New and looking for advise - Lighting

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

Hi.

I'm new to the hobby. I think I was told a bit of a fabrication from my LFS on what I would need and what it would cost to get this setup going.
I was told Coralife Aqua S LED Fixture 2- 48 inch $320 ($160 ea.) is what I would need.

It appears that I may need a bit more from what I have been reading. It seems that the 320 cost of lighting is more along the lines of 1000 or more.
I have given up on trusting the employee's knowledge at the LFS and have started my own research.

I was told the total cost of system would be about 6k.
I am in about 8k so far. still need lights and auto turf scrubber. Wife is being awesome about it but I think I'm pushing my limits.

330 gal acrylic tank 96 x 30 x 30

I have been reading and learning so much that its almost overwhelming.
I intend to have fish and soft corals.
Tank is up and running with sand and rock for few days now.
I have this huge canopy in my garage that I need to get put on the tank but I need to get my lighting sorted out first.

I know.. I know. its been asked and answered 100 zillion times. I hoping that 100 zillion and 1 will be ok and not get me roasted for asking .

My mind is so full of numbers, manufacturers, water flow's, apex's, Fuji rocks, watts, pars, and soon to add divorce lawyers if I don't quit spending money and get this thing up looking good.

I am asking, for opinions on what lights I may want for this tank. Main goal is for the health and well being of the fish and corals. Second is visual's for us. I would love to have control of lighting as far as sun up and sun down. Love to have some lighting storms. Love it to work with this apex thing. Love it to last for ever and 3 days. Love it to cost about $25.00.

If I could please get some suggestions as to what I may want for this length and depth. It would be great. I was told $320 would cover it. Its looking like that may have been a little off. I don't need the best named brand. Just functionality.

Apologies for the same old question. If I keep reading these forums, and seeing all the different answers for other sized tanks and try to figure what I need, I'm gonna go nuts.
Many thanks for any advise.

XNavyDiver · Feb 24, 2018

Kordin said:
Hi.

I'm new to the hobby. I think I was told a bit of a fabrication from my LFS on what I would need and what it would cost to get this setup going.
I was told Coralife Aqua S LED Fixture 2- 48 inch $320 ($160 ea.) is what I would need.

It appears that I may need a bit more from what I have been reading. It seems that the 320 cost of lighting is more along the lines of 1000 or more.
I have given up on trusting the employee's knowledge at the LFS and have started my own research.

I was told the total cost of system would be about 6k.
I am in about 8k so far. still need lights and auto turf scrubber. Wife is being awesome about it but I think I'm pushing my limits.

330 gal acrylic tank 96 x 30 x 30

I have been reading and learning so much that its almost overwhelming.
I intend to have fish and soft corals.
Tank is up and running with sand and rock for few days now.
I have this huge canopy in my garage that I need to get put on the tank but I need to get my lighting sorted out first.

I know.. I know. its been asked and answered 100 zillion times. I hoping that 100 zillion and 1 will be ok and not get me roasted for asking .

My mind is so full of numbers, manufacturers, water flow's, apex's, Fuji rocks, watts, pars, and soon to add divorce lawyers if I don't quit spending money and get this thing up looking good.

I am asking, for opinions on what lights I may want for this tank. Main goal is for the health and well being of the fish and corals. Second is visual's for us. I would love to have control of lighting as far as sun up and sun down. Love to have some lighting storms. Love it to work with this apex thing. Love it to last for ever and 3 days. Love it to cost about $25.00.

If I could please get some suggestions as to what I may want for this length and depth. It would be great. I was told $320 would cover it. Its looking like that may have been a little off. I don't need the best named brand. Just functionality.

Apologies for the same old question. If I keep reading these forums, and seeing all the different answers for other sized tanks and try to figure what I need, I'm gonna go nuts.
Many thanks for any advise.

Well, if you would love all that, then I would recommend going with 4 Radion XR30 pro's. But you won't love the cost. I love em, and they're a bit of an investment.

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

XNavyDiver said:
Well, if you would love all that, then I would recommend going with 4 Radion XR30 pro's. But you won't love the cost. I love em, and they're a bit of an investment.

yea. I may have to go with something that I would like a lot and maybe not so much love. I know something will have to give. I'm guessing that I would start with losing the ability to sync with apex would be the first to go. then perhaps the ability to create lighting storms. I just gave my wish list and suppose will have to work down from there.

Bpb · Feb 24, 2018

$320 is a very tall order for a tank that size AND having that level of control on lighting AND be able to provide an environment where ANY corals can not just survive but thrive. I’m not even convinced I could achieve that at a $320 price point for my 90 gallon.

Two things. What kind of corals do you intend to keep. Whatever it is. You’re going to want to get to at least 100 par at a 30” depth of water plus whatever distance above the tank you keep the lights. If there’s no data out there on the real world par of your intended light purchases. I wouldn’t buy them. Can those coralife LEDs provide 100 par at 30-40” depth? If not. Then don’t buy them. That’s it you’re just sticking with soft corals like leathers, Zoas, Xenia, and the like. Easier corals don’t tend to demand as much light.

Next. Fish stores are selling something. They sell that dirt cheap coralife, fluval, and current gear because they get it so cheap at wholesale. Their advice will be tainted with the desire to make a sale.

I’m sorry I don’t have a specific recommendation. Mainly because even the cheapest options of light that could sustain any coral out there and have ZERO control or effects (metal halides), will cost more than what you were quoted

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

Bpb said:
$320 is a very tall order for a tank that size AND having that level of control on lighting AND be able to provide an environment where ANY corals can not just survive but thrive. I’m not even convinced I could achieve that at a $320 price point for my 90 gallon.

Two things. What kind of corals do you intend to keep. Whatever it is. You’re going to want to get to at least 100 par at a 30” depth of water plus whatever distance above the tank you keep the lights. If there’s no data out there on the real world par of your intended light purchases. I wouldn’t buy them. Can those coralife LEDs provide 100 par at 30-40” depth? If not. Then don’t buy them. That’s it you’re just sticking with soft corals like leathers, Zoas, Xenia, and the like. Easier corals don’t tend to demand as much light.

Next. Fish stores are selling something. They sell that dirt cheap coralife, fluval, and current gear because they get it so cheap at wholesale. Their advice will be tainted with the desire to make a sale.

I’m sorry I don’t have a specific recommendation. Mainly because even the cheapest options of light that could sustain any coral out there and have ZERO control or effects (metal halides), will cost more than what you were quoted

yea. I'm guessing the 320 is going to be more around the $1000 mark. and yes it will be soft corals and fish.

Sgolden · Feb 24, 2018

Could go with 2 ati hybrid , modify to fit hydra 52 hd. I wouldn't do less than 6.
Most forums I've read really concentrate on a 24 front to back. A 30 requires a broader, higher intensity array. Black boxes if on a low budget. Radions will do it as well, but on a 8 ft 5 would be better to eliminate hot spots. Good luck !

Daltrey · Feb 24, 2018

You are basically looking for a fowlr (fish only with live rock) setup with low light demand corals so you can put whatever lights you want over it.

Link to low light corals.
http://homeaquaria.com/11-easy-low-light-corals-beginners/

Just put 4 mars aqua over it for $400 and be done.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017...+aqua+300w&dpPl=1&dpID=510-YtX88TL&ref=plSrch

Or two 4ft t5 fixtures with 8 ati t5ho bulbs for $400 total bulbs and all.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019J3UPUS/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519486552&sr=8-1-fkmr0&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=t5+light+fixturejebao+dcp+6000&th=1&psc=1

https://aquarium.bulkreefsupply.com/search?w=ati t5 bulbs

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

Sgolden said:
Could go with 2 ati hybrid , modify to fit hydra 52 hd. I wouldn't do less than 6.
Most forums I've read really concentrate on a 24 front to back. A 30 requires a broader, higher intensity array. Black boxes if on a low budget. Radions will do it as well, but on a 8 ft 5 would be better to eliminate hot spots. Good luck !

thanks

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

Daltrey said:
You are basically looking for a fowlr (fish only with live rock) setup with low light demand corals so you can put whatever lights you want over it.

Link to low light corals. Some only need 3 watts.
http://homeaquaria.com/11-easy-low-light-corals-beginners/

Just put 4 mars aqua over it for $400 and be done.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017...+aqua+300w&dpPl=1&dpID=510-YtX88TL&ref=plSrch

thanks

jda · Feb 24, 2018

For mushooms, xenia, kenya tree, etc., then what you were sold might be OK. These do not need a lot of light.

So will any black box - the lack a lot of "features" but also lack the pricetag - the coolness of the features does wane. A pair of 4 bulb T5s units will work too and are just plug-and-play - I would use the bulbs for 2 years over a tank like this.

Daltrey has some good links... check this out. All that I will add is that you can also get some of the higher end Chinese panels like SB Reef, OceanRevive or ReefBreeders with more features for a bit more money. Features can be a detriment if you change them all the time, though.

Bpb · Feb 24, 2018

Basically if you want automatic ramping with LEDs or any other programmable effects, and grow corals, $1000 will be the absolute rock bottom, lucky to find it, someone must really like you, type price for that to cover your tank. Big tank big money

BoomCorals · Feb 24, 2018

I’d go two 48” T5 fixtures. 8 bulbs each fixture. It gives you room to add lps and sps down the road when you realize you want to.

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

ok. my wife has now gotten involved in this discussion. she says that she does not want t5 bulbs. LED only.
so that is now part of my requirements.

Thanks for all advise and input. I am currently looking at the links provided so far.
please keep any thoughts coming. they are appreciated

BoomCorals · Feb 24, 2018

Then go with the cheap mars aqua for now. But you will need to upgrade them later at some point I’m sure.

And LED lights on a tank that size won’t be cheap. I had six radion xr30w over my 72” long tank because I was super sps heavy. If you add lps and sps later you’d need at least four. Similar cost for kessil, AI etc. Expect about $3k in lighting cost for anything decent at that point.

Just curious, why no T5?

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

BoomCorals said:
Then go with the cheap mars aqua for now. But you will need to upgrade them later at some point I’m sure. And LED lights on a tank that size won’t be cheap. I had six radion xr30w over my 72” long tank because I was super sps heavy. If you add lps and sps later you’d need at least four. Similar cost for kessil, AI etc. Expect about $3k in lighting cost for anything decent at that point.

Just curious, why no T5?

have to change the bulbs every couple of months and have to keep the metal reflector behind the lights completely clean and clear at all times. plus power consumption. again. this is not what we know. it is what we believe . as stated. new and learning.

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

Kordin said:
have to change the bulbs every couple of months and have to keep the metal reflector behind the lights completely clean and clear at all times. plus power consumption. again. this is not what we know. it is what we believe . as stated. new and learning.

also. we do understand that we may want better than the coralife ones. I have been approved for $1400 for lighting as of 5 mins ago. I don't think she is gonna budge much more than that though. I already over purchased on sand. 3 bags to many. live rock. found some awesome looking rock but had to buy it all. that was about 300 lb or so. the apex itself was an added 800 bucks. then the two pumps for it as well. heh. she is slowing my roll now.

Kordin · Feb 24, 2018

http://www.championlighting.com/search.php?mode=search

https://www.marinedepot.com/Maxspec...MI25z17Pu-2QIV1JF-Ch2Now-nEAQYASABEgI6k_D_BwE

these seem to be labeled the same but look different. I can get the champion ones for around 720 or so. would these be a good choice? and are these two lights the same?

Bpb · Feb 24, 2018

Kordin said:
have to change the bulbs every couple of months and have to keep the metal reflector behind the lights completely clean and clear at all times. plus power consumption. again. this is not what we know. it is what we believe . as stated. new and learning.

If all led is the absolute rule that is completely fine. But I have to correct you on your t5ho assumptions. Those are flat out wrong. Just wanting LEDs because you like them is perfectly fine so I’m not selling you on t5 here.

But ATI bulbs are perfectly fine to go 2 years between bulb changes. You hit about 14% par loss at the 9 month mark and it levels off at that point. Spectral shift may be 2-3% up or down here or there. Negligible. The whole “gotta change bulbs every 2-6 months” is a dramatic over assumption and flat out incorrect.

With a splash shield, your reflectors shouldn’t tarnish too bad. I’ve never cleaned the reflectors on my ati fixture. They’re silver coated so yes, there will be some tarnish spots, but they’re still effective enough to not fuss with replacing