No coral growth

[tigre44]

After 3 yrs I have virtually no growth in my corals. They include mushrooms, zoa's, plays, leathers and others. My parameters are:
Alk. 3.28
Ca 599 I know it is high
Phos. 0 to .05
Nitrate. 0
Mg 1350
Sal. 1.024
Temp 77
I use RODI water.
I think the problem is in the nitrate level but I have never gotten it above s very slight level. When I turn off the gfo/carbon the phos rises to .10 or higher but nitrate doesn't move and algae grows. I add trace minerals once per week 10 ml. I add amino acids 5 ml 3 times per week. Also my tank is a 60 gal with 20 gal sump. Lighting is an old coral life, I think, 2 my 14k 250 watt with 4 power compacts 55 watt 2 are blue actinic and 2 are actinic white. My run 5 hrs and actinics run 5 hrs off 5 then run again 5 hrs. Moon lights run for 4 hrs then dark for 7 hrs. Also I have 4 small fish. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Sm51498]

Is your alk really 3.28 dkh? that needs to come up badly. normal alk is ~8 dkh. good news though, that is just baking soda. I would try to very slowly raise that and see what happens before you do anything else.

 

[jasonb87]

If alk is dkh you need ro slowly raise it up to 8.
How heavy do you feed your fish?

 

[Humblefish]

^^ In addition to the above, you will have difficulty growing softies with 0 nitrates. They like nutrients i.e. dirty water.

 

[tigre44]

3.28 meq equals about 9.2 dkh. I feed once per day either flake or frozen brine shrimp. Also 5 day I feed lightly
Roe to the coral. I know or think I do that nitrates are too low. How do I get them up. I thought what I'm doing would get them to rise.

 

[spspirate]

I would also raise the specific gravity to 1.026

 

[jasonb87]

3.28 meq equals about 9.2 dkh. I feed once per day either flake or frozen brine shrimp. Also 5 day I feed lightly
Roe to the coral. I know or think I do that nitrates are too low. How do I get them up. I thought what I'm doing would get them to rise.

Can you feed twice a day to try and raise nitrates?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

When I turn off the gfo/carbon the phos rises to .10

dump the gfo, keep the carbon, dont run too much or agressively. figure out where that Po is coming from. thats pretty high to just happen.
consider a refugium or algae scrubber for nutrient export..
skip a water change. it wont effect Po , but i will leave No.

I add amino acids 5 ml

stop that. real food is better, your prob feeding cyano.
what fish do you have? consider meaty foods if they eat it, or real algae.

happy fish happy poop happy coral

My run 5 hrs and actinics run 5 hrs off 5 then run again 5 hrs. Moon lights run for 4 hrs then dark for 7 hrs

try an even photo period. make it peak and fall off like a day, however long you want it.

 

[tigre44]

Ok I'll dump the gfo, I only run it now for 4 hrs/day and use about a 1/4 cup. I have two percula clowns and 2 yellow tail blue damsels. I will drop the flake food and stay with the shrimp and roe. I chg 5 gals of water every two weeks I'm a little reluctant to reduce that but will if the other changes don't help. Explain lighting again. Actinics 4 hrs then off then mh for 5 hrs then off then actinics 5 hrs then off then moon lights 4 hrs then off for 7 hrs. My attempt to create a normal day light cycle. I also run gyre 150; 2 power heads and a dinner 9.5. I have a 10' head so the danner does not flow that much.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ok I'll dump the gfo, I only run it now for 4 hrs/day and use about a 1/4 cup. I have two percula clowns and 2 yellow tail blue damsels. I will drop the flake food and stay with the shrimp and roe. I chg 5 gals of water every two weeks I'm a little reluctant to reduce that but will if the other changes don't help. Explain lighting again. Actinics 4 hrs then off then mh for 5 hrs then off then actinics 5 hrs then off then moon lights 4 hrs then off for 7 hrs. My attempt to create a normal day light cycle. I also run gyre 150; 2 power heads and a dinner 9.5. I have a 10' head so the danner does not flow that much.

I dont know the height of the light over the tank or depth of the tank and rock work, so I cant guess on par or intensity.

But me Id go Led, PC's #1 on Pc's#2 onthen Mh on@ peak. then reverse. MH off Pc 2 off PC1 off Led off good night.

That is a lot of light though at peak. Both Pc'c in comparison is not very much. Imo you could run the pc all day with no ill effects. Might even be better but if you add the MH with that low nutrient you may get angry coral. or add it only for a couple hours at peak.

truth be told, back in the day, most would put all pc on and then MH and not worry much. with your lower nutrients at the moment I would go slow and acclimate.

if you'd like I can look at the tank if you have a picture of it and the lights

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@Humblefish do you recall Paul B's favorite frozen food? Reef Nutrition? Im drawing a blank.
That's someting to look at. There's less vitamin c than LRS IMO, it just flash frozen and water. theres also a whole line to choose from. I prefer a mix of shrimp and meat.
the common wisdom is flake food may have higher Po ingredients as binders(bone meal basically) and shelled animals have higher Po because of the shell.

 

[skim]

I believe you have too much light over your 60 Gal. You have 720 of high intensity watts over that 60 gal. tank. I believe your corals have been putting all their energy into fighting against your lighting instead of growing and not one SPS, even SPS would battling some of that light. You may want to take a look at this video. Hope it be of some help.

 

[Humblefish]

@saltyfilmfolks I didn't even know Paul fed frozen, unless he freezes his clams before feeding them.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@saltyfilmfolks I didn't even know Paul fed frozen, unless he freezes his clams before feeding them.

He Does actually . He'd been in convo with one of the sponsors, as they "made some claims", turned out to be true. its just flash frozen. that's it.
I forget the brand, as I cant get it here.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I believe you have too much light over your 60 Gal. You have 720 of high intensity watts over that 60 gal. tank. I believe your corals have been putting all their energy into fighting against your lighting instead of growing and not one SPS, even SPS would battling some of that light. You may want to take a look at this video. Hope it be of some help.

Umm yes and no I think. Keeping in mind the fixture hes using was the industry standard probably producing 5 to 800 maybe 1000 par at the top of the water. depending on height. to leave about 100 par on the bottom.
Some some folks are lighting sps as 1500+ at the coral and are really successful. Most MH users in fact are running those levels, 6 to 1500 at the top.
"too much" is relative, and maybe a misnomer as it should be more than you actually need. Im sure youve read Danas "too much light" article.
The question I had for Mr Riddle while I was there at that talk was why does it seem for some coral this is not true, as ive also seen that as well. coral not growing under good water, but only responded to higher light intensies Over the 400 par mark. Unfortunately he was a bit nervous at the talk and Dr Bingman and he afterward took up his time on coral biology questions, till we literally all ran out of the room to the next talk.

If you look A Russ's My coral are bleaching thread he discusses it there, hes running extremely high Pars with what most folks consider low light animals, but balancing the nutrients well. I do similar but w lower light. My best Acro gets the same intensity as the Xenia in my tank. Its also an interesting observation as you speak to much older reefers who just put similar fixtures up and the stuff just grew. thus the frustration w led. its absolutely fascinating really. The corals actually do, use what they need, and then shut down.

What I really wanted to ask Dana was to come over to my friends house with a row 250w mh 10in over the coral and have him explain why he has such amazing growth. and what kind of beer he likes.

 

[Humblefish]

He Does actually . He'd been in convo with one of the sponsors, as they "made some claims", turned out to be true. its just flash frozen. that's it.
I forget the brand, as I cant get it here.

Might be this since it contains blackworms : http://www.larrysreefservices.com/fish-frenzy.html

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Might be this since it contains blackworms : http://www.larrysreefservices.com/fish-frenzy.html

yup. That;s the stuff. LRS. Paul beat him up in typical Paul fashion but the stuff passed the test. I want to try it out for mandarin and pipe conditioning.

A balanced diet and quality food really does IMO make a big difference not only in the fish but in the overall health of a tank, as we are actually feeding the whole tank.

and I'm lazy and don't want to rinse

 

[Humblefish]

yup. That;s the stuff. LRS. Paul beat him up in typical Paul fashion but the stuff passed the test. I want to try it out for mandarin and pipe conditioning.

So, I feed this stuff (I've tried all their different blends) and my fish don't really seem to care for it. They don't eat it with the same enthusiasm as Rod's.

By far the best frozen food I've ever fed is this stuff: http://blackjackreefcrack.com/home.htm

But that's hard to find outside of KC.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So, I feed this stuff (I've tried all their different blends) and my fish don't really seem to care for it. They don't eat it with the same enthusiasm as Rod's.

By far the best frozen food I've ever fed is this stuff: http://blackjackreefcrack.com/home.htm

But that's hard to find outside of KC.

thanks!

 

[Macdaddynick1]

Umm yes and no I think. Keeping in mind the fixture hes using was the industry standard probably producing 5 to 800 maybe 1000 par at the top of the water. depending on height. to leave about 100 par on the bottom.
Some some folks are lighting sps as 1500+ at the coral and are really successful. Most MH users in fact are running those levels, 6 to 1500 at the top.
"too much" is relative, and maybe a misnomer as it should be more than you actually need. Im sure youve read Danas "too much light" article.
The question I had for Mr Riddle while I was there at that talk was why does it seem for some coral this is not true, as ive also seen that as well. coral not growing under good water, but only responded to higher light intensies Over the 400 par mark. Unfortunately he was a bit nervous at the talk and Dr Bingman and he afterward took up his time on coral biology questions, till we literally all ran out of the room to the next talk.

If you look A Russ's My coral are bleaching thread he discusses it there, hes running extremely high Pars with what most folks consider low light animals, but balancing the nutrients well. I do similar but w lower light. My best Acro gets the same intensity as the Xenia in my tank. Its also an interesting observation as you speak to much older reefers who just put similar fixtures up and the stuff just grew. thus the frustration w led. its absolutely fascinating really. The corals actually do, use what they need, and then shut down.

What I really wanted to ask Dana was to come over to my friends house with a row 250w mh 10in over the coral and have him explain why he has such amazing growth. and what kind of beer he likes.

I think it would be cool if he added another variable like feeding or at least increasing no3 and Po4 into this experiment. May be that's the reason some corals can handle higher par.