No love for MH?

[Bpb]

Lordy. I’m very pro metal halide. I just like how they look on paper and in practice. But there is no debate. Yes. They’re hot. Yes they have the potential to heat the water. Your ambient air temperatures will absolutely influence how much of an impact it is at the end of the day.

Cool climate? Probably just replaces the wattage and work a heater would be putting in, Hot climate where your ac struggles to keep the house cool, and you’ll need to increase the evaporative cooling. It’s simple. Fans work for most practical applications. A chiller may be used in the most extreme ends of it. If your house routinely hangs out in the 80’s or warmer, you may need a chiller. Even with LEDs. Moreso with halides. If it’s in the upper 60’s low 70’s, fans or nothing may be enough.

There ARE discrete benefits and setbacks to every light source. What style of hobbyist you are will matter on which are most impactful for your life. Even those of us who are big metal halide lovers will have to eventually admit that high end acropora keeping is a minuscule percentage of the overall hobbyist population. So the real benefits of that light source may not really be that important to most people

 

[jda]

JDA what bulbs are you running

14k Phoenix on the DE stuff and 20k Radium on the SE. Everything is on m80. The 14k Phoenix do not put out as much heat as the 20k Radium do.

 

[biecacka]

What kind of fixture do you run them in. Any t5?
You corals look great.
I’m running the Hamilton 14k now (I think) but I’m switching back to the radium I believe.

Corey

 

[jda]

The SE stuff is in AquaMedic with their ReeFlux m80 cubes. The Radium are on a mixture of LumenMax and LumenBrite pendants also on ReeFlux m80s.

No T5s. No LEDs. I have no use for dusk/dawn, so I spend any extra energy and money on just more Halides.

 

[Bpb]

The SE stuff is in AquaMedic with their ReeFlux m80 cubes. The Radium are on a mixture of LumenMax and LumenBrite pendants also on ReeFlux m80s.

No T5s. No LEDs. I have no use for dusk/dawn, so I spend any extra energy and money on just more Halides.

Do you just prefer the blue look of the Phoenix and radions? Any history with some of the lower kelvin bulbs from hamilton or ushio?

 

[jda]

I don't find either all that blue. Crisp white with good pop. They are more like a 14k from Hamilton, Ushio or XM (may they Rest In Peace). Normal 20k bulbs are way too blue for me. I do use 10k Hamilton in the frag tank and even 6500k if I am landing some wild acros or clams.

 

[biecacka]

I tried those cheap bulbs from eBay in the past as well. Gave them a 6 month shot. I was told to order 20k for a 14k look. Bulbs were cheap but shipping was like $25-30 so didn’t end up saving as much as I thought originally. I never put a par meter on them but most said they were good for 6 months or so then they just replaced them. I think they only cost $6-10$ each. I mean it’s still cheap but not so much if you have to buy hem 2 times a year. I much rather prefer a Hamilton or radium and get 14+ months out of it.

Corey

 

[MnFish1]

I tried those cheap bulbs from eBay in the past as well. Gave them a 6 month shot. I was told to order 20k for a 14k look. Bulbs were cheap but shipping was like $25-30 so didn’t end up saving as much as I thought originally. I never put a par meter on them but most said they were good for 6 months or so then they just replaced them. I think they only cost $6-10$ each. I mean it’s still cheap but not so much if you have to buy hem 2 times a year. I much rather prefer a Hamilton or radium and get 14+ months out of it.

Corey

So curious - what are you saying - you didnt 'put a PAR meter to it' It would have meant something *(IMHO) it you had put a par meter to then - and then to the new buibs - since you didnt what is everyone supposed to surmise? IE 'what are those 'cheap' bulbs from EBAY'. ' ? There are lots of bulbs on ebay. Many people here in this thread recommend buying old fixtures on EBAY - do you disagree - and if so - why?

 

[MnFish1]

I tried those cheap bulbs from eBay in the past as well. Gave them a 6 month shot. I was told to order 20k for a 14k look. Bulbs were cheap but shipping was like $25-30 so didn’t end up saving as much as I thought originally. I never put a par meter on them but most said they were good for 6 months or so then they just replaced them. I think they only cost $6-10$ each. I mean it’s still cheap but not so much if you have to buy hem 2 times a year. I much rather prefer a Hamilton or radium and get 14+ months out of it.

Corey

BTW - why on earth would you have believed choose a 20K for a 14 K look - No offense this makes no sense - says nothing about sellers on ebay - and says a lot about your shopping preferences.

 

[naterealbig]

So curious - what are you saying - you didnt 'put a PAR meter to it' It would have meant something *(IMHO) it you had put a par meter to then - and then to the new buibs - since you didnt what is everyone supposed to surmise? IE 'what are those 'cheap' bulbs from EBAY'. ' ? There are lots of bulbs on ebay. Many people here in this thread recommend buying old fixtures on EBAY - do you disagree - and if so - why?

There is a big difference between trying to rifle through the myriad of untested bulbs with no history of longevity or efficacy - and choosing a used quality fixture from a reputable company, that a number of experienced hobbyists have used and specifically recommend.

 

[naterealbig]

BTW - why on earth would you have believed choose a 20K for a 14 K look - No offense this makes no sense - says nothing about sellers on ebay - and says a lot about your shopping preferences.

In Corey's post he specifically states that choosing a 20kk bulb for a 14kk look is what others recommended..... I certainly didn't garner from this post that he was making a blanket statement about sellers on eBay.

 

[naterealbig]

I tried those cheap bulbs from eBay in the past as well. Gave them a 6 month shot. I was told to order 20k for a 14k look. Bulbs were cheap but shipping was like $25-30 so didn’t end up saving as much as I thought originally. I never put a par meter on them but most said they were good for 6 months or so then they just replaced them. I think they only cost $6-10$ each. I mean it’s still cheap but not so much if you have to buy hem 2 times a year. I much rather prefer a Hamilton or radium and get 14+ months out of it.

Corey

Corey - I've had a similar experience with cheap bulbs on eBay. I have actually gone as far as emailing vendors to request spectral plots so I could analyze before I made a purchase. I have never gotten a response from any of these vendors. In fact, some were even rude in their response to my request.... For this reason, I stick to the names I know and trust.

 

[MTBake]

Where can I get m80 ballasts? Anyone have a preferred source?

I'm going to setup a second MH reflector and would like to try out a m80 ballast as I've never used one. Curious to see the difference for myself.

Edit:

Never mind. Hamilton sells them assembled in a housing. Good enough for me.

 

[MnFish1]

There is a big difference between trying to rifle through the myriad of untested bulbs with no history of longevity or efficacy - and choosing a used quality fixture from a reputable company, that a number of experienced hobbyists have used and specifically recommend.

You didnt answer the question - its ok - you didn't have a PAR meter? or something else - Just dont frame it as something it isn't. This is not designed to slam you. There is no such thing as a definition for a 'used quality fixture' Come on - thats like saying - I bought a used Toyota Camry because they have a great resale value. But ignores that fact that the car was in a flood.

 

[MnFish1]

Corey - I've had a similar experience with cheap bulbs on eBay. I have actually gone as far as emailing vendors to request spectral plots so I could analyze before I made a purchase. I have never gotten a response from any of these vendors. In fact, some were even rude in their response to my request.... For this reason, I stick to the names I know and trust.

I wonder why? Curious - do the ones you know and trust send you spectral plots? IMHO - you get what you pay for all the time , everytime.

 

[MnFish1]

In Corey's post he specifically states that choosing a 20kk bulb for a 14kk look is what others recommended..... I certainly didn't garner from this post that he was making a blanket statement about sellers on eBay.

Lol don't make a fight when there is none. He posted what he posted - I interpreted it that way In the way I interpreted it "I was told to order 20k for a 14k look." - makes me think - that the seller is selling something different that he was. If you disagree - great - But - the way it was written (to me ) makes no sense. It might just be me....

 

[naterealbig]

...

 

[DCR]

BTW - why on earth would you have believed choose a 20K for a 14 K look - No offense this makes no sense - says nothing about sellers on ebay - and says a lot about your shopping preferences.

From what I recall from the Tullio presentation, there is no objective standard for a 20K or a 14K light, and maybe even a 10K light. It is all just made up by the bulb manufacturer based on the visual appearance of the light. You should not expect that a 14K bulb from different manufacturers will look the same. Hence the statement that a 20K Radium on M80 looks more like a 14K Phoenix. The ballast selection also affects the appearance significantly.

 

[MnFish1]

From what I recall from the Tullio presentation, there is no objective standard for a 20K or a 14K light, and maybe even a 10K light. It is all just made up by the bulb manufacturer based on the visual appearance of the light. You should not expect that a 14K bulb from different manufacturers will look the same. Hence the statement that a 20K Radium on M80 looks more like a 14K Phoenix. The ballast selection also affects the appearance significantly.

Then - in that case - I feel sorry for those that are buying bulbs on the basis of this. I mean - appearance to one person may be completely different to another. Witness those that are green red color blind. Hopefully we aren't basing bulb specifications on what person A VS what person B says (or things) If so its all meaningless (IMHO)

 

[Bpb]

Then - in that case - I feel sorry for those that are buying bulbs on the basis of this. I mean - appearance to one person may be completely different to another. Witness those that are green red color blind. Hopefully we aren't basing bulb specifications on what person A VS what person B says (or things) If so its all meaningless (IMHO)

I kind of feel like that’s been common knowledge for a while now. Kelvin rating has become entirely subjective. Most led users think of solid royal blue as 20k. I’ve read enough accounts of people switching from LEDs to trying out metal halides and calling the 20k radium bulb too yellow. In the planted tank world the 6500k bulb is considered on the blue end. In the early days of reefing 10k was blue. Opinions change and there’s no real reference standard beyond the Incandescent bulb as 3000k if I’m not mistaken. The radium 20k looks nearly identical to the Phoenix 14k, which is about as blue as the reeflux 12k was. The ushio 14k looked about as yellow as my old xm10k’s. Every manufacturers kelvin rating is different. You just kind of learn what to expect from various options