No love for MH?

[MnFish1]

The funny thing is that back in the day we already knew most of what has been posted here through books and articles in aquarium magazines.
We didn't have internet!
People think we are just trying to "make" halide looks better or something. The facts won't change, period.
If they knew we are helping the newbies to understand the facts, with actual results, they would thank us for all the precious time we spend here.

If you think halide and LED haven't changed since 'books' vs 'the internet' you are incorrect. The technology is totally different.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't get ramping either. I get the nighttime blue viewing, but you can do that without ramping.

Ramping is like thunderstorms, couch apps and lunar cycles to me... sounds good to me, but amounts to a hill of beans. Once you show your friends once or twice, I would just want it to work.

I don't think that there is any doubt that some of the best LED lit tanks are at 100% all day - Dr. Joshi, Therman, Adam, etc. Heard that WWC and vivid do this too, but they are vendors and have to run for longer than we do since they keep retail hours - not a good comparison.

Well - the next time you wake up - compare what happens in your back yard throughout the day. The sun is not always 'there' at the same 'radiation'.. Thats ramping. Its common sense. And this is to to be insulting. But its common sense. Ramping may also not mean anything - Just for what it's worth. But - that's what it is.

BTW - Edited - it was supposed to say - 'And this NOT to be insulting'

 

[RCS82]

Well - the next time you wake up - compare what happens in your back yard throughout the day. The sun is not always 'there' at the same 'radiation'.. Thats ramping. Its common sense. And this is to to be insulting. But its common sense. Ramping may also not mean anything - Just for what it's worth. But - that's what it is.

I have to ask then.
Do you run your lights to randomly drop intensity for a day or two to account for random cloudy days? Or do you have your lights programmed to follow the photo period of the south Pacific through the different seasons?

 

[biecacka]

I ran the ushio 10k 400watt bulb for awhile. Man was it bright!! But it grew some things no doubt. At the time I ran a single bulb on my 48/48/24 tank with a few Chinese led bars at about 18k. Mostly to lengthen my viewing pleasure but they didn’t do much when that 10k kicked on. Not a lot of crazy colors from the coral but a natural sunlight look to them.

Corey

 

[Jay Norris]

I don't get ramping either. I get the nighttime blue viewing, but you can do that without ramping.

Ramping is like thunderstorms, couch apps and lunar cycles to me... sounds good to me, but amounts to a hill of beans. Once you show your friends once or twice, I would just want it to work.

I don't think that there is any doubt that some of the best LED lit tanks are at 100% all day - Dr. Joshi, Therman, Adam, etc. Heard that WWC and vivid do this too, but they are vendors and have to run for longer than we do since they keep retail hours - not a good comparison.

Hi, I also use to only use M/H, T5, or VHO combo's for 30 or so yrs., and it is quit the shock to have your artificial sun come on all at once, even if you ramp up or down using 2 T5 or VHO lamps. Could you imagine waking up every morning, going from complete dark to a mid day sun coming up in less then a second. I get it you are a die hard M/H aquarist, as I was one for a very long time, but as the LED technology caught up to the old but proven technology of M/H lighting I decided to switch over to LED lighting. It does take a little time to figure out how to use this new technology, and their are only one or two fixtures that I would use to replace my old lighting, that would give me the same growth and color my old lighting system did. The trouble with a lot of people who buy LED fixtures is, they don't take the time to learn how to use these light fixtures, as they are not as easy to use as the old plug and play systems we are use to. Thus all the people who have very little, to no success with their new LED fixtures, give the LED lighting systems a bad name. As for the price of LED fixtures you get what you pay for, and I don't mean the ability to ramp up, or down, the ability to have Thunderstorms, or cloudy days, plus all the other things these lights can due.

 

[Jay Norris]

I have to ask then.
Do you run your lights to randomly drop intensity for a day or two to account for random cloudy days? Or do you have your lights programmed to follow the photo period of the south Pacific through the different seasons?

Hi, I run my lights as close to the South Pacific light schedule as possible, and my lights also have a program for cloudy days to.

 

[Bpb]

I don’t know halides have their own kind of natural ramp up over a few minutes. Every bulb I’ve ever owned anyway

 

[Jay Norris]

I don’t know halides have their own kind of natural ramp up over a few minutes. Every bulb I’ve ever owned anyway

More like a minute at the most, but not much of a ramp, or down.

 

[jda]

It is the non-sequitur nature of the argument that I do not understand... wanting to be as natural as possible with ramping and thunderstorms and lunar cycles, yet also choosing the most unnatural type of lighting as far as spectrum and how the photons enter the tank.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

It is the non-sequitur nature of the argument that I do not understand... wanting to be as natural as possible with ramping and thunderstorms and lunar cycles, yet also choosing the most unnatural type of lighting as far as spectrum and how the photons enter the tank.

I have to agree on this! What the hobby needs is plug and play to prevent most of the problems we see with people trying to "tune" their lights. Let's face it Corals don't wear polyester suits and booggy wooggy all night long anyway lol. Not sure ramping does anything for the Corals. Most of the light systems we ran in the old days was just on and off timers but the HID did some ramp up on starting cycle.

 

[alton]

Reefbrite ballast are 0-10 volt dimming. I had my LED’s on first, Center MH lamp next, then remaining two MH lamp. Shut down was in reverse order

 

[oreo54]

It is the non-sequitur nature of the argument that I do not understand... wanting to be as natural as possible with ramping and thunderstorms and lunar cycles, yet also choosing the most unnatural type of lighting as far as spectrum and how the photons enter the tank.

That is incorrect really.. suns rays are collimated perp. to the earth Well at whatever angle the sun is..
Point is they are ALL parallel w/ scatter .. sometimes none..well a lot less (cloudless.. HARSH shadows) sometimes all (cloudy, soft shadows)


LED's are more "natural" than halides or more unnatural tubes..
LEDs mostly cloudless ...mh.. partly cloudy...Tubes.. cloudy..
ROUGHLY..don't nit pick..

As to spectrum that is also incorrect as I've shown in dozens of "pretty charts"..

NONE are natural.. and is just a matter of degrees... Adding ramping is a plus and, frankly, mostly cosmetic (barring spooking fish) BUT one that some PREFER by CHOICE..
Nothing wrong w/ that ..

PRETTY graphic for the day

It is EASIER to make LED's as Natural as you want..
tight optics.. so narrow beams up high (parallel rays) precession from horizon to horizon angle (easy-er to do w/ LEDs due to weight /design) that almost NOBODY does..
would need some sort of controlled diffusion (controlled lenses shifting from tight to wide beam 5-26% "scatter")to make it perfect though.


IS it "necessary"?? not really but don't say MH's are more "natural" in presentation than LEDs.. just not so except at a VERY specific moment in time and conditions..

sorry just is AFAICT.

 

[oreo54]

Spectrum wise MH's are a one trick pony.. A GOOD trick but one trick.
That's why people add tubes and LEDs to them...
Is it necessary???

choose..

 

[MnFish1]

I have to ask then.
Do you run your lights to randomly drop intensity for a day or two to account for random cloudy days? Or do you have your lights programmed to follow the photo period of the south Pacific through the different seasons?

Yes - and they are set for storms/clouds - I however think the lightning does not help. so thats off - but definitely clouds.

 

[MnFish1]

I have to agree on this! What the hobby needs is plug and play to prevent most of the problems we see with people trying to "tune" their lights. Let's face it Corals don't wear polyester suits and booggy wooggy all night long anyway lol. Not sure ramping does anything for the Corals. Most of the light systems we ran in the old days was just on and off timers but the HID did some ramp up on starting cycle.

You may be correct - but the converse argument that MH is 'more natural - like the sun' is also kind of 'out there' as well... IMO

 

[biecacka]

I ran the old rapid led kits that was a mimic of the radion a few years ago. Didn’t even last a year, because I tinkered too much. I’m NOT saying leds do t work I’m saying I tinkered too much and didn’t have good results so I switched back. I have considered giving them another try. I looked into the Orpheks as my first choice because I like the fact they are spread out more and a panel type. But they don’t have the greatest stateside assistance I hear. I also looked at reefbreeders for similar reasons and like the fact Logan is local and very helpful. I just say i like the Mitras too but don’t know anyone personally in my area using them. A few fellow reefers are using the radions and like them as well. I love the fact the kessils are somewhat idiot proof but don’t like the fact hey don’t produce much par in comparison.
If I ever switched it would most likely be to the reefbreeders or orpheks mostly because I could get away with 2 units and avoid some of the heavy upfront costs. Dropping 3k on leds is a whole lot of halide bulbs I can buy!!!
I think Jay stated a great fact and it’s one I’ve said for years, the biggest issue with leds isn’t so much their ability to grow anything. It’s our ability to constantly change them and mess stuff up. We do them a disservice for the most part.

Corey

 

[RCS82]

Yes and I agree,
I like the ramping and cloudy settings and the things you can do with LEDs, but is it all mandatory or even necessary?

 

[topjimmy]

I think what people mean by mh being more natural is that it is a blended point light source, like the sun. Leds are single spectrum point light sources that can blend to a degree. Adding the diffuser seems to help out but then are you not just emulating a tube source?

 

[mbmax]

I have used every type of light in all my years of reefing and they all worked for me.
I made the decision to used t5 / led in one tank (sps) and just led in the other for a few reasons ,
I am no longer have to use a chiller as with MH, second a much lower electric bill and finally the ability to adjust the light to my preference and corals and fish look same or better as with MH.
I used MH and they worked but I don't see a reason to go back.

 

[oreo54]

I think what people mean by mh being more natural is that it is a blended point light source, like the sun. Leds are single spectrum point light sources that can blend to a degree. Adding the diffuser seems to help out but then are you not just emulating a tube source?

artificial constraint due to TECHNICAL limitations.. i.e what manf. give you..
this LED (not a recommendation JUST an example ) it technically equal or better, and at worst not much less 1)blended and 2) less spiky than any 6500k MH..
violet "pump" w/ RGB phosphors added..IF one could convince a manuf it was WORTH their time to "up" the blue phosphor level you'd have any K you would want ..and in one package.
https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articl...lor-packaged-leds-lights-japanese-fa-ade.html