New tank, low Ph, now what?

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Nimitz

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I've had my tank up and running for about 1 month & there are currently 7 small fish in it. I used Bio Spyra to start when I added the first 3 fish after they had completed their quarentine period in my QT. Ammonia & nitrates are 0, phosphates are between 0 - .006, SG is 1.025, temp 78, Ca & Kh unknown at the moment (test kits arriving tonight). Ph had been reading 7.8 - 7.95 so before I did anything I checked the calibration on my Ph probe. After cal the Ph now reads 7.58.

So, looks like I definitely have low Ph. What are the typical causes of low Ph and what should I do to raise it while I track down & eliminate the cause? Thx!
 
Check ca,mg, and kh. When those are good ph is generally stable.


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I agree with the above posts. Fresh air from outside can increase ph some also. Whatever you do don't add any ph buffers to raise it.
 
ok, I'll check Ca, Mg & Alk when the test kits arrive .... can't really open up windows & doors to get fresh air but I can try adding a air stone. What would cause Ca, Mg & Alk to be off? Don't have any corals in the system & I'm using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt ... with a protein skimmer going isn't that aeriating the water like a big air stone?
 
I wouldn't do anything based on pH readings alone.

If your fish look fine and corals look fine (if you have any) the most I could recommend you to do would be to double your water change schedule for 1-2 weeks. Do up to 10% per day if you want to be a little more agressive. Use a quality salt and make sure you are mixing it correctly - water at least ~70°F, hotter is not needed and may be bad; pour salt into water, not water into the salt; whether by hand or pump mix aggressively.

Aside from that just chill out, watch your fish, and get a better read on the situation when you have your test kits. :-) You may come to find that alkalinity is a little depressed, but you can't tell by how much without a kit so a specific course of action is impossible to recommend.

Good luck - let us know how things develop and if you have questions!

-Matt

P.S. +1 to whoever said to test/take pH readings at the same time of day if you're measuring to see consistency or to gauge the effect of changes. Measure right before lights-on in the morning to see the daily low and right around lights out at night to see your daily high.
 
^^^Solid advice here. I stop short of telling people to NOT test for ph because it is important but you can do way more damage than good by trying to budge ph a few points. Keep salinity, alk, cal, mag in line and the rest will follow.
 
+1

low ph=high carbon dioxide.

always measure just before light out.

always check KH.

If ok then add macro or other algaes so the tank can become a new consumer of co2 and producer of oxygen. Due to the macro actions.

You probably should protect the algae in some kind of refugium and keep it away from sensitive corals as well.


my .02
 
There is a new chemical that can be added to solely raise PH and it doesn't effect the levels of calcium,mg and alk. Its fairly cheap too. What type of salt do you use? This can affect the PH.
 
to answer everyone's questions:
I use Tropic Marin Reef Pro salt
I have a fuge with Chelto in it on an opposing light cycle
my Ph is read continualily by a meter & it doesn't really vary between first thing in the morning & lights out at night (.05-.1 at most)
Alk is reading 6.16 dkh & Ca is reading 400
I have 7 small fish, 2 sm Zoa frags, 1 med leather toadstool & 1 med BTA

So it would appear that I may want to work on raising the Alk to around 9 and watch what happens ... I have plenty of Oceans Blend 2-part so adding some Part 2 is easy. My claculator says to go from 6.16 to 9 would require 400 ml of Part 2 so I could start with 50ml a day & see how it goes.

Anyone thing is this not a good plan?
 
to answer everyone's questions:
I use Tropic Marin Reef Pro salt
I have a fuge with Chelto in it on an opposing light cycle
my Ph is read continualily by a meter & it doesn't really vary between first thing in the morning & lights out at night (.05-.1 at most)
Alk is reading 6.16 dkh & Ca is reading 400
I have 7 small fish, 2 sm Zoa frags, 1 med leather toadstool & 1 med BTA

So it would appear that I may want to work on raising the Alk to around 9 and watch what happens ... I have plenty of Oceans Blend 2-part so adding some Part 2 is easy. My claculator says to go from 6.16 to 9 would require 400 ml of Part 2 so I could start with 50ml a day & see how it goes.

Anyone thing is this not a good plan?

Your opposing light cycle in the fuge is saving your ***. ;-) Without it, it's very likely you'd have seen some wicked pH spikes by now.

Tropic Marin Pro Reef has quite low alkalinity levels compared to most other salts. (What do you get when you test a fresh-mixed batch of this salt? May have to average the results from two or three mixes.) According to them it's intended for people who run calcium reactors. In your case I would not continue using this salt.

This is definitely the cause of your issue, I'm willing to bet on it. As I have said in the past, I've seen this very scenario play out with many people who tried to convert to Pro Reef "because it's better". (Pro Reef is not better, it's different....and IMO not appropriate for most tanks.) At your stage, with your tank, I would switch salts and make this issue go away with no further effort on your part.

With your compliment of corals (Toadstool is the only Ca consumer), there's no good reason for you to be dosing your tank yet. None. The reason you are having to is that your salt mix is not helping you maintain these levels as it should be.

Switching to plain Instant Ocean would be my recommendation. (If you feel stuck on the Tropic Marin brand, just switch to their regular formula and stick to that.) It has good numbers for alkalinity and within a few good-sized water changes your numbers should be back up to snuff quickly.

Since you already have the two-part (and assuming you don't mind using it to make up for your salt's deficiency), you could use up the rest of your Pro Reef and just test and supplement as needed with every water change, but if I were in your shoes I think I'd try to sell the remaining Pro Reef (it's expensive - if there's enough left for you to worry about) and move on to a more appropriate salt mix immediately. Save the two-part for it's intended purpose (making up for coral growth)! :-)

Good luck!

-Matt
 
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Matt: thx for the in-depth info. I have been trying to understand why my Alk woukld be low with basically no corals in the tank at all, should have started to suspect my salt. I do happen to like Tropic Marin and have always used it in the past but this was before reef tanks were around. I've been out of the hobby for a bunch of years and this will be my first tank with corals. I do have a Geo 618 Ca reactor but assumed I wouldn't be needing it for a while. My plan was to use 2-part once I started adding corals which require it until the demand rose to the point where a Ca reactor made more sense. Unfortunately I have a lot of the Tropic Marin Pro (Drs Foster & Smith have been selling it for $69/200g bucket with free shipping) but that doesn't mean I won't switch to IO. Not sure I'd be able to sell the TMP since it would have to be local and no one I know of in the 2 reef clubs I belong to uses it ... I'd hate to just throw the stuff away ... I've heard you can add baking soda to raise the Alk but would it be better to dose with Part 2 with the remaining salt I have & then move to IO via water changes ...?

What do you think about IO Reef Crystals? The reason I ask is that a friend of mine just shut down his whoesale reef shop & he had 3 pallets of the stuff he was looking to get rid of ... and I can probably get the stuff really cheap ...
 
to answer everyone's questions:
I use Tropic Marin Reef Pro salt
I have a fuge with Chelto in it on an opposing light cycle
my Ph is read continualily by a meter & it doesn't really vary between first thing in the morning & lights out at night (.05-.1 at most)
Alk is reading 6.16 dkh & Ca is reading 400
I have 7 small fish, 2 sm Zoa frags, 1 med leather toadstool & 1 med BTA

So it would appear that I may want to work on raising the Alk to around 9 and watch what happens ... I have plenty of Oceans Blend 2-part so adding some Part 2 is easy. My claculator says to go from 6.16 to 9 would require 400 ml of Part 2 so I could start with 50ml a day & see how it goes.

Anyone thing is this not a good plan?

Before you adjust anything do your self the favor of getting your magnesium nice and high. Keep in mind, as you try to raise you alkalinity you calcium will decrease about 20ppm per dkh, factor that in so that you can dose calcium appropiately.

Even if your reef isnt consuming much of these elements I would still want them in line from a Ph perspective.
 
Last edited:
agreed, and eventually I will be adding corals so I'd like it to be at a good starting point in the first place ...
 
Matt: thx for the in-depth info. I have been trying to understand why my Alk woukld be low with basically no corals in the tank at all, should have started to suspect my salt. I do happen to like Tropic Marin and have always used it in the past but this was before reef tanks were around. I've been out of the hobby for a bunch of years and this will be my first tank with corals. I do have a Geo 618 Ca reactor but assumed I wouldn't be needing it for a while. My plan was to use 2-part once I started adding corals which require it until the demand rose to the point where a Ca reactor made more sense. Unfortunately I have a lot of the Tropic Marin Pro (Drs Foster & Smith have been selling it for $69/200g bucket with free shipping) but that doesn't mean I won't switch to IO. Not sure I'd be able to sell the TMP since it would have to be local and no one I know of in the 2 reef clubs I belong to uses it ... I'd hate to just throw the stuff away ... I've heard you can add baking soda to raise the Alk but would it be better to dose with Part 2 with the remaining salt I have & then move to IO via water changes ...?

What do you think about IO Reef Crystals? The reason I ask is that a friend of mine just shut down his whoesale reef shop & he had 3 pallets of the stuff he was looking to get rid of ... and I can probably get the stuff really cheap ...

If you don't mind the extra cost and hassle, baking soda or two part adjustment and testing every mix bucket can fix your salt. But I'd recommend keeping it simple.

I'd try posting on Craigslist to sell it before undertaking that mess. IO or Reef Crystals would be a fine alternative...RC is a little more expensive and will raise your levels higher than you need them at the early stages, but not too high. As long as you aren't paying more than IO prices, the RC would be a good buy. Both of those salts are balanced for typical tanks, so either one will do you right.

(Salt dowsn't really have a shelf life, so you could hang onto it until you get the Ca reactor deployed - but I have to say that I'm not even sure I'd want a salt balanced like that in that scenario. Just a thought...definitely would not throw the Pro Reef away.)

agreed, and eventually I will be adding corals so I'd like it to be at a good starting point in the first place ...

This is a good practice to keep in general. Make all your dilutions, etc to get the numbers close before water changes and before trusting all your tests. As AJ pointed out, Alk, Ca and Mg all tend to flux when they are out of balance so you can't even really trust your test kits until the numbers are already pretty close. In practice, if you follow the proceedure below you really won't notice much of this flux. Just for the sake of curiosity, test all three params before and in between each of your doses to see how all the numbers change along the way.

Be interesting to hear others' approaches as well, but I always start by adjusting specific gravity, then test Alk, dose Alk, then test Ca, then dose Ca then Mg... You'd never adjust them all at once without retesting between doses. If a dose is particularly large, like your alk dose will be, I've even dosed 50% and retested before the second 50% just to double check that my progress is what I expected. (Again if your numbers weren't far off, this would not apply so much...for example, on daily doses I always drip Ca and Alk without testing in between because the difference is very small.)

-Matt
 

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