1-F4
I just drag F1 or any reading device, temp, orp etc into any one of the nine trigger event input boxes and then I can drag any of my 24 real plug outlets OR any device like dosing pumps. vortechs, Lights into Nine different output boxes. After that I just press next and it asks F1=On/Off, I select On and press next then I get the first device that I dragged into a box, lets say the return pump plug and I get and a screen with things I want it to do when the F1 button is pressed.
Stuff like "Delay Operation" by x amount of time. Turn Pump On/Off. Duration of pump to be turned Off or if it should stay off until the button is pressed again.

After that I can do the same thing for Eight other devices. Make them all respond to that F1 Switch in the way I want them to. I can also use =<> and Not equal on those devices like probes etc that have actual value points that I want to set.

Now I am not saying that this cannot be done with the Apex, I really do not know but from the sample code I have seen for doing just two devices and the issues caused by getting even one thing wrong in the code its just not user friendly or intuitive.

Another thing that I love with my controller is that it's all plug and play with auto detection of the devices. Just like a PC with USB ports. It also has some very heavy duty command structures like sequence commands. If you want to do Auto water changes this thing makes it so easy. Also got reminders that can be set for each day, month or year for things like probe calibrations or time to clean the sand bed etc.

This system is also significantly more in terms of price. 990$ for a basic unit? With a price tag like that, I would expect it to do more and have better reliability then something thats nearly half it's price. You also have to have "interfaces" for your probes which is another piece of equipment that could potentially fail, rather then just plugging the probe into the head unit. Your probes may not fail, but from my limited reading these "interfaces" fail.

While I cannot comment on any other controller, I've been using my apex classic for about 5 years now with 0 failures. Some minor software glitches, but that even happens to multi billion dollar companies(windows, IOS, android to name a few).

And you guys all say apex is a ripoff. lol

 

[BZOFIQ]

Are you running old firmware?

No, I believe you've assumed that its the apex 2016.

So is this a glitch or is there a fix for the classic unit?

 

[TheHarold]

No, I believe you've assumed that its the apex 2016.

So is this a glitch or is there a fix for the classic unit?

The classic unit has a display where you can adjust those settings. Dunno why this is turning into a troubleshooting thread tho

 

[BZOFIQ]

The classic unit has a display where you can adjust those settings. Dunno why this is turning into a troubleshooting thread tho

I'll check the display.

Sorry, leaving now. Wouldn't want to take away from the valid reliability complaints.

 

[Brew12]

2) If I told you that my Aquatronica salinity probe never needs to be cleaned, it is not effected by bubbles and that it can almost be used straight out of the box without calibration, would you believe me? Yep it's true. I think mine when dunked in the calibration fluid read 1.0255 out of the box and after using the calibration mode it read correctly at 1.0260
After 18 months of doing no calibrations with it I put it back in and it still reads 1.0260

A conductivity probe should drift down over time in a healthy reef tank. The bacterial layer that forms on all the aquarium surfaces in a healthy reef tank acts like an electrical insulator and should cause the reading to drift down over time. If your reading isn't changing, I wouldn't consider that a good sign. It also isn't a good sign if it isn't impacted by bubbles. If you have bubbles at your sensor that should cause the salinity reading to go down as the air is less conductive than the water.

The manufacturers of aquarium controllers don't make their own probes. They are all re-branded sensors from lab equipment manufacturers. As long as the scaling is the same, an Aquatronica probe will work just like an Apex probe which will act just like a GHL probe. If it is acting differently in your Aquatronica system, that is a problem, not a feature.

 

[BZOFIQ]

...

The manufacturers of aquarium controllers don't make their own probes. They are all re-branded sensors from lab equipment manufacturers. ...

That's not to say all probes are created equal or we'll all be fine with the chinesium grade stuff found on ebay.

Some manufacturers just create better probes - more accurate and/or reliable.

 

[Brew12]

That's not to say all probes are created equal or we'll all be fine with the chinesium grade stuff found on ebay.

Some manufacturers just create better probes - more accurate and/or reliable.

Absolutely correct. Just pointing out that has nothing to do with the manufacturer of the controller. That same Aquatronica salinity probe could be used on an Apex or GHL controller with little to no modifications.

 

[Thales]

No, I believe you've assumed that its the apex 2016.

So is this a glitch or is there a fix for the classic unit?

From the manual

"Time Zone Set Up
Now that your Apex is installed at your Aquarium, you can begin to configure your Apex on how to control and monitor your Aquarium.

Set the time zone in your controller. On your display screen: System> Clock Setup> Time Zone (East, -5, Central, -6, Mountain, -7, and Pacific, -8).

International Time zones will vary, check what time zone you are in here.

Confirm the time is correct by selecting “Tank Time Set”"

I searched " Classic Time Zone" in google

Get Started Guide - Apex Classic

Helpful Resources Apex Classic Get Started Guide PDF Neptune Systems Apex Classic FAQ Latest Apex Classic Software Update Variable Speed Port connection w/ Kessil A360 Comprehensive Reference Manual Connect

www.neptunesystems.com

 

[PEP12]

I have one Apex for 4 years with DOS, WAVs, ATO, with skimmer, chiller, heaters, 3 Radions etc attached to it, and another Apex on my second tank for 2 years, problems have been very small, and a call for assistance from Neptune support has been second to no one, will continue to use their products, cannot figure out why the negative posts, IMO perfect results

 

[robbyg]

A conductivity probe should drift down over time in a healthy reef tank. The bacterial layer that forms on all the aquarium surfaces in a healthy reef tank acts like an electrical insulator and should cause the reading to drift down over time. If your reading isn't changing, I wouldn't consider that a good sign. It also isn't a good sign if it isn't impacted by bubbles. If you have bubbles at your sensor that should cause the salinity reading to go down as the air is less conductive than the water.

The manufacturers of aquarium controllers don't make their own probes. They are all re-branded sensors from lab equipment manufacturers. As long as the scaling is the same, an Aquatronica probe will work just like an Apex probe which will act just like a GHL probe. If it is acting differently in your Aquatronica system, that is a problem, not a feature.

No because unlike most of the other probes that use stainless steel or titanium bands and then measure the conductivity between two bands the Aquatronica uses a magnetic resonance field that is completed by the water surrounding it. The whole probe is just a stick with no openings just a donut shaped hole for the water to pass through and change the magnetic field of the coil inside the sealed case. So slime growth has zero effect on it (Just like any magnet). And BTW it is extreamly sensitive, I can see on the graphs when my RO water turns on in the sump. The readings drop by 0.002 for the few seconds that it is releasing water and then it slowly goes back up as the water mixes out into the tank.

The reason Neptune does not use this probe is because it is expensive and they cannot make any huge profits off of it. That is the same reason that they use Paddle wheel flow sensors instead of Vortex sensors for Flow measurement like GHL and Aquatronica do. They are cheap to buy and are made by tons of companies in China. This Probe and the Vertex flow sensors are made in Germany.

 

[Brew12]

No because unlike most of the other probes that use stainless steel or titanium bands and then measure the conductivity between two bands the Aquatronica uses a magnetic resonance field that is completed by the water surrounding it. The whole probe is just a stick with no openings just a donut shaped hole for the water to pass through and change the magnetic field of the coil inside the sealed case. So slime growth has zero effect on it (Just like any magnet). And BTW it is extreamly sensitive, I can see on the graphs when my RO water turns on in the sump. The readings drop by 0.002 for the few seconds that it is releasing water and then it slowly goes back up as the water mixes out into the tank.

The reason Neptune does not use this probe is because it is expensive and they cannot make any huge profits off of it. That is the same reason that they use Paddle wheel flow sensors instead of Vortex sensors for Flow measurement like GHL and Aquatronica do. They are cheap to buy and are made by tons of companies in China. This Probe and the Vertex flow sensors are made in Germany.

I'm just going off of their website.

Aquatronica

www.aquatronica.com