New and looking for advise - Lighting

[Kordin]

If all led is the absolute rule that is completely fine. But I have to correct you on your t5ho assumptions. Those are flat out wrong. Just wanting LEDs because you like them is perfectly fine so I’m not selling you on t5 here.

But ATI bulbs are perfectly fine to go 2 years between bulb changes. You hit about 14% par loss at the 9 month mark and it levels off at that point. Spectral shift may be 2-3% up or down here or there. Negligible. The whole “gotta change bulbs every 2-6 months” is a dramatic over assumption and flat out incorrect.

With a splash shield, your reflectors shouldn’t tarnish too bad. I’ve never cleaned the reflectors on my ati fixture. They’re silver coated so yes, there will be some tarnish spots, but they’re still effective enough to not fuss with replacing

thanks for the info. like i said. we are still learning. thanks

 

[Bpb]

Honestly. I’d max that budget out and pick up a pair of used kessil ap700 units and mounts them 12” off the water. You’ll have all he control and features you want. Beautiful shimmer, and enough power to grow corals if you place them carefully. No, it wouldn’t be appropriate for wall to wall acropora I realize and that’s fine. But I think that would get you What you want. I see them go for $700 used quite often.

 

[Daltrey]

Honestly. I’d max that budget out and pick up a pair of used kessil ap700 units and mounts them 12” off the water. You’ll have all he control and features you want. Beautiful shimmer, and enough power to grow corals if you place them carefully. No, it wouldn’t be appropriate for wall to wall acropora I realize and that’s fine. But I think that would get you What you want. I see them go for $700 used quite often.

I agree. I'm looking for some now.

 

[jda]

Wait a minute... you have to clean reflectors? I have a kid going into high school that I think is older than my last reflector cleaning.

You are going to want 4 LEDs. 2 is not going to cut it to spread 4 feet each. 2 feet is a stretch for some if you have a lot of colonies making shadows.

Do not discount the T5... they are still well beyond what any LED has to offer as far as results, performance and ease. They do not offer any thunderstorms, though.

 

[Kordin]

Honestly. I’d max that budget out and pick up a pair of used kessil ap700 units and mounts them 12” off the water. You’ll have all he control and features you want. Beautiful shimmer, and enough power to grow corals if you place them carefully. No, it wouldn’t be appropriate for wall to wall acropora I realize and that’s fine. But I think that would get you What you want. I see them go for $700 used quite often.

the lights will be under a canopy. its 15 inches tall. hanging something 12 high might be a little tight . havent put the canopy on yet. we age going to go measure now. also. again. thanks for advise. would much rather buy new vs used as you never know how someone took care of their gear and its alot to spend with no warranty. just thinking out lound

 

[jda]

Generally speaking in reefing, buying high-quality used equipment is better than buying new lower-quality stuff. However, LEDs have a life span and do not fit into this category for me... even the expensive ones have failures. I would buy a used ATI T5 or MH fixture in a heartbeat.

 

[Kordin]

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=96465&cat=0&page=1

i can get the above for 610 new. if two would work. im not sure if thats what you guys are referring to?

are the t5 bulbs a better choice then? replacing bulbs. vs buying new led fixture after life span is complete?

also. and what about adjustablility (sp?) on t5?

how long will they be available.? they are gonna do away with them at some point due to environment issues yes? again. learning. please take no offense.

 

[Bpb]

2 would be sufficient for soft corals and satisfy your desire for programming and automation. I personally prefer t5ho lighting. It’s more effective for me at growing coral. But, it lacks a lot of the “cool factor” and features new led fixtures offer so it’s hard to get new hobbyists to give it a shot. I think starting with two kessils would be fine and if you decide you want more higher end coral, in the future down the road, you can add a 3rd or 4th or sell them (they retain value very well) and go with something different. Just my opinion. Some very experienced people will tell you you need more. And they’re right, if you want wall to wall sps corals. But I feel like you’re not exactly diving into the deep end there. That takes time and experience and will require other upgrades equally costly to lighting. If you can’t get those at least 12” up though it’ll look like two distinct spotlights rather than an even blanket.

 

[Daltrey]

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=96465&cat=0&page=1

i can get the above for 610 new. if two would work. im not sure if thats what you guys are referring to?

are the t5 bulbs a better choice then? replacing bulbs. vs buying new led fixture after life span is complete?

also. and what about adjustablility (sp?) on t5?

how long will they be available.? they are gonna do away with them at some point due to environment issues yes? again. learning. please take no offense.

$610 each is a steal. I would go that route. If you ever decide to go to more light demanding corals you can always add a third.

 

[jda]

Plan on a 4-5 year life of a LED fixture. Some use them for longer, but the vast majority have "upgraded" well before then. Some people might scoff at this, but then ask them how long they have had their current fixtures...

Also, plan on at least four someday... the 48" coverage for a AP700 is a farce in a real reef tank, IMO - the manufacturers severely overrate their stuff because they know that once you figure out that you do not have enough light, you have already purchased one of their products and will likely buy another since you are partly invested already. 36" is too much if you have a lot of stuff. Kessil is not the only one that does this... nearly all of them do.

I would change bulbs every two years on the tank that you are describing... or if one of them burns out. Most people with T5s buy bulbs on Black Friday or when the sites have sales and you can get them at a steep discount with free shipping. 4 or 6 bulb will easily grow what you described. A hydroponics unit like linked above is just fine.

 

[XNavyDiver]

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=96465&cat=0&page=1

i can get the above for 610 new. if two would work. im not sure if thats what you guys are referring to?

are the t5 bulbs a better choice then? replacing bulbs. vs buying new led fixture after life span is complete?

also. and what about adjustablility (sp?) on t5?

how long will they be available.? they are gonna do away with them at some point due to environment issues yes? again. learning. please take no offense.

t5's do a great job. Those are a good choice, but I'd go with 2 of the 48" ATI sunpowers (8X54 watt). What's been said above about bulb replacement and reflectors is true. You and your wife would be happy with those.

 

[Kordin]

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=30281&cat=0&page=1


640 each x 3 would be enough. or

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=96465&cat=0&page=1

610 each x 3

which of these two would be best?

thats really all she is gonna let me spend on lights


this is to fulfill my dream list of working with apex. lightning storms. programmable day and night cycle and great product.

 

[Bpb]

First link is broken for me. A note on excessive programming and storm features, get that out of your system when the tank is cycling before you load up on corals. Every successful reef hobbyist and coral aquaculture facility will tell you, the absolute number one key to success with LEDs is to turn them on, let them do their thing and DONT CHANGE OR MESS WITH THEM. Those features may look cool, but put TREMENDOUS stress on the corals metabolic functions and more often will ultimately kill them. Stability promotes success and that applies to light intensity and spectrum. Controllability in LEDs is the biggest downfall of the technology

 

[Kordin]

First link is broken for me. A note on excessive programming and storm features, get that out of your system when the tank is cycling before you load up on corals. Every successful reef hobbyist and coral aquaculture facility will tell you, the absolute number one key to success with LEDs is to turn them on, let them do their thing and DONT CHANGE OR MESS WITH THEM. Those features may look cool, but put TREMENDOUS stress on the corals metabolic functions and more often will ultimately kill them. Stability promotes success and that applies to light intensity and spectrum. Controllability in LEDs is the biggest downfall of the technology

EcoTech Marine Radion XR30w Pro Gen 4 was what the first link was too. it works for me. so not sure

i changed the link.. see if it works now

 

[Sgolden]

If you have invested in an 8ft tank, you should know the requirements to light would not be cheap. I'm guessing you got cought up in a go big or go home choice. Guys here can tell you all day of what you can get away with. But trust me, you will be disappointed to not adequately light your tank for every possible future scenario.

Buy cheap now, invest in higher quality later ? In the hobby, size matters. In my 5ft aquarium I'm at 2k. Because of the 30" any fixture will need to be installed long side front to back. And figure one every 18" or so.

 

[Fourstars]

Sounds like your stuck on LED. But here is what I did. I planned to someday upgrade to LED but so happy with these lights, I have not. You will have to upgrade the bulbs. I use phoenix 14k bulbs in mine. They sell a few different lengths. Topdogsellers treated me well, and I'm not affiliated with them .

Search this on Ebay, Didn't want to link, Not sure if it's okay here.
MH 48" Metal Halide T5 Aquarium Light 716W Coral Reef Marine LED 2x 250W Bulbs

 

[James Johnson]

You get what you pay for. Brand name products come with good warranties and after the fact support, that also last longer. Cheap Chinese lights are cheap for a reason, check out bulk reef supplies video on them. You could relate it to buying a new car or cellphone.
Also don't forget about hidden costs like bulb changes and ballasts going out. Bulbs have to be changed every 9-12 months that adds up. Consider the heat that a halide or t5 will put onto the tank and how much harder your chiller needs to work. Also consider the power consumption on leds vs other types of lighting and how much the tank is going to raise your power bill. Over the long haul leds are cheaper every time, but don't go cheap or you will not have them for a long time. I would go radion xr15s my self. At $400 each and a 2'x2' coverage area you will get the most programmable light there is that delivers great results and has all of the features you want. Plus over the coarse of 4-6 years they will cost you the least amount of money. It takes at least a year for a tank to just mature, shouldn't your lights last longer than that?

 

[James Johnson]

If all led is the absolute rule that is completely fine. But I have to correct you on your t5ho assumptions. Those are flat out wrong. Just wanting LEDs because you like them is perfectly fine so I’m not selling you on t5 here.

But ATI bulbs are perfectly fine to go 2 years between bulb changes. You hit about 14% par loss at the 9 month mark and it levels off at that point. Spectral shift may be 2-3% up or down here or there. Negligible. The whole “gotta change bulbs every 2-6 months” is a dramatic over assumption and flat out incorrect.

With a splash shield, your reflectors shouldn’t tarnish too bad. I’ve never cleaned the reflectors on my ati fixture. They’re silver coated so yes, there will be some tarnish spots, but they’re still effective enough to not fuss with replacing

I strongly disagree 2 year old ati t5 bulbs color coral like garbage and have much less par than a new bulb not to mention they loosetheir spectrum

 

[BoomCorals]

I strongly disagree 2 year old ati t5 bulbs color coral like garbage and have much less par than a new bulb not to mention they loosetheir spectrum

Not really. BRS did a video on this and showed how little they changed after a year. They’ll post another one when they finish the two year test.

 

[Bpb]

I strongly disagree 2 year old ati t5 bulbs color coral like garbage and have much less par than a new bulb not to mention they loosetheir spectrum

Eh. I realize that has been conventional wisdom for a while. There’s both empirical and anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody will hurt their tank by replacing them more often. Just depends on what metric you’re using to decide.

Par loss at all? At about the 3 month mark you can expect an 8-9% loss in par. If that technicality is enough reason, replace away. But I personally know people who have gone WELL past the 1 year mark with zero negative effects and the new data BRS has posted tends to support that stance.

I realize the BRS data is only ONE data set in a large topic, but it is a fairly well controlled experiment using commercial quality gear. While you shouldn’t base your entire maintenance regiment on what they say, it’s at least worth taking note of.

Most people replace bulbs before the 2 year mark anyway because they get bored with their color layout. But the spectral shift after one year on the most recent experiment was downright negligible. With a 2-3% decrease in the blue peaks and a mirrored increase in the red end. That’s like saying if you take the Radion ab+ program, and decrease the blue and violet a couple percent and bump the white and red, that you’ll have garbage growth and color. I suppose color is in the eye of the beholder, but I just fail to believe such a small change would make such a big impact. But...again. Color quality is an opinion, and growth has way too many factors involved to blame lights. Age alone will improve growth if all other factors remain the same