New acropora bug resitant to any dip interceptor flatworm exit,

saltyfilmfolks · Jan 9, 2018

Well, those are scary as all get out aren’t they??

As far as dips go, in my limited tests, it’s all about concentration af the dip solution. I slowly had to increase concentration of Bayer and other compounds till stuff died. Ime pods died before red acoels in a Bayer dip.

I’m sure the Op is aware of this, and that @Gareth elliott method is correct. But I makes an in tank application difficult , as prazi FWE etc will require testing to determine effectiveness and dosage concentrations.

No clue what those are. I’d have to guess nudi or worm. But the movement suggests flagelli. Sooo
But I’m out of ideas on whom else the ask here.

Out of the box thought on predators would be acro crabs.

Here’s the active ingredient list on Bayer if to helps to shop. These may be the banned compounds however.

Prazi in the US is over the counter dog and cat worming meds. (And most are actually made by Bayer )

Ashish Patel · Jan 15, 2018

AEFW lay eggs in clusters (have seen it with my own eyes). These pest are laying them all over the place.. These things on your acros are a new kind of coral killer we don't seem to be aware off. You may just need to QT and let your tank run fallow for sometime since you did mention they came back after 6 months. If its just effecting one species remove them and starve them jerks, blast the rockwork and epoxy the entire areas that potential eggs may be. I hate pest that make you take out the stars of the tank.. Please keep us posted.

videosilva · Jan 16, 2018

Sabellafella said:
These are for sure not aefws. Try using bayer or even prazipro as a dip.

OMG ! SERIOUSLY ! The IMMEDIATE post after the guy said " HE COULD NOT GET BAYER in Canada.

Sabellafella · Jan 16, 2018

videosilva said:
OMG ! SERIOUSLY ! The IMMEDIATE post after the guy said " HE COULD NOT GET BAYER in Canada.

That post was around the same time the op posted stating he cant get bayer. Maybe i was typing when the op replied. Im not aware of the laws in CA BUT i do know a few people in canada that do use bayer. Only treatment i know of for those wierd critters(aka blackworms) is bayer and prazi. Its best for me to give advice then nothing at all. And im fine thank you.

Daltrey · Jan 16, 2018

videosilva said:
OMG ! SERIOUSLY ! The IMMEDIATE post after the guy said " HE COULD NOT GET BAYER in Canada.

They posted at the exact same time. Now take your medication and chill!

Sabellafella · Jan 16, 2018

Daltrey said:
They posted at the exact same time. Now take your medication and chill!

Lol, but these critters are no joke! Theres a few members here that have this pest. Having a very difficult time getting rid of with all types of dips. Theres a video somewhere i seen recently of someone dipping their acropora in the polyp lab potassium salt dip with good success. Its extremely expensive, but if it were a last resort id pay for the product.

Daltrey · Jan 16, 2018

Sabellafella said:
Lol, but these critters are no joke! Theres a few members here that have this pest. Having a very difficult time getting rid of with all types of dips. Theres a video somewhere i seen recently of someone dipping their acropora in the polyp lab potassium salt dip with good success. Its extremely expensive, but if it were a last resort id pay for the product.

Would they show up in quarantine? I dip in bayer then qt all my frags for at least 4 weeks. Then dip in coralrx again before going into my display tank.

Sabellafella · Jan 16, 2018

Daltrey said:
Would they show up in quarantine? I dip in bayer then qt all my frags for at least 4 weeks. Then dip in coralrx again before going into my display tank.

They don't seem very common, so I doubt it. Just have to inspect every piece closely.

slojmn · Jan 16, 2018

I just found these exact pests all over a number of acropora pieces in both of my tanks. I have lost most of my acro collection over the past few months and finally, yesterday, spotted these guys all over a few of the worst off pieces that were close to the glass where I could really inspect them at a high magnification. They were infested. I have about 8 pieces in one tank that I dipped in Bayer and cut back to just a healthy branch. We'll see what the next few days bring for those frags. I have yet to spot eggs, but I am sure they are there. For the frags I dipped I only saved a healthy branch.

I have not ventured into what to do in my main tank, I have about 15 SPS left and I see them on a few of them. I have a number of pieces that are still fully encrusted onto the rock work. I will probably have to let the pests run their course in that tank. I'm not sure what else to do. I fought AEFW about 4 years ago and these are definitely NOT AEFW. They move fast on the coral, eat their way from the base up, just like the OP noted. I lost a large part of my LPS collection prior to the demise of my SPS so I figured a widespread crash was in effect but I could not pinpoint the cause. I am not sure the events are related as I still don't know why I lost the LPS pieces. I was on the lookout for bite marks on my SPS but found none, so I ruled out AEFW. Then I found these things. They are definitely killing my acros. I suspect I infected the nano-reef in an attempt to save some of my best acro frags from the main tank by moving them to the 'healthy' tank where the SPS were doing great. Bad move for sure. I dip everything I get in but I don't quarantine.

These are crazy bugs. I figure I'll lose everything eventually. Now its all about where I find them now that I know what to look for. Do they have a hankering for montiporas or LPS. I guess I'll find out. I have no idea how long I've had them, but I suspect for a while. It took a couple of months for my main tank SPS to die off to the 15 or so I have left. My collection was around 75 SPS colonies, large and mini. All I can say is Holy Crap!!! I wonder if they can survive without any SPS or if they will have a similar life cycle to the AEFW and without SPS they will eventually die off. Currently my huge Montipora Setosa is gorgeous and healthy with no signs of any problem. I have also noted that my Scoly and all mushrooms in the nano-reef seem perfectly fine.

slojmn · Jan 16, 2018

I just found these exact pests all over a number of acropora pieces in both of my tanks. I have lost most of my acro collection over the past few months and finally, yesterday, spotted these guys all over a few of the worst off pieces that were close to the glass where I could really inspect them at a high magnification. They were infested. I have about 8 pieces in one tank that I dipped in Bayer and cut back to just a healthy branch. We'll see what the next few days bring for those frags. I have yet to spot eggs, but I am sure they are there. For the frags I dipped I only saved a healthy branch.

I have not ventured into what to do in my main tank, I have about 15 SPS left and I see them on a few of them. I have a number of pieces that are still fully encrusted onto the rock work. I will probably have to let the pests run their course in that tank. I'm not sure what else to do. I fought AEFW about 4 years ago and these are definitely NOT AEFW. They move fast on the coral, eat their way from the base up, just like the OP noted. I lost a large part of my LPS collection prior to the demise of my SPS so I figured a widespread crash was in effect but I could not pinpoint the cause. I am not sure the events are related as I still don't know why I lost the LPS pieces. I was on the lookout for bite marks on my SPS but found none, so I ruled out AEFW. Then I found these things. They are definitely killing my acros. I suspect I infected the nano-reef in an attempt to save some of my best acro frags from the main tank by moving them to the 'healthy' tank where the SPS were doing great. Bad move for sure. I dip everything I get in but I don't quarantine.

These are crazy bugs. I figure I'll lose everything eventually. Now its all about where I find them now that I know what to look for. Do they have a hankering for montiporas or LPS. I guess I'll find out. I have no idea how long I've had them, but I suspect for a while. It took a couple of months for my main tank SPS to die off to the 15 or so I have left. My collection was around 75 SPS colonies, large and mini. All I can say is Holy Crap!!! I wonder if they can survive without any SPS or if they will have a similar life cycle to the AEFW and without SPS they will eventually die off. Currently my huge Montipora Setosa is gorgeous and healthy with no signs of any problem. I have also noted that my Scoly and all mushrooms in the nano-reef seem perfectly fine.

Buffcole · Jan 17, 2018

Bayer. Can you order it form Amazon?

Gareth elliott · Jan 17, 2018

Buffcole said:
Bayer. Can you order it form Amazon?

Yes, or home improvement store its an insecticide. Bayer complete insect killer

Ashish Patel · Jan 17, 2018

slojmn said:
I just found these exact pests all over a number of acropora pieces in both of my tanks. I have lost most of my acro collection over the past few months and finally, yesterday, spotted these guys all over a few of the worst off pieces that were close to the glass where I could really inspect them at a high magnification. They were infested. I have about 8 pieces in one tank that I dipped in Bayer and cut back to just a healthy branch. We'll see what the next few days bring for those frags. I have yet to spot eggs, but I am sure they are there. For the frags I dipped I only saved a healthy branch.

I have not ventured into what to do in my main tank, I have about 15 SPS left and I see them on a few of them. I have a number of pieces that are still fully encrusted onto the rock work. I will probably have to let the pests run their course in that tank. I'm not sure what else to do. I fought AEFW about 4 years ago and these are definitely NOT AEFW. They move fast on the coral, eat their way from the base up, just like the OP noted. I lost a large part of my LPS collection prior to the demise of my SPS so I figured a widespread crash was in effect but I could not pinpoint the cause. I am not sure the events are related as I still don't know why I lost the LPS pieces. I was on the lookout for bite marks on my SPS but found none, so I ruled out AEFW. Then I found these things. They are definitely killing my acros. I suspect I infected the nano-reef in an attempt to save some of my best acro frags from the main tank by moving them to the 'healthy' tank where the SPS were doing great. Bad move for sure. I dip everything I get in but I don't quarantine.

These are crazy bugs. I figure I'll lose everything eventually. Now its all about where I find them now that I know what to look for. Do they have a hankering for montiporas or LPS. I guess I'll find out. I have no idea how long I've had them, but I suspect for a while. It took a couple of months for my main tank SPS to die off to the 15 or so I have left. My collection was around 75 SPS colonies, large and mini. All I can say is Holy Crap!!! I wonder if they can survive without any SPS or if they will have a similar life cycle to the AEFW and without SPS they will eventually die off. Currently my huge Montipora Setosa is gorgeous and healthy with no signs of any problem. I have also noted that my Scoly and all mushrooms in the nano-reef seem perfectly fine.

Oh man I feel for you man.. I wonder if there is an ID on these pest. I would pull the weaker acros clearly dieing and put it in a white bowl and slowly add freshwater and let all the nasties come off, don't even stir it much everything should fly off and you can see the babies moving as they die. If you start stiring it you'll just mix it up with other detrius and algae and won't know for sure how small the babies are and you may want to get a good look at them for future reasons. Take pictures of the base and let the frag plug dry out and then get a clear inspection of the eggs since they'll be the only things still shiny. This is just an educated guess by looking at their size and speed, I bet they eat acros more rapidly so taking away the food source they could possibly die faster than AEFW - which i've read takes 14 days for the adult worms and faster for babies. Think about it a slow mover is probably a slower eater and therefore more likely to take longer to starve. Now would be a good time remove any non-acros that may look infected and see if anything comes of them. If they have a taste for montis and stylos than its a serious pest that needs its food source removed. I would QT corals and dip Until you are 100% sure your tank is clean then start adding sps slowly to see if the worms are still present.

Dont get down take the time to learn about these things so you can become a expert in everything from QT and identification. Having a clear dip is probably ideal so you can see how they react to different dips. Perhaps you just need a lethal concentration of a said dip.. Or these guys are similar to monti eating nudis. So perhaps sacrifice a coral by using bayers and see if that kills the adults. Keep us posted if you can identify these things.

Cnidoblast · Jan 17, 2018

dose praziquantel in the qt system and remove any carbon or purigen

PZQ takes a few days to work so leave them in the QT for a week

Brew12 · Jan 17, 2018

I would have slept better tonight had I not come across this thread. I hope someone can get a firm ID and document an effective treatment!;Nurse

Sierra_Bravo · Jan 17, 2018

I hope we're not seeing the beginning discovery of an entirely new pest issue to plague the industry. It would be fantastic if we could have both @Reef Solution and @slojmn 's livestock addition histories and see if there were any common denominators between the two, like purchases from the same supplier.

Cnidoblast · Jan 17, 2018

Sierra_Bravo said:
I hope we're not seeing the beginning discovery of an entirely new pest issue to plague the industry. It would be fantastic if we could have both @Reef Solution and @slojmn 's livestock addition histories and see if there were any common denominators between the two, like purchases from the same supplier.

I doubt the flatworms would be resistant to PZQ megadosing in a QT system as PZQ has a different mechanism of action than the bayer combo

Gareth elliott · Jan 17, 2018

Theres a NIH study ill find when home. The mode of action hypothesized of PZQ on planarians is that it causes an imbalance of ca2. in the study when applied in waters with no ca2 the drug had no effect. Anecdotally they also found ca1 inhibitors were lethal to free living flatworms.
Not that anyone is going to dose their tank with their hypertension medication lol.

MamaLovesHerReefTank · Jan 17, 2018

This is only available in Canada if you are in Quebec. I'm not sure if you could order from one of the stores listed. http://www.bayeradvanced.ca/locate-a-retailer/ If you are close to a U.S border, it might be worth the drive across. We purchase ours at Meijer's in Michigan.