New white specks after prazi treatment

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

So two of my Anthias were showing what I thought were signs of flukes. I did a Prazipro treatment, waited 5 days, then did a 50% water change and another Prazipro dose last night. This morning two fish have a handful of white specks they didn't have previously. The specks are towards the anterior portion of the fish - places near the head and gills. I'm wondering whether the Prazipro stressed them into a different affliction or whether they might be detaching flukes or something?

Brew12 · Jun 4, 2017

somebloke said:
So two of my Anthias were showing what I thought were signs of flukes. I did a Prazipro treatment, waited 5 days, then did a 50% water change and another Prazipro dose last night. This morning two fish have a handful of white specks they didn't have previously. The specks are towards the anterior portion of the fish - places near the head and gills. I'm wondering whether the Prazipro stressed them into a different affliction or whether they might be detaching flukes or something?

Flukes are rarely visible on a fish. If you are seeing white specks I would lean more toward Ich or Velvet. Flukes are translucent until they hit fresh water where they will turn white.
Odds are the original spots you saw dropped off, encysted, hatched, and you are now seeing the 2nd generation of the parasite. Any chance you can post a picture to help with making an ID? A rough rule of thumb is that small and numerous circular specks are velvet and if they are larger and oval shaped they are Ich.

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

Brew12 said:
Flukes are rarely visible on a fish. If you are seeing white specks I would lean more toward Ich or Velvet. Flukes are translucent until they hit fresh water where they will turn white.
Odds are the original spots you saw dropped off, encysted, hatched, and you are now seeing the 2nd generation of the parasite. Any chance you can post a picture to help with making an ID? A rough rule of thumb is that small and numerous circular specks are velvet and if they are larger and oval shaped they are Ich.

Below is a link to a photo taken with my (terrible) phone camera. You can see a couple of the spots. In the photo they look a little larger and have less of a contrast due to blurring. I'm pretty sure they were flukes because after morning feeding in the surface current the "spots" are gone. (The anthias slumber in low flow areas at night.)

Now my Blue-Spotted Jawfish that I wasn't directly targeting has something whitish sloughing off the top edge of his eye socket. I'm guessing that is some other type of fluke. He's also not eating which I hope is just a loss of appetite from the prazi.

http://imgur.com/a/ei8Qx

ngoodermuth · Jun 4, 2017

That doesn't look like velvet, could be ich but actually seems a bit "off" for that as well.

Since you said they are gone now, and you are done with the prazi, I would just give it a few days and see what happens. I have a feeling it was probably just a little reaction to the med.

Brew12 · Jun 4, 2017

somebloke said:
Below is a link to a photo taken with my (terrible) phone camera. You can see a couple of the spots. In the photo they look a little larger and have less of a contrast due to blurring. I'm pretty sure they were flukes because after morning feeding in the surface current the "spots" are gone. (The anthias slumber in low flow areas at night.)

Now my Blue-Spotted Jawfish that I wasn't directly targeting has something whitish sloughing off the top edge of his eye socket. I'm guessing that is some other type of fluke. He's also not eating which I hope is just a loss of appetite from the prazi.

http://imgur.com/a/ei8Qx

Agreed, doesn't look like Ich or Velvet. But, doesn't look like flukes, either.

Almost scared to say it, but could it be Brook?

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

ngoodermuth said:
That doesn't look like velvet, could be ich but actually seems a bit "off" for that as well.

Since you said they are gone now, and you are done with the prazi, I would just give it a few days and see what happens. I have a feeling it was probably just a little reaction to the med.

Thanks for the perspective. My last aquarium was freshwater 20+ years ago. I've researched the heck out of everything but still have a lot of uncertainty and probably some unwarranted worry. Without biological tests and microscopes, disease identification seems more of an art than anything.

My biggest worry right now is my Jawfish, a prolific eater who hasn't eaten since the first prazi dose about 5 days ago. I dosed in the display tank because supposedly Prazi is relatively gentle and well-tolerated. I think I'm going to pull it out with the skimmer and carbon and observe for a few weeks. Hopefully jawfish starts eating.

Thanks again for the perspective.

ngoodermuth · Jun 4, 2017

You can run the skimmer with prazi (without the cup so it doesn't overflow) it actually helps with oxygen exchange during treatment.

Also, as long as the fish have been exposed to each dose for at least 24 hours, you can pull out the medication between doses and after the second dose for fish or corals that might be sensitive to it.

If it's the prazi suppressing his appetite (which is possible) he should start eating again after a water change and some carbon.

If not, you might be dealing with another ailment and might consider moving him to QT for observation.

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

Brew12 said:
Agreed, doesn't look like Ich or Velvet. But, doesn't look like flukes, either.

Almost scared to say it, but could it be Brook?

I have a Blue-Spotted jawfish in the tank which I hear is susceptible to Brook...

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2017

None of these things are flukes. I'm sorry for that because it's generally easy to treat for. The blue spot sounds like he has either brook or a bacterial infection. The anthia looks like ich to me, though it could have just been sand or debris stuck to his slime coat. I'd like a picture of the jawfish though.

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

melypr1985 said:
None of these things are flukes. I'm sorry for that because it's generally easy to treat for. The blue spot sounds like he has either brook or a bacterial infection. The anthia looks like ich to me, though it could have just been sand or debris stuck to his slime coat. I'd like a picture of the jawfish though.

Jawfish images:

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2017

I'm sorry, but I can't see much in those pictures. What I can see looks like bits of sand stuck to his slimecoat.

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

melypr1985 said:
I'm sorry, but I can't see much in those pictures. What I can see looks like bits of sand stuck to his slimecoat.

I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it isn't substrate. Different size, has never happened before, and a different color. Accompanied with significant behavioral changes.

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2017

somebloke said:
I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it isn't substrate. Different size, has never happened before, and a different color. Accompanied with significant behavioral changes.

Can you pull him out for QT? That's the next step if that isn't just sand stuck to him. You might be able to get better pictures while he's in QT as well.

somebloke · Jun 4, 2017

melypr1985 said:
Can you pull him out for QT? That's the next step if that isn't just sand stuck to him. You might be able to get better pictures while he's in QT as well.

That's my plan for tomorrow.

somebloke · Jun 5, 2017

Trump (don't ask, it involves my brother in law, lol) is looking terrible this morning and it looks to me like marine ich. Maybe someone can confirm that. Small white spots all over his body and fins. He also has some of his coat "sloughing" off in some areas. You can see that by his right gill in one of the photos. Gave him a quick (2m) freshwater dip which seems to have livened him up a little bit.

Given that he is in a fairly quick decline, on the assumption that it is marine ick (correct me if you disagree), what's the best next step to take? I have mixed water ready along with plenty of marinepure biofilter and a small circulation pump. I just need to pick up meds, unless the best avenue is cupramine which I have on-hand. Petco opens in 2 hours and LFS in 5.

Given that he's a jawfish, do you think I should drop some substrate in a corner of the QT?

ngoodermuth · Jun 5, 2017

That looks like either velvet (most likely) or brook (possible, due to how you mentioned his slime coat sloughing off)

If you already did a freshwater dip, I would give him an acriflavine bath (ruby reef rally) and get him into QT with copper ASAP. You won't be able to go full therapeutic today, but don't take any longer than 48 hours getting there.

Make sure you have plenty of aeration, and dose the QT with kanaplex and metroplex as well. This will address the possibility of secondary infection and treat brooklynella just in case it is brook, and not velvet.

Read this, post 2 on emergency treatment:

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Velvet-(Amyloodinium-ocellatum).217570/

ngoodermuth · Jun 5, 2017

All fish will have to be treated as well, and the tank left fallow for *at least* 6 weeks. 76 days would be best, to eliminate ich as well.

somebloke · Jun 5, 2017

ngoodermuth said:
All fish will have to be treated as well, and the tank left fallow for *at least* 6 weeks. 76 days would be best, to eliminate ich as well.

Thanks so much for your response. Unfortunately the jawfish just perished. Along with that the tank has a Kole Tang and 6 Carberryi Anthias. The Kole Tang is showing significant signs and the Anthias very minimally. There are no inverts besides snails. Would an extended chloroquine phosphate treatment (if I can get it soon this morning) in the main tank be as good as letting it go fallow or am I better off buying a larger QT this morning (the current QT is really too small for my Kole Tang).

Edit: I'm going with copper treatment in a QT along with the dips you recommended. Thanks again, I'll let you know what unfolds...new territory and I can't believe how QUICKLY it decimated my jawfish.

4FordFamily · Jun 5, 2017

melypr1985 said:
None of these things are flukes. I'm sorry for that because it's generally easy to treat for. The blue spot sounds like he has either brook or a bacterial infection. The anthia looks like ich to me, though it could have just been sand or debris stuck to his slime coat. I'd like a picture of the jawfish though.

X2 this looks like ich to me as well. We are so accustomed to seeing velvet these days that ich gets harder for me to ID! Lol,

Sorry op, I know that's not what you wanted to hear

ngoodermuth · Jun 5, 2017

If it is ich (I still have trouble telling them apart when heavily afflicted), the same treatment would work. CP would work in a QT as well if you prefer that and have access to it.

You would want to hold on the metroplex and kanaplex though.