New Tank Syndrome?

Jason Partridge · Nov 24, 2018

New reefer here. My Red Sea 425XL is almost 5 months old and I am having issues with low PH, 7.4 to 7.5, and alkalinity increasing .2-.3 dkh per day. I presently dose magnesium, but nothing else. I have 2 reactors that are running nitrate pellets and the other using Rowaphos. Someone advised that I run an airline from my skimmer to outside of the house and tried kalkwasser to increase my PH, but alkalinity increases too much for the slight increase in PH. I obtain my water from my LFS, as I do not have the room for a RODI system. Is this just "growing pains" with my system and just need to ride it out, or am I missing some piece of chemistry I am not aware of? Any advice is appreciated.

NY_Caveman · Nov 25, 2018

Welcome to R2R!

Curious, why are you dosing Magnesium? How is Alkalinity rising?

NY_Caveman · Nov 25, 2018

Check this out for some scenarios. The “Zone 3” part references pH and Alkalinity issues that may be similar to your situation.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

NY_Caveman said:
Welcome to R2R!

Curious, why are you dosing Magnesium? How is Alkalinity rising?

My magnesium levels are usually around 1230-1240, which I was told to elevate closer to 1350. I have no idea why alkalinity is rising, especially if I am not dosing.

NY_Caveman · Nov 25, 2018

Jason Partridge said:
My magnesium levels are usually around 1230-1240, which I was told to elevate closer to 1350. I have no idea why alkalinity is rising, especially if I am not dosing.

Did you use some kind of pH buffer? They can raise Alkalinity. In general, I would suggest getting Alkalinity in line at the expense of pH and not chase pH at the expense of Alkalinity.

Your pH is pretty low though. Running an outside line to your skimmer air intake would likely be very beneficial to pH, if that is feasible. I wonder is there a lot of people in your home, is it sealed up for HVAC? Is there a reason CO2 levels would be high in your home?

Just trying to figure this out so I ask, how often are you water changing and what is the Alkalinity of the LFS saltwater? What are you topping the tank off with?

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

NY_Caveman said:
Did you use some kind of pH buffer? They can raise Alkalinity. In general, I would suggest getting Alkalinity in line at the expense of pH and not chase pH at the expense of Alkalinity.

Your pH is pretty low though. Running an outside line to your skimmer air intake would likely be very beneficial to pH, if that is feasible. I wonder is there a lot of people in your home, is it sealed up for HVAC? Is there a reason CO2 levels would be high in your home?

Just trying to figure this out so I ask, how often are you water changing and what is the Alkalinity of the LFS saltwater? What are you topping the tank off with?

I do run my HVAC all year round (sunny Southern California) and have several children, so I did run the skimmer line outdoors. My LFS saltwater's alkalinity is high 8s to low 9s, on average. I use RODI water for my ATO and have tested it for any alkalinity. If I understood the article you sent me, I may be doing too frequent water changes, as I religously change 25-30% every week.

NY_Caveman · Nov 25, 2018

Jason Partridge said:
I do run my HVAC all year round (sunny Southern California) and have several children, so I did run the skimmer line outdoors. My LFS saltwater's alkalinity is high 8s to low 9s, on average. I use RODI water for my ATO and have tested it for any alkalinity. If I understood the article you sent me, I may be doing too frequent water changes, as I religously change 25-30% every week.

That is a pretty big change out. Try 10% for a while if everything else is inline (like Nitrate and Phosphate) and see how pH and Alkalinity react. I believe in water changes, but your amount may be interfering with stability if the mix water is far from tank parameters.

Have you had a large Nitrate drop recently? Do you use any kind of water conditioner at all? Just does not make sense Alkalinity is rising.

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

NY_Caveman said:
That is a pretty big change out. Try 10% for a while if everything else is inline (like Nitrate and Phosphate) and see how pH and Alkalinity react. I believe in water changes, but your amount may be interfering with stability if the mix water is far from tank parameters.

Have you had a large Nitrate drop recently? Do you use any kind of water conditioner at all? Just does not make sense Alkalinity is rising.

Nitrates have been steady at <5ppm and phosphates at .02-.05. Not using any water conditioners, unless my LFS is with their RO.

NY_Caveman · Nov 25, 2018

Hmm.. very strange. I still think the best plan is to keep Alkalinity stable.

#reefsquad, any thoughts.

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

NY_Caveman said:
Hmm.. very strange. I still think the best plan is to keep Alkalinity stable.

#reefsquad, any thoughts.

Thank you so much for the insight. The article you shared definitely provides good direction.

Dr. Reef · Nov 25, 2018

What are u using to measure pH?
Is it a probe or color test?
All pH increasing products are simply alkalinity products and effects will last short time on pH while alk will increase too much.
Mag is fine dont have to increase it.
How are you measuring alkalinity?

Ranjib · Nov 25, 2018

How you are measuring your pH? Other than the numbers , do you see any I’ll effects ? Like corals are having hard time or no sps growth ?

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

Dr. Reef said:
What are u using to measure pH?
Is it a probe or color test?
All pH increasing products are simply alkalinity products and effects will last short time on pH while alk will increase too much.
Mag is fine dont have to increase it.
How are you measuring alkalinity?

I am using the Salifert PH test and the Hanna alkalinity checker.

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

Ranjib said:
How you are measuring your pH? Other than the numbers , do you see any I’ll effects ? Like corals are having hard time or no sps growth ?

Only using the Salifert PH tests. The only sps I have tried has been a birdsnest, stylo and monitpora cap. The stylo bleached very quickly and the others do not appear to be growing. The only lps I have are some torch, frogspawn and hammer corals, but they only appear to be surviving, not really growing.

Dr. Reef · Nov 25, 2018

Have had pH and Alk checked by a fellow reefer or Lfs. Compare the results.
Alk and pH are directly related and if alk is going up so should pH be even if its temporary.

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

Dr. Reef said:
Have had pH and Alk checked by a fellow reefer or Lfs. Compare the results.

I did have multiple people from my LFS run through a variety of test kits; API, Hanna, Red Sea and Salifert, each with similar results.

Pongo · Nov 25, 2018

I find your situation intriguing so please indulge what may seam to be a strange question but,

Please describe your lighting set up and have you measured PAR down to the sand bed/bottom of the tank?

Jason Partridge · Nov 25, 2018

Pongo said:
I find your situation intriguing so please indulge what may seam to be a strange question but,

Please describe your lighting set up and have you measured PAR down to the sand bed/bottom of the tank?

I am using 2 AI Hydra 26 lights, but have not measured PAR.

Pongo · Nov 25, 2018

If PAR is adequate for photosynthesis in corals your pH should change throughout the light cycle.
Lowest before lights on and highest at the end of the lighting cycle.

Have you measured these two ends of the light cycle to see if there is a variance?

Ranjib · Nov 25, 2018

Jason Partridge said:
Only using the Salifert PH tests. The only sps I have tried has been a birdsnest, stylo and monitpora cap. The stylo bleached very quickly and the others do not appear to be growing. The only lps I have are some torch, frogspawn and hammer corals, but they only appear to be surviving, not really growing.

You mentioned your tank is 5 months old.
I think pH is least of your problem

. Share as much info as possible about your tank. Tank parameters, equipment details, chores, livestock, major past events. This will give us some context and then we can methodically suggest you what needs to be checked next, or corrected next. pH is really not on in that lest. Stability, flow, light , chemistry (Ca, Alk) all comes way before pH. Given you have some corals already, i think you need to maintain stable water chemistry (20% water change is way too much). But, lets first understand the current state of things