No love for MH?

[naterealbig]

Yes.... yet even that is subject to lot to lot variation...
You would need the spectral plot of "the bulb" you are using vs the plot of "the bulb" you used in the past.

Sure, but is consistency not the point you made in your comment below? Are you saying that we are so skeptical of the data we have on tried and true halide bulbs from their manufactures that we are at the point we should test every bulb against a known standard?

As to MH's you SHOULD have to pay a premium (as w/ LEDs) as one gets ever more consistent one bulb vs another.

It is the reason why the savvy hobbyist shells out the extra $20-$40 bucks a year per bulb for the "big name bulbs". It's not necessarily a better bulb, but you can count on the exact same results time after time - which is why you have such a great number backing Radium, Ushio, Hamilton, etc - for literally decades. If we cannot rely on this data, then what can we rely on? Further, could yours and other's argument against the metal halide bulb for this very reason, not be also used in an argument against LED's?

But, yes close enough..

More specifically, it is certainly the best measure we have, and a measure well beyond the scope of your average hobbyist. Are we holding LED manufacturers to the same level of skepticism and scrutiny?

At this point, it seems that some folks here are reaching incredibly far into semantics to find fault with perhaps the most proven, trusted, and simple technologies that the hobby has ever experienced. This, more than anything else, completely baffles me.

 

[MnFish1]

41 percent of people are using or want to use halides. 25 percent of people will probably use them in the future. It’s on an upward slope my friend. And when you account for t5 I feel like your going to have a bit more people who own those two over leds.

Its not like I have an axe to grind. (Im just trying to discuss the poll - not which light is better).

The way the poll is written is not 'what kind of lighting are you using now' - it is "would you ever use metal halide lighting again?". Which means that the 60% of people who answered 'no' - have already used it - and have switched to LED (doesn't it?) Based on the numbers of reviews of fixtures on bulk reef supply the number of reviews for LED lighting systems are at least 10-20 to 1 (i.e. for every 1 MH fixture review - there are many many more LED reviews. I actually view the 2 systems as fairly equivalent besides personal preference

 

[RCS82]

Back many pages JDA hit the nail on the head talking about experienced reefers and the need to not participate in these forums and discussions. I feel the reviews on these retail websites are in the same line. My M/H set up is a reflector/light socket with a bulb in it, so simple yet it works amazing. I feel no need to leave a review about something that works so well and easy. And I'm not saying I'm in the experienced veteran category.

 

[A. grandis]

Its not like I have an axe to grind. (Im just trying to discuss the poll - not which light is better).

The way the poll is written is not 'what kind of lighting are you using now' - it is "would you ever use metal halide lighting again?". Which means that the 60% of people who answered 'no' - have already used it - and have switched to LED (doesn't it?) Based on the numbers of reviews of fixtures on bulk reef supply the number of reviews for LED lighting systems are at least 10-20 to 1 (i.e. for every 1 MH fixture review - there are many many more LED reviews. I actually view the 2 systems as fairly equivalent besides personal preference

Truth is that anything can happen with those pools, really.
I strongly believe that many people that never used halides could choose "no, I would not". Yes, they could.
Point is that people change their minds like many did and are now using halides. Those numbers were different 4 years ago.
I was actually surprised with the increased halide numbers to tell the truth!!! I'm so happy for those reefers!!!!
It's a matter of better results, as posted by many. Halides never needed high advertises, upgrades and hypes, like LEDs need.
Large coral farms had good deals with LEDs and changed. Their application is totally different than our home tanks. What a poor comparison.
There are those small scale farmers, actually reefers, that won't change their halides for anything! Why? they will tell you: better healthier and more colorful frags and colonies! Faster growth! Even their skeletons are stronger, because calcification is boosted, and more like those found in wild colonies. In many cases actual quality comes in small scale production. Reefing isn't different.
There is no need to defend purchase when acquiring a halide system. The results are facts and published by users.
Eventually people will understand better halides and/or T5s and it's huge advantages over LEDs for most home applications.
Another thing people need to understand is that the so called "new technology" is present in each type of light we are talking about. Dimmable halide and T5 ballasts are a very good example, improving performance and efficacy.
Is there anything about quality of light that halides and T5s have that LEDs don't? Yes, and that is the reason for the changes and most important, results (please refer to past posts in this thread!)
It was written here in this thread about the level of reefers and the way it affects on light choices for they reefs. That is so truth! And that comes accompanied to the fact that newbies comes in the hobby with LEDs as the only choice for their first reef due to the huge propaganda and "examples" at their LFSs. Just saying. They don't know better.
Are there people still grabbing the theory of electricity/ chiller/ etc... maybe, but they are starting to realize those money theories aren't true in many cases, specially in the long run. Besides, LED systems are huge expenses and they will need to be changed for one reason or other.
To me the most important aspect of reefing is to have the organisms we keep at their very best. My guide for that is the ocean. There is no light I would choose to resemble the sunlight other than a halide/t5 combo system IMO/E.
I'm not worried about those numbers at all. Everyone does what pleases them. I respect that.
What I liked is to read how happy those guys were with their halides and see the truth exposed simply.
It does come to personal preferences in the end, so that should be taken in consideration and should be respected too.
And all this is in regards to the pool in the long run.
Let's have a great weekend.

 

[A. grandis]

Back many pages JDA hit the nail on the head talking about experienced reefers and the need to not participate in these forums and discussions. I feel the reviews on these retail websites are in the same line. My M/H set up is a reflector/light socket with a bulb in it, so simple yet it works amazing. I feel no need to leave a review about something that works so well and easy. And I'm not saying I'm in the experienced veteran category.

Believe me, it's very hard to keep posting here over and over all this years.
Some in the LED market has been doing a great job to seriously try to diminishing halides and T5s for years.
Someone needs to speak up! Not fair!
It comes to preference to a certain point, but it's great when threads like this are available to newbies, so they learn and see others speaking for themselves. Hopefully manufacturers will also read some of this and realize how important halides are for many of us, therefore continuing their investments in even better fixtures, lamps and ballasts.
Unfortunately some times a harsh misunderstanding between the 2 sides of the coin emerges, but that is beginning to cease as people start to notice that halide users are just emphasizing their appreciation for them and not diminishing LEDs.
I'm glad there is no halide company trying to prove their product is better than any other other type of lamp. That shows how secure they are about their product.

 

[lancesmith1]

Halide gurus... I snagged a 24" G-Mann Infiniti on clearance from BRS. I have a 250 watt Hamilton electronic ballast that I used on a Cebu Sun a few years back. What would the 250 watt DE lamp recommendation be for a JBJ 45 Flat Panel (26 x 15 x 19) that is SPS dominant?

 

[pga7602]

Hi, what disco effect are you talking about, I never had that with my LED's, and what cheap plastic are you talking about, as my lights are German made using the best materials available, yes and those wonderful Iwaski 6500K bulbs were just beautiful, when they were the only good M/H bulbs you could buy at the time. I have been there nd done that, and in my opinion from using M/H, VHO, T5 bulbs to the new high end LED's, they all served a purpose, and all will still grow corals. It's just the idea, that to lot of people new to the market prefer LED lighting to get started with, and in my opinion that will be a mistake, unless they do a lot of research on how to program these lights to get the same amount of par and the correct color spectrum. LED lights are not the plug and play type lights M/H, T5, or VHO lights are, they take time and effort to get the correct parameters programmed into the lights, and once you figure out how to do this they are amazing lights, and will do anything and a lot more than a M/H light will do. So for the aquarist out there, it's a good thing M/H, and T5 lights are till there, as they are an alternative excellent way to light an aquarium, and grow happy corals.

May I ask which light led fixture you are using that is "German made"?

 

[Jay Norris]

May I ask which light led fixture you are using that is "German made"?

Hi, yes the German brand of LED's I use is the GHL Mitra LX7206 light. I prefer this light over the Radions, because the Mitra's use parabolic reflectors in the LX7206 systems compared to the light diffusers the new Radions are using, at an extra cost. Also the reflectors give a better, and more even spread of the light with out the Disco Ball effect so many aquarist complain about.

 

[oreo54]

Eventually people will understand better halides and/or T5s and it's huge advantages over LEDs for most home applications.

Unfortunately some times a harsh misunderstanding between the 2 sides of the coin emerges, but that is beginning to cease as people start to notice that halide users are just emphasizing their appreciation for them and not diminishing LEDs.

Ironically funny.............

 

[A. grandis]

Ironically funny.............

It's ironically funny only when you get those quotes out of the context to make your own point and try to bring someone else against me.

 

[jda]

Halide gurus... I snagged a 24" G-Mann Infiniti on clearance from BRS. I have a 250 watt Hamilton electronic ballast that I used on a Cebu Sun a few years back. What would the 250 watt DE lamp recommendation be for a JBJ 45 Flat Panel (26 x 15 x 19) that is SPS dominant?

IMO, 14k Phoenix is the best-of-breed DE 250w bulb. It can be run on an electronic ballast, but it was made for m80. It will have less output and be just a tad bit more blue on Electronic ballast - still a great solution and you could always move to a m80 on down the road.

Hamilton might have pigtails to use that Giesemann fixture without rewiring things... don't know for sure on this. The Giesemann should have a quick disconnect that you wire up for your scenario.

 

[A. grandis]

Here is the link for the pigtail from Hamilton:
https://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_113&product_id=205
Some ballasts will come with it and you just need to connect.

And this is how to wire the Spectra:

 

[oreo54]

And this is how to wire the Spectra:

hmm looks to be wired wrong..
Brown is "hot"
Blue is neutral IF it adheres to custom..
Brown..Black
Blue..White
assuming it doesn't crossover in back.. which would be stupid..

 

[jda]

I mentioned it on the thread where the guy posted it. However, with a bulb, it does not matter if the N and phase are reversed, so it works.

 

[A. grandis]

One more example of reality vs. graphics/drawings.
It's working here for more than a year and that's how everyone I know wires them...
Thanks anyways.

 

[A. grandis]

Always good to learn and teach the right way to do things. Thanks again Oreo and jda!
Tested and approved!

Have a great week!

 

[lancesmith1]

I just wired up an Infiniti and this was aligned with the instructions that came with the ballast. It works... I will have to say that I am impressed with the overall immersion and how fully this lights the tank. I ordered a Hamilton 20K and a Phoenix 14 K to try them both right out of the gate. The Hamilton is a nice crisp blue. The Phoenix is a little more white but it looks much more intense. I have an Apogee 510 coming tomorrow. I will post some PAR numbers on the Phoenix. That looks like what I will be going with. It is impressive. Also, I took the splash shields off the T5s. I have it at 10 inches AWL so I am not getting any splashing on the tubes. I was initially concerned about the heat because it went up quickly as soon as the halide came on. I just checked and it looks like it is going to be less than a 1.5 degree increase from 77 to 78.5 so I can more than live with that. If someone saw the same tank side by side lit with a XR30 G4 Radion and this they would absolutely freak out. The Radion colors pop a little more but from a coverage, intensity and more natural - realistic look this thing blows the Radion right out the door.

 

[lancesmith1]

 

[jda]

You are seeing what so many of us have seen.

Take measure in a few more weeks. You will get colors out of the Phoenix that you could not get out of the Radion. Even though the Radion might "pop" some corals a bit more, but increase in color elsewhere will dwarf it.

Simple fan can take care of most, if not all, of that heat.

 

[RCS82]

Lancesmith1, you have the HQI 20k hamilton to run plus the 14k Phoenix? Definitely interested in hearing how they compare.
Thanks