Neptune Trident

[roberthu526]

Obviously you're welcome to your opinion and I appreciate why you feel like you do. I would be angry if the Trident never came to market but it will.

Thanks for your open mind. I hope the Trident becomes available soon too.

 

[MyReefRobbedMe]

Where is Apex , Terrance . Can we get an official update

 

[DarthSimon]

Buying an Apex just for the sake of buying a Trident makes absolutely zero sense. If that’s the case you should have bought one of the products that was already available.

 

[TheHarold]

Buying an Apex just for the sake of buying a Trident makes absolutely zero sense. If that’s the case you should have bought one of the products that was already available.

Agreed- but I did choose to order 3x DOS yesterday, instead of GHL dosers, partially due to the potential integration with trident. (I love apex, just putting it out there that I can kind of see where they are coming from).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im patient and nott ready to purchase any of these devices. I do take in account that I have the New Apex which will accommodate this technology and will wait. I do hope however that They lower the Price as an introductory for those who had to wait ages and may have bought Apex 2016 as I have in anticipation for the Trident unit

 

[mrpizzaface]

I’m sure I’ll get accused of trying to protect a sponsor but for the life of me I don’t understand why people get so upset over this.

1. You’re having to wait longer for a product that was once considered a unicorn in the hobby.

2. Neptune is taking their time and making sure they are going to release a product that is ready and tested. We’re not talking about a pump here. We’re taking about an intrigual system component that can make or break your entire system.

3. Why get so mad? There are other products if you want to get something now.

I feel like the hostility from some of you is because you WANT Neptune Systems products but you feel like you’re kinda stuck because the Trident is not ready. If this is not the reason then buy something else. If it is the reason just have a little more patience. I would rather wait, which I am doing, and have one of the best products than jump the gun and add one that’s not going to measure up to expectations.

It seems to me people are angry because they feel Neptune was using immoral business practices when promoting the Trident.
People feel duped into buying the 2016 model to get the promised Trident.
People with technical knowledge feel they know that it would have been easy to make trident compatible with Apex classic.
People feel Neptune announced Trident before the product was even viable to keep consumers from buying other competitive products that were available.
As someone who isn’t mad it seems pretty clear to me, at least in these three examples why many are angry.

 

[roberthu526]

It seems to me people are angry because they feel Neptune was using immoral business practices when promoting the Trident.
People feel duped into buying the 2016 model to get the promised Trident.
People with technical knowledge feel they know that it would have been easy to make trident compatible with Apex classic.
People feel Neptune announced Trident before the product was even viable to keep consumers from buying other competitive products that were available.
As someone who isn’t mad it seems pretty clear to me, at least in these three examples why many are angry.

Well summarized!

 

[Amoo]

I think the reason this is so polarizing and upsetting to some folks is because of the way the new APEX was rolled out/marketed.

We were told we couldn't use the Trident with the classic so we would need to upgrade.

Okay, not a huge deal right?

Except there was that whole thing where they said they wouldn't release just the head unit like they have now and had no future plans to. This was all part of the original Trident thread and forced a lot of people's hands who wanted this Trident to buy the whole package.

Ironically, just as I predicted at the time and I believe mentioned in that thread, after "x" amount of time passed they released just the head unit, meanwhile the Trident is still not available.

Hence, a LOT of folks spent an extra $500+ and are now sitting here like, "What the heck."

---

My personal opinion is Neptune played the "smart business" move instead of the "compassionate business" move. Some people are mad about that, others don't care. I don't think either side is wrong. What I do think though is if you feel you got burned by Neptune, just don't buy their stuff. There are other viable options now. I personally chose an Ecotech return pump for my new build over the COR and RedSea one and auto eliminated the COR because I just haven't had great experiences with Neptune CS. My personal experiences.

What's done is done. We can keep having this same back and forth in every thread about the Trident, which gets about as old as the LED vs T5 vs MH debate. Or people can just move on and say, "okay I see you Neptune" and not support their products anymore.

It really is a matter of personal choice. Don't like how they treated you? Vote with your wallet, it's the only proven way to know your voice will be heard.

 

[ReefTeacher]

I agree, and voted with my wallet. I did not upgrade to the 2016 and got the KHG monitor. It is very precise because it does not simply use a colorimeter, rather it tests the pH of a solution as it titrates. Since this method uses the definition of alkalinity, it is much more accurate.

As luck would have it, my Apex Classic unit failed this summer and I had to upgrade, but luckily the ApexEL was out, and more than fulfills my needs.

 

[SlvrZ]

a few years ago none of this stuff was even in the news and we went along all fine and happy. now all of a sudden we are throwing little fits and bashing on Neptune. pfff, i'll buy it when ever it becomes available. i've been fine without it for 6 years, whats another year or so lol.

 

[SlvrZ]

a few years ago none of this stuff was even in the news and we went along all fine and happy. now all of a sudden we are throwing little fits and bashing on Neptune. pfff, i'll buy it when ever it becomes available. i've been fine without it for 6 years, whats another year or so lol.

 

[MyReefRobbedMe]

I get what your saying, little off track but I don’t think you would understand unless you was one of the persons who kicked out money or made a decision with money to go with or upgrade when there was many other kh controllers companies that dropped. I’d say read Mr.pizzaFace comment and that sums it up pretty good .

 

[B-ridge]

Has Terrance commented on anything yet? I’ve read this and seen it updates and saw multiple people ask for Terrance. Was just asking and curious cause usually he does comment. We all knew the vendors pay attention to the post/threads. I would just think someone would of commented by know giving the people some sort of news. You have people thinking there tactics were unscrupulous. That for sure would be something you would think a company would comment on. People looking elsewhere and buying other products. Still hearing nothing. Seems as if they figured they had a bunch of suckers upgrade already. And they have there die hard followers who will buy anything they put out so there not worried. They can just treat the people whatever way they choose cause they know some will still be here. I also was waiting for the trident. No I have not updated to the new apex. Still running the classic. More and more the days go by I’m liking the other options we have out there including but not limited to the ghl and the alkatronic. These companies already have there products out and continue to upgrade them. Now when the trident comes out I’m sure they will have there issues being brand new and different. This is what sets the other company apart and ahead in my opinion. I’ll give it to my birthday in November. Latest Christmas. If not sera sera

 

[Forsaken77]

I know Neptune is a business and wants to generate as much revenue as possible, but I wish they would make more independent devices that don't need the Apex. The COR pumps were a good start, but only the big one could be used without Apex.

If they made independent products and then added more features with the Apex, it would be a win for everybody.

Oh... I forgot that the magnetic probe holder is independent

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Has Terrance commented on anything yet? I’ve read this and seen it updates and saw multiple people ask for Terrance. Was just asking and curious cause usually he does comment. We all knew the vendors pay attention to the post/threads. I would just think someone would of commented by know giving the people some sort of news. You have people thinking there tactics were unscrupulous. That for sure would be something you would think a company would comment on. People looking elsewhere and buying other products. Still hearing nothing. Seems as if they figured they had a bunch of suckers upgrade already. And they have there die hard followers who will buy anything they put out so there not worried. They can just treat the people whatever way they choose cause they know some will still be here. I also was waiting for the trident. No I have not updated to the new apex. Still running the classic. More and more the days go by I’m liking the other options we have out there including but not limited to the ghl and the alkatronic. These companies already have there products out and continue to upgrade them. Now when the trident comes out I’m sure they will have there issues being brand new and different. This is what sets the other company apart and ahead in my opinion. I’ll give it to my birthday in November. Latest Christmas. If not sera sera

All I know being in business 25+ years(talking about me ), and I had clients with inquiries, I dont answer them. I'd be out of business EVENTUALLY.
Just saying

 

[roberthu526]

Has Terrance commented on anything yet? I’ve read this and seen it updates and saw multiple people ask for Terrance. Was just asking and curious cause usually he does comment. We all knew the vendors pay attention to the post/threads. I would just think someone would of commented by know giving the people some sort of news. You have people thinking there tactics were unscrupulous. That for sure would be something you would think a company would comment on. People looking elsewhere and buying other products. Still hearing nothing. Seems as if they figured they had a bunch of suckers upgrade already. And they have there die hard followers who will buy anything they put out so there not worried. They can just treat the people whatever way they choose cause they know some will still be here. I also was waiting for the trident. No I have not updated to the new apex. Still running the classic. More and more the days go by I’m liking the other options we have out there including but not limited to the ghl and the alkatronic. These companies already have there products out and continue to upgrade them. Now when the trident comes out I’m sure they will have there issues being brand new and different. This is what sets the other company apart and ahead in my opinion. I’ll give it to my birthday in November. Latest Christmas. If not sera sera

I myself will be very cautious before buying any Neptune products in the future. If I don’t absolutely have to I will spend another cent on them. Vote with my wallet.

 

[Forsaken77]

This just shows you do not really understand how hardware develops. From your USB example (where one can use a $2 adapter) to thinking that the incompatibility is from the apex classic not having wifi or power consumption monitoring- completely unrelated to why trident does not work with the apex classic.

I will try to break it down a bit.
The apex classic is from 2009.

Is your current phone from 2009? Does it work well with 2018 software- can you watch 4k videos with no lag?
Is your current laptop from 2009? Does it work well with 2018 software- can you watch 4k videos with no lag?

Do you expect your 2009 phone to be able to play the newest demanding games available in the App Store? No, because they have minimum requirements for hardware.
Hardware changes. The computing/processing that the trident needs very well could be incompatible with the low processing power on the apex classic.
There does not have to be a big scheme against apex classic users. The apex 2016 can use all of your EB8s, modules, etc. You would just need a new head unit if you need the apex trident capability. The full apex head unit is $399- compatible with all your existing accessories.

Is the fact that 2018 hardware may be incompatible with 2013 hardware really that incompreshensible?

When the apex classic was designed, I assure you that nobody assumed it would be processing the results of advanced titrations of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium.

2009 dude. 2009. You got 10 years from your apex classic... if you are that bitter that your 10 year old controller wont work with trident, after apex has continually been supporting you with updates to Fusion and modules for this long, I dont know what to say.

I don't have an Apex so am not sure on how it works, nor am I bias about the classic or 2016. But with something like the Trident, wouldn't the physical machine (the Trident) do all of the computing, calculations and measurements, not the head unit?

As far as I can tell, the head unit acts as a digital switch to turn things on/off, monitor readings, or turn up or down power to pumps, the dos, ect... And it acts as an alert sysyem and data logger.

If that's the way it works, then it should've been compatible with the Classic, right? Because the Trident will do all of the computing power.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that up to this point, there is no Neptune add-on that processes information, likewise the head unit doesn't do any computing, calculations or measurements. They all just read data and pass it along to the head unit to stop, start, increase or decrease and send a notification if needed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (in a nice way ) because I don't own the unit. But since this will really be the first Neptune device that requires any real computational load (as far as the basic controller goes), I would think it would be handled by the Trident, like other similar units, unless this is the first device to use the head unit for its processing power.

 

[vegamedic]

As far as I can tell, the head unit acts as a digital switch to turn things on/off, monitor readings, or turn up or down power to pumps, the dos, ect... And it acts as an alert system and data logger.

If that's the way it works, then it should've been compatible with the Classic, right? Because the Trident will do all of the computing power.

It's my understanding that head units on controllers do in fact crunch numbers. For example, a pH probe sends a voltage signal that the head unit has to convert to a numeric reading. Same with any kind of probe, the differences being a digital or analog signal. Based on what I've read about the Trident, I'd imagine it operates in a similar way, especially considering that spitting out raw signal has the added side benefit of making it harder for people to use the device with non-Apex controllers.

From a design standpoint it also makes more sense for the head unit to do all the heavy lifting. Having the Trident just do colorimetry and send a signal to the head unit would be much easier than having it be a completely independent system outputting arrays of sanitized test data. You then have a mostly mechanical Trident (draw in sample, titrate reagent until colorimeter voltage reaches some threshold, send signal of how much reagent used during test, flush system) with less points of failure and a head unit that can receive wireless software updates on existing architecture doing the math.

 

[Muttley000]

Imagine the outrage if they figured out how to make the Trident stand alone like they did with the ATO....

 

[ZaneTer]

It's my understanding that head units on controllers do in fact crunch numbers. For example, a pH probe sends a voltage signal that the head unit has to convert to a numeric reading. Same with any kind of probe, the differences being a digital or analog signal. Based on what I've read about the Trident, I'd imagine it operates in a similar way, especially considering that spitting out raw signal has the added side benefit of making it harder for people to use the device with non-Apex controllers.

From a design standpoint it also makes more sense for the head unit to do all the heavy lifting. Having the Trident just do colorimetry and send a signal to the head unit would be much easier than having it be a completely independent system outputting arrays of sanitized test data. You then have a mostly mechanical Trident (draw in sample, titrate reagent until colorimeter voltage reaches some threshold, send signal of how much reagent used during test, flush system) with less points of failure and a head unit that can receive wireless software updates on existing architecture doing the math.

Hi vega, you are both right and wrong. A raw signal (integer) is received from the field and then scaled/recalculated to become a usable value (REAL). This can be done in EITHER the head unit or the remote unit. It really doesn't matter and the mathematics behind it are shockingly simple. The point I am trying to make is that they cannot argue that the older unit doesnt have the processing power to compute the kh value from a raw signal. The better way to do it would have been to have the Trident measure and output the value and then have the head unit display it and/or adjust the dosing.

In terms of communication if it had been wireless and used something like UDP or TCP it could have sent quite large amounts of information at whatever frequency it needed to. Again the computing overhead is minimal.

 

[vegamedic]

Hi vega, you are both right and wrong. A raw signal (integer) is received from the field and then scaled/recalculated to become a usable value (REAL). This can be done in EITHER the head unit or the remote unit. It really doesn't matter and the mathematics behind it are shockingly simple. The point I am trying to make is that they cannot argue that the older unit doesnt have the processing power to compute the kh value from a raw signal. The better way to do it would have been to have the Trident measure and output the value and then have the head unit display it and/or adjust the dosing.

In terms of communication if it had been wireless and used something like UDP or TCP it could have sent quite large amounts of information at whatever frequency it needed to. Again the computing overhead is minimal.

ah fair enough, i figured the signal processing was more complicated than that. thanks for the info