Nitrates off the scale

[Adam Baggett]

OK So I do not know where to post this here so this looks like the best place.

I have a 75 Gal 'Want to be Reef' tank. I have a low fish load and my Nitrates are off the chart. I would like to keep coral but i am killing everything that I put in the tank. :cry:

Equipment:
75 Gal tank
30 Gal sump
SWC 150 Skimmer (Works great)
Filter socks (Changed regularly)
BRS dual GFO/carbon reactor (Changed regularly)
BRS Bio Pellets reactor
2 x 250W 20,000k MH with 2x x T5 Blue Actinics and Moon LEDs
2 x Jeabo WP40s in Reef Crest Mode
Apex Jr. Tank Controller

Stats:
PH 8.35
Temp 76 - 77
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 0
Nitrates Off the scale!!!

The tank is 2 years old

I am running a Deep Sand Bed and have plenty of rock in the tank. I do 30% water changes at the weekend, not wanting to do more so I do not send the tank into a mini cycle.

I want to keep coral more than fish but I have had no luck and I do not want to add anything else until I get this under control.

Any ideas?

 

[Jimbo662]

Are the nitrates always high or are you just recently seeing a spike? When you do water changes are you disturbing the sand?

 

[Adam Baggett]

Yes the Nitrates are always high, even after the water change. I try not to disturb the sand as I know it locks up Nitrates while they are being dealt with. I am thinking of cleaning it though to make sure that is not the issue, I know you must do a small patch at a time. I do also have new sand for a bigger tank and I might replace it but I will strip the tank to do that. I am trying to avoid stripping the tank so I do not upset my fish.

 

[Russellaqua]

What is your livestock list? How much are you feeding? There's something odd here as your ammonia and nitrite are listed as 0. There have to be ammonia and nitrite in the system to allow the production of nitrates. Either that or something happened in the tank that started a new cycle that you didn't see until the ammonia and nitrite had been converted to nitrate.

 

[Pete polyp]

There's definitely something going on that's strange. You have a skimmer, biopellets and a deep sand bed. While the skimmer doesn't remove nitrate, it does remove organics before they can turn into ammonia. The deep sand bed and pellets both remove nitrate.

How deep is your sand? How much of the pellets are you using? How much flow are the pellets getting? From what I understand the more pellets and/or flow the more nitrate reduction.

You might try removing the filter socks for a couple weeks and see what happens.

 

[redfishbluefish]

First off, since you are running biopellets, stop running GFO. You need both phosphate and nitrate for biopellets to work. Also, you want the exit port of your reactor to be next to the pick-up of your skimmer.


What is your water source?....hopefully RO/DI water. Regardless, I'd check the water to see if it's coming from your water source.


Otherwise, I'd continue with frequent water changes.

 

[Pete polyp]

First off, since you are running biopellets, stop running GFO. You need both phosphate and nitrate for biopellets to work. Also, you want the exit port of your reactor to be next to the pick-up of your skimmer.


What is your water source?....hopefully RO/DI water. Regardless, I'd check the water to see if it's coming from your water source.


Otherwise, I'd continue with frequent water changes.

Good eye... I completely missed the gfo

 

[Adam Baggett]

OK sorry for the slow reply, was out to lunch. To answer your questions.

Russellaqua
I have:
1 x Yellow Tang (Medium)
1 x Eibli Angel (Small)
1 x White Stripe Tomato Clown (Large)
2 x Green Chromus (Small)
1 x Percula Clownfish (Medium
1 x Blue Damsel
Good sized Clean Up Crew

I feed sparingly, 3 times a day but small amounts and nothing that they cannot consume within 5 minuets. 3 times a day because fish like Chormus need it to be healthy.

Pete polyp
My sand bed is 5 inchs at its deepest point. I am using 1 to 1 1/2 cups of Bio Pellets. They are BRS bio pellets and the reccomend 1 cup per 50 gal

redfishbluefish
OK I can stop the GFO and just run carbon, or what else could I put in the first chamber?

Yes only RODI water with 0 - 1 TDS as it comes out of the filter and I have checked the RODI water for Nitrates and it is 0 as I would expect.

Thanks for all the replies!!!!

 

[eliramos]

another problem i see is the stock list… i know its a 75 gallon but you have 7 fish in there and a tangs waste production can almost make it like 2 fish…
also 3 times a day is a lot i know your worried about your chromis but i fed mine once a day for years and he was fine i eventually gave him a way…cut the feeding big time! only do once a day if it makes you feel better twice but morning and night 3 times is a lot unless you have a harem of anthias. also what are you feeding? if its frozen you want to rinse it in ro water first. the cubes are full of extra stuff you don't want to just toss in your tank.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Skimmer is to small for the system, it may be working great but if it truly was there wouldn't be issues. Next, if your running pellets something is wrong with them, unless you just started.
next ditch it all and start carbon dosing, vodka. I can have your nitrates down in 2 weeks with nothing but possibly a cloudy tank for a week. And nothing dead. And you can feed all you want to.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Biopellets is just like carbon dosing (vodka, to name one), with the exception the bacteria is not in your water column, but within a reactor where they are sluffed off and ideally imediately picked up by your skimmer. Carbon dosing also requires both phospates and nitrates as well. Without the phosphates, that is just a waste of vodka. I'd stick with pellets because of the issue over your entire water column being saturated with bacteria otherwise.

 

[Adam Baggett]

Thanks to everyone for the GREAT information, this is an AWESOME group.

eliramos
I have an Apex Auto Fish Feeder that texts me when it is feeding the tank, it gives just a little flake. I also have a webcam attached to the tank so I can see how much food goes in, I have watched it and it is a very small amount, that is twice then I have a mix of food. I make some of my own that I am Very careful with. I wash it before I freeze it and then it is washed again in RODI water before feeding, I alternate that with missis and other food and I also sometimes only put in 1/2 a sheet of Nori which my Tang and Angel devour in minuets.

Reefing Madness
My Skimmer is rated to 150 gal tank on a light load. I would say I have a medium loaded tank so 120 gal. Even with the heavy loaded it says a 90 Gal tank is fine.My Skimmer does start and stop as the bio load builds up and is taken out. The exit pipe from the bio pellets is right in front of the skimmer also and I am thinking if modding it so my bio pellets feed into the pump directly.

SWC Skimmer here

I tried the vodka dossing for a while before I went to Bio Pellets about 6 months ago. Vodka did not help and was a total pain to maintain.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Incorrect, the system doesnt need any phosphates to vodka dose, thats a myth. Caron Dosing barely brings down the phosphate numbers.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Well this is the way I look at it....vodka, vinegar, biopellets are simply bacteria food. The addition of any of these methods causes for an increase in bacterial growth. This increase in growth is then "exported" by your skimmer. Bacteria (or any plant or animal for that fact) requires certain compounds for them to survive and grow. One of these needs is both phospate and nitrates....... nitrates within things like amino acids (proteins and enzymes) and phophates within stuff like ATP/ADP. The ratio of these needs is somewhere in the area of 1 to 16 for phosphate and nitrate, respectively. That is why you only see a slight drop in phosphates, while nitrate drops considerably. So yes, regardless of how you feed your bacteria, both phosphate and nitrate is required. If one or the other is missing, no growth of bacteria and therefore no export of nitrate or phosphate.

 

[Pete polyp]

Vodka, vinegar, biopellets are the same thing!

 

[Adam Baggett]

What do you all think of Zeolite and Zeolite Reactors. I am a bit of a Tech Head and love the toys. But this will help to get to an ULNS. https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-aquarium-discussion/160187-ultra-low-nutrient-systems.html

 

[redfishbluefish]

Vodka, vinegar, biopellets are the same thing!

They are the same in the sense that they are all "food" for bacteria. Any one of these will cause for an incease in bacteria (and other life forms with the liquid additions...potentially algae, cyano, etc.....because it's food for them as well)

 

[Pete polyp]

They are the same in the sense that they are all "food" for bacteria. Any one of these will cause for an incease in bacteria (and other life forms with the liquid additions...potentially algae, cyano, etc.....because it's food for them as well)

Yes, I mean its all carbon dosing. For some reason lots of people think that biopellets aren't a form of carbon dosing.

The zeolite works a little differently. Yes it uses the same bacteria to remove nitrates. But it also removes many other things that will have to be supplemented. Ulns can be achieved in many different ways. Zeolite and carbon dosing are both one of the ways to achieve ulns.

 

[ChristopherKriens]

Incorrect, the system doesnt need any phosphates to vodka dose, thats a myth. Caron Dosing barely brings down the phosphate numbers.

Yeah.. No. Bacterial reproduction can definitely be phosphate-limited. If PO4 levels really are at zero, an accumulation of nitrate is what one would expect. I will third the recommendation to remove GFO.

 

[fishroomlady]

I think that the gfo identified earlier may be part of the problem. Stop running that and see what happens to your nitrates. Everything you're doing should not lead to high nitrates which is what you have.....