New 125 setup problems HELP!!
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.AcroKiller.
2500 Club Member
Hey how far are you from clarksville. I might be able to come help you out
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AirAngel
Active Member
Gmoney got me to thinking about the holes in the side of the Durso pipes. Something unusual....hmmm??
I tapped over them with electrical tape. These pipes do have the hole on top also.
Noise problem went away.
Hopefull I didnt defeat a safety?
Are there 2 types of Durso Pipes??
NEXT problem;
Supply jets in the tank are syphoning back into filter causing overflow. Immediately stops when jets are lifted above water level. They DO have holes inside the elbows.
This is to prevent this from happening??
Can check valves be installed??
Thanks guys.
Sorry to get so frustrated. My bad for expecting this to to go together without snafus without seeing it run.
Mike B
mcarroll
10K Club member
Mike,
Slow down your pump and a lot of the noise with just go away.
Unless they are custom, your drains are rated for 600gph each - maximum - and they were designed as gravity (not siphon) drains.
Generally when you get anywhere close to the max you start getting the creation of temporary/momentary siphons within your plumbing. Each time a siphon is created (i.e. the whole diameter of the plumbing covered with water), air is trapped and the air+water is sucked at high speed down the drain. This created the sucking sounds at the top of the drain and the air+water crashing into the sump at high speed is what makes all the noise down below. Durso's (and similar band-aid solutions) will help with this, but there are still limits and if there is noise you are brushing up against them.
The easiest solution is to install a valve on the return pump outlet and reduce the flow rate until you achieve silence. Remember: 2-4 times your display volume is plenty of flow through your sump to filter your tank! For example, a 300 gallon display tank would only need around 1200gph through its filtration system. (Google the "BeanAnimal overflow" if you really need more flow through your sump...you can adapt nearly any tank that has 2 drains and 2 returns drilled.)
There are lots of little half-measures that can be taken to quiet things down, such as Durso's and making your drain plumbing as direct and large as practically possible, but reducing flow to "correct" levels will be far more effective. Let me know if there are questions!
-Matt
P.S. It may be worth saying out loud that neither gravity nor siphon drains make any noise at all when running normally. The noise only comes when you're "doing it wrong". ;-)
Slow down your pump and a lot of the noise with just go away.
Unless they are custom, your drains are rated for 600gph each - maximum - and they were designed as gravity (not siphon) drains.
Generally when you get anywhere close to the max you start getting the creation of temporary/momentary siphons within your plumbing. Each time a siphon is created (i.e. the whole diameter of the plumbing covered with water), air is trapped and the air+water is sucked at high speed down the drain. This created the sucking sounds at the top of the drain and the air+water crashing into the sump at high speed is what makes all the noise down below. Durso's (and similar band-aid solutions) will help with this, but there are still limits and if there is noise you are brushing up against them.
The easiest solution is to install a valve on the return pump outlet and reduce the flow rate until you achieve silence. Remember: 2-4 times your display volume is plenty of flow through your sump to filter your tank! For example, a 300 gallon display tank would only need around 1200gph through its filtration system. (Google the "BeanAnimal overflow" if you really need more flow through your sump...you can adapt nearly any tank that has 2 drains and 2 returns drilled.)
There are lots of little half-measures that can be taken to quiet things down, such as Durso's and making your drain plumbing as direct and large as practically possible, but reducing flow to "correct" levels will be far more effective. Let me know if there are questions!
-Matt
P.S. It may be worth saying out loud that neither gravity nor siphon drains make any noise at all when running normally. The noise only comes when you're "doing it wrong". ;-)
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AirAngel
Active Member
Thanks Mac,
I grossly miscalulated gph. Probably only about 800 actually even less if pump is overated.
Trying to reason thru it. I thought that it was air related. Gmoneys comment got me in that direction. Taping the holes reduced the amount of air allowed. Return hose have much less air baubbles. Things got much more tolerable.
Im thinking this is the wrong pipe foir my application??
I do have concerns about safety.
Must go to bed. Sleep easier.
Checkin in the am.
Thanks again!!
I grossly miscalulated gph. Probably only about 800 actually even less if pump is overated.
Trying to reason thru it. I thought that it was air related. Gmoneys comment got me in that direction. Taping the holes reduced the amount of air allowed. Return hose have much less air baubbles. Things got much more tolerable.
Im thinking this is the wrong pipe foir my application??
I do have concerns about safety.
Must go to bed. Sleep easier.
Checkin in the am.
Thanks again!!
Goavs21
New Member
The more I read, the more I like the sound of siphon drains. This appears to be the origin of (and hence the name of) reliable silent DT drains. NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!! - Reef Central Online Community
I am from the school of thought saying, there is no such thing as too much water movement in a reef tank. Assuming such things as: we are counting on sump return as a decent portion of flow, broad not linear flow, not blowing sand around, etc… restricting return flow is wrong.
Anti-siphon holes (properly placed) are the most common method to prevent sump overflow due to return pump stoppage. However, check valves could create another level of security: Marine Depot item
I am from the school of thought saying, there is no such thing as too much water movement in a reef tank. Assuming such things as: we are counting on sump return as a decent portion of flow, broad not linear flow, not blowing sand around, etc… restricting return flow is wrong.
Anti-siphon holes (properly placed) are the most common method to prevent sump overflow due to return pump stoppage. However, check valves could create another level of security: Marine Depot item
gmoney243
2500 Club Member
Mcaroll has it right which is why I asked what gph your return pump is. But my drains are the same size as yours and I run a 1600gph return pump but mine runs carbon and biopellet reactor as well but even when full blast to tank there's no noise.
Goavs no you don't want much flow through your sump. And your return should not be a source of flow in your tank. 3-5x volume through sump is best for more effecient filtering and less noise and micro bubbles. I never use bubble traps and never have microbubbles because of slower flow through sump.
The holes in the side of that durso don't do anything besides make noise. There is no safety feature there because the water will stop draining at that same line anyway with or witthout the holes.
Now for your return jets draining and overflowing your sump its because it creates a back syphon when the pump is turned off. To stop this u can put a small hole in the pipe so when it shuts off it pulls air in and stops the syphon hence stopping draining. Also I nvr trust it so I also keep them close to the waterline anyway just incase that hole gets clogged it will pull in air through and stop from syphoning more water than ur sump can handle. Check valves have a tendency to fail a lot so we really don't use them. The other above methods are usually what's used to prevent much back syphon.
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Goavs no you don't want much flow through your sump. And your return should not be a source of flow in your tank. 3-5x volume through sump is best for more effecient filtering and less noise and micro bubbles. I never use bubble traps and never have microbubbles because of slower flow through sump.
The holes in the side of that durso don't do anything besides make noise. There is no safety feature there because the water will stop draining at that same line anyway with or witthout the holes.
Now for your return jets draining and overflowing your sump its because it creates a back syphon when the pump is turned off. To stop this u can put a small hole in the pipe so when it shuts off it pulls air in and stops the syphon hence stopping draining. Also I nvr trust it so I also keep them close to the waterline anyway just incase that hole gets clogged it will pull in air through and stop from syphoning more water than ur sump can handle. Check valves have a tendency to fail a lot so we really don't use them. The other above methods are usually what's used to prevent much back syphon.
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Goavs21
New Member
I said water movement in a reef tank; not flow through your sump. A return, from a sump, HAS TO BE a source of flow. Why not take advantage of it?
800 gph is a liberal estimate, from what I can see of the plumbing. So with your 3-5x turnover goal, Mike is right there.
Restricting return flow is treating a symptom, not curing the problem. We won't even get into the (arguably) potential of causing harm to the pump by adding unneeded head pressure.
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AirAngel
Active Member
The elbows DO have holes in the inside bend to allow air in. It is still syphoning though.
.AcroKiller.
2500 Club Member
Hey call me again when you can
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