Nitrate dosing expectations

[Catfish2]

Update:
I dosed 40 ml the last 2 nights.
Nitrate went from 0.6 to 1.6 to 3.
Tonight I cut the dose down to 30 ml.

The only difference I can see other than superb algae growth is my Hollywood stunner chalice went from white with faintly green mouths to light brownish/greenish with bright green mouths.

 

[Mattrg02]

Update:
I dosed 40 ml the last 2 nights.
Nitrate went from 0.6 to 1.6 to 3.
Tonight I cut the dose down to 30 ml.

The only difference I can see other than superb algae growth is my Hollywood stunner chalice went from white with faintly green mouths to light brownish/greenish with bright green mouths.

Sounds like it's working then, just takes time. The colors will begin to show up in the next few weeks.

Most my corals bleached out. After dosing, they went to a tan/brown color before developing a green shimmer. The green shimmer then gives way to colors.

 

[Torqued]

Do you have fish?? If not just add fish and feed them. Dosing nitrate is kinda silly otherwise. Especially if u have to add phosphate too. More food is all u need

 

[Torqued]

I overdosed last night now they are 50
lol

Another reason that "dosing" nitrate is not the ideal way....

 

[madweazl]

Do you have fish?? If not just add fish and feed them. Dosing nitrate is kinda silly otherwise. Especially if u have to add phosphate too. More food is all u need

For some of us, it seems to be the only viable option. I have 11 fish in a 75g (SPS dominant) that are fed quite well and nitrates get wiped out. Once they drop to zero, my phosphates start to creep up. I'd rather dose nitrates than remove the phosphates via GFO or the like.

Edit: forgot my goby died yesterday, make that 10 fish.

 

[Mattrg02]

Feeding fish more adds more than just nitrates and phosphates. Dosing these is actually the ideal way to do this since it can be highly controlled.

We control everything else in these tanks, nutrients shouldn't be any different. Just need to calculate dosing correctly.

Matt

 

[Catfish2]

Do you have fish?? If not just add fish and feed them. Dosing nitrate is kinda silly otherwise. Especially if u have to add phosphate too. More food is all u need

I really appreciate the input. This is a common option I've heard a lot of people recommend. I tend to agree more with Mattrg02 though. I would rather add these in a more controlled fashion. I dose precise amounts of alk and ca, why not nitrate (and phosphate if needed).
I only have a yellow tang and a lawnmower blenny so I'm sure it's true that my low bio load leads to low nutrients for the coral. I could buy more fish, but then I would have less money for coral. Seriously though, in my mind more fish is just another variable to have to account for. Something dies unexpectedly, fish aggression to deal with, a polyp nipper... who knows what. I'll add a fish if I have a specific job for him, but eating and then pooping isn't enough of a job for me to hire more fish specifically for.

 

[Mattrg02]

I really appreciate the input. This is a common option I've heard a lot of people recommend. I tend to agree more with Mattrg02 though. I would rather add these in a more controlled fashion. I dose precise amounts of alk and ca, why not nitrate (and phosphate if needed).
I only have a yellow tang and a lawnmower blenny so I'm sure it's true that my low bio load leads to low nutrients for the coral. I could buy more fish, but then I would have less money for coral. Seriously though, in my mind more fish is just another variable to have to account for. Something dies unexpectedly, fish aggression to deal with, a polyp nipper... who knows what. I'll add a fish if I have a specific job for him, but eating and then pooping isn't enough of a job for me to hire more fish specifically for.

A dead fish, while you sleep, could be a catastrophe due to the ammonia spike when you have $200 acropora frags.

I have a 17g tank. I don't have any room for error.

 

[Catfish2]

Update:
Catastrophic failure

I got nitate up to 3 ppm by dosing 40 ml regularly. When I got to 3, I was happy so I cut back on the dosing to 30 ml. Nitrate continued to climb so I reduced dosing each day. Nitrate got up to 10 ppm at the highest so I stopped dosing altogether.

As nitrate increased, I noticed some STN, first on a birdsnest, then poor polyp extension on most SPS. And some serious algae.

Once I stopped dosing, the nitate decreased a little everyday to its current level of 2 ppm.

During that 2 week period nearly every SPS has started with STN.

The only thing I can think is the increase happened to quickly, but it only ever got up to 10 and that was over the course of 13 days.

I intentionally haven't done a water change, because for the last 2 weeks my parameters are exactly where I want them, but the STN continues.

I was embarrassed to post this, but if it helps someone else then it's worth it.

I'm so bummed. I'm especially bothered because I did exactly what I was trying to do. Its not like I made a mistake.

I was hoping the STN would stop and everything could recover, but things seem to still be getting worse.

Should I resume nitrate dosing to maintain at 2-3ppm? It scares me to keep adding the stuff that ruined all my frags.

Any advice anyone has is appreciated.

 

[Mattrg02]

Update:
Catastrophic failure

I got nitate up to 3 ppm by dosing 40 ml regularly. When I got to 3, I was happy so I cut back on the dosing to 30 ml. Nitrate continued to climb so I reduced dosing each day. Nitrate got up to 10 ppm at the highest so I stopped dosing altogether.

As nitrate increased, I noticed some STN, first on a birdsnest, then poor polyp extension on most SPS. And some serious algae.

Once I stopped dosing, the nitate decreased a little everyday to its current level of 2 ppm.

During that 2 week period nearly every SPS has started with STN.

The only thing I can think is the increase happened to quickly, but it only ever got up to 10 and that was over the course of 13 days.

I intentionally haven't done a water change, because for the last 2 weeks my parameters are exactly where I want them, but the STN continues.

I was embarrassed to post this, but if it helps someone else then it's worth it.

I'm so bummed. I'm especially bothered because I did exactly what I was trying to do. Its not like I made a mistake.

I was hoping the STN would stop and everything could recover, but things seem to still be getting worse.

Should I resume nitrate dosing to maintain at 2-3ppm? It scares me to keep adding the stuff that ruined all my frags.

Any advice anyone has is appreciated.

Sorry to hear that. If nothing else changed, I'd suspect the nitrate chemicals being used. I switched over to seachem flourish nitrogen because the stump remover kept growing stuff in the storage container.

What is your potassium at? Maybe it got out of whack.

 

[phillygeeks]

I've been there. I found some frags that look just about gone do survive given time. The best source of nitrates I have found after my series of prior misfortunes are a decent population of fish and good feeding habits. Stability at 2ppm nitrates would be great. However, I can't say whether further dosing of stump remover is a good way

 

[Catfish2]

Thanks for the input. I'm not using sump remover though. I'm using food grade sodium nitrate. This stuff:

I have no idea what my potassium is. I've never checked that. How it's that related to nitrate?

Thanks!

 

[phillygeeks]

Thanks for the input. I'm not using sump remover though. I'm using food grade sodium nitrate. This stuff:

I have no idea what my potassium is. I've never checked that. How it's that related to nitrate?

Thanks!

Gotcha! I got caught on the post above mine and missed that you weren't using stump remover. As I understand it feeding more leads to a rise in nutrients more than just an isolated rise in nitrates, which I believe is more beneficial to coral.

 

[Mattrg02]

Thanks for the input. I'm not using sump remover though. I'm using food grade sodium nitrate. This stuff:

I have no idea what my potassium is. I've never checked that. How it's that related to nitrate?

Thanks!

I assumed you were using stump remover which is potassium nitrate.

Something may have gotten into the tank. Do you run any carbon?

 

[Catfish2]

I run brs rox 0.8 carbon in a reactor, but I am due to change it out. I was wondering if something got in there because my skimmer has been going nuts. Check out the pic. The foam never really collapses into liquid. I assumed it was from the nitrate dosing, but maybe not.

Does the skimmer usually go nuts and overflow when dosing nitrate?

Other than the sodium nitrate im not sure what else would have got in there though. The tank is in its own room. Only aquarium stuff is in there.

 

[Catfish2]

For reference, here is a before and after.

After:

 

[Mattrg02]

Yeah, those look like goners. Your skimmer shouldn't suddenly increase its output unless something got in. You could check for ammonia incase something died.

The last time I had a total crash, losing all corals, I had an ammonia spike after moving.

 

[Catfish2]

Prior to nitrate dosing my skimmer would make a little bit of skimmate, I could go 3 weeks without emptying the cup though.

After I started dosing, the cup takes less than a week to look like this. And the foam is really dry and think.

I'll check my ammonia. The only thing that has died is the coral. There's only 3 fish so it's not like one could go missing without me knowing. I did add a tomini tang to help with some of the algae about 3 weeks ago, but I wouldn't expect him to make much off a difference in 130 gallon system. it doesn't hurt to check ammonia though.

 

[Ocelaris]

The thing with organic nutrients that is difficult, is that there are complex biological pathways and storage mechanisms. Calcium and alkalinity are relatively straightforward compared to the nitrogen cycle. I've dosed nitrates off and on as my feeding increases or decreases, and it's a crutch if I haven't been able to feed really meaty food three times a day.

I have found phosphates to be my limiting nutrient after getting the Hanna ulr checker. With that said the thing that has helped me the most is lfs reef frenzy. Tons of different sized particles and it's basically feeding the entire reef. With that egregious wasteful feeding I've been able to keep my nitrates and phosphates up. I've been fighting algae, but I think once there is enough coral to compete it will get easier.

Nota sure if the picture is too small, but my pink lemonade acropora has started showing great color. On the other hand I've fought random tissue necrosis where there's not enough flow. But stn hasn't been an issue lately. It's a very tricky balance, and I wouldn't say we could explain everything about coral health with just phosphates and nitrates, it's a good indicator, but keep up the feeding and things will get back to where they should shortly. I've had a full minicolony die half way back, get covered with algae, and it's now regrown over the algae. Don't lose hope!

 

[Catfish2]

The thing with organic nutrients that is difficult, is that there are complex biological pathways and storage mechanisms. Calcium and alkalinity are relatively straightforward compared to the nitrogen cycle. I've dosed nitrates off and on as my feeding increases or decreases, and it's a crutch if I haven't been able to feed really meaty food three times a day.

I have found phosphates to be my limiting nutrient after getting the Hanna ulr checker. With that said the thing that has helped me the most is lfs reef frenzy. Tons of different sized particles and it's basically feeding the entire reef. With that egregious wasteful feeding I've been able to keep my nitrates and phosphates up. I've been fighting algae, but I think once there is enough coral to compete it will get easier.

Nota sure if the picture is too small, but my pink lemonade acropora has started showing great color. On the other hand I've fought random tissue necrosis where there's not enough flow. But stn hasn't been an issue lately. It's a very tricky balance, and I wouldn't say we could explain everything about coral health with just phosphates and nitrates, it's a good indicator, but keep up the feeding and things will get back to where they should shortly. I've had a full minicolony die half way back, get covered with algae, and it's now regrown over the algae. Don't lose hope!

Thanks for the input and encouragement. I won't be giving up! I've left the STNing frags in there to see if they can make a come back, but I'm not very optimistic. I won't let this set back stop me though. I know it's all part of the experience.

I was of the mind that dosing nitrate in a controlled fashion would be safer and more precise, but maybe I'll go with the more fish and feeding method now.

I've decided to stop dosing the nitrates because I'm gun shy, nitrates are now at 0.75 ppm. Phosphate is at 0.025 ppm.

I'm assuming my nitrates will keep dropping until I up the feeding and/or add some more fish.

How often do people typically test nitrate and phosphate. I was testing daily while I was dosing nitrate, but that seems a little overboard for an extended period of time.