No love for MH?

[MnFish1]

It is not a dying breed. Numbers are going up (along with T5s)... Hamilton is constantly sold out of stuff since demand over the last few years has been more than they have expected. A big retailer said at MACNA that AquaticLife Hybrid units are outselling all of the big-three LEDs combined - he did not say what those are, but Kessil, AI and EcoTech are probably them.

Of the 20 folks that are the best reefers around me in Colorado, 16 or 17 of them use MH in some capacity and none of the rest of them use LED alone and really only for supplement - 20 out of 20 relying on MH or T5 for the heavy lifting. About half of them went all-LED in the boom and are now back. We do live in Colorado and any heat is a blessing - not that heat is hard to solve if you want to, but it can be more of a problem in some climates.

Most of the MH people are sick of fighting with the front runners and noobies and just do not post too much... the fight is just not worth it to most. I do not mind fighting, but I do get sick of the people who have no idea what they are talking about telling me that I am stupid... only for them to not be in the hobby a year or two later. I think that their posts are just lower since the leading edge drive the forums.

You can tell that MH usage is on the upswing since I cannot get m80 ballasts for $20 anymore nor good reflectors and fixtures for pennies on the dollar... you have to pay a reasonable price for used MH gear now. It has been like this for a few years.

The question is do most people use their LEDs the way people use metal halides. I think the average par in a mh tank is far higher than a led tank. I know all the discussion about the par of led vs mh. But question. Do mh tanks run at a higher temp on average than led? If so that could cause a difference. Etc etc. I would go back to leds if I liked the light temperature etc but I guess I’m not sure what the magic is. Light is light. You can set leds to match the sun also

 

[MnFish1]

20+ years of successful tanks, 18 with halides. Nothing was better than the look of 10k with VHO actinics, have to settle for T-5 supplement now. Tried Radions but didn’t like the look and the fiddling.

LED’s can produce some crazy colors lighting up those flourescent proteins, something I think you would have a hard time finding in the wild under the good ol sun. I personally want my reef to look like a reef

John

Then set the led to look like a reef/sun. It’s certainly possible I agree with you the blue to me is just too much. But look at the people on here saying I run my leds for 5 hours at 30%

 

[cracker]

I can remember when LED was new & untested technology.

 

[Heath Biggers]

250w radium 20k’s are the best

 

[gfox]

I loved the halides but not the heat that came with them.Been using LEDS since.

 

[Sleepydoc]

I think that everybody needs to come to grips with the possibility that LEDs are not changing anymore, or at least have not for a while. There has not been a significant change since going from blue-white to multi-colored diodes on more channels. I am not counting the human comforts like apps and wifi that are just window dressing. The only recent changes are just more and different multicolored diodes. Seriously, how are LED evolving and going to get better? There are still panels and pucks, both with gripes and irritations. There are no reflectors for better spread or color blending.

In the same amount of time, there has been new dual-arc MH bulbs for both growing (whiter) and viewing (bluer), redesigned bulbs by both Hamilton and Giesemann that cuts down on the useless parts of IR and some ballasts that waste nearly no energy. These are real improvements and renewed energy in this space... and it is all just for this hobby. If companies are willing to invest like this, then I would not worry about these going away any time soon. Heck, people have been promising the death of T12 VHOs for a decade, but UVL is still in business making bulbs.

Fun fact that I learned the hard way... I put a LED light bulb in my garage door opener. It would open, but never shut while the light was on. Went to Google and there is something in LED bulbs that messes with signal reception with rolling-code garage door openers unless you are SUPER close. If anybody has this problem, put a CFL or normal bulb back in there. This drove us crazy for a few months until I figured it out. Of course, this has nothing to do with LEDs, just a wierd cooincidence of tech messing with each other.

LEDs (and CFLs for that matter) have a power supply built into the bulb that can emit RF noise that interferes with the remote control receiver. We had some LED deck lights that caused problems and they were minimum 25 feet away on the other side of the house. Incandescents are guaranteed to be safe but if you want to use an LED, get a good brand name one and check to see that it's FCC compliant not to emit RF interference. Incandescent bulbs are technologically pretty simple. With LEDs you have not only the LED itself, but the power supply, so there are a lot more variables and a lot more places for manufacturers to skimp.

As far as the evolution of LEDs goes, there is still some development going on with UV spectrum as well as efficiency and multi LED chips, etc. The ability to individually control color channels with LEDs is a double edged sword. With MH, you pick your bulb and turn it on and that's what you get. With LEDs there are more variables, which you can change how things look but also potentially less effective. I suspect that with more experience, manufacturers will develop combinations/relative channel intensities that are more consistent, removing the guesswork that has likely hampered some people.

 

[Black Pearl]

Love my Giesemann Spectra

 

[Richards_reef]

In my reefing career I started with kessil for 3 years over a 150 gallon, I didn't have much growth and had trouble keeping half of my corals happy.

Later I got a frag tank and put a 2x24w bulb t5 over it, the corals exploded with growth and I could actually keep sps.

Next I took the 150 down and added the 4 kessil a360s over a 75 gallon for 6 months, again half the corals went down hill, After 6 months I replaced the kessil with a 4 bulb TEK fixture, and the corals exploded with growth again.

Now I have waterbox 230 with a 3x250 metal halide with 14k phoenix bulbs (I also have 8 t5s in the same fixture but dont use them) and the corals are growing even faster than when they were in the 75 gallon. I will be ordering ballasts for the t5s later this year and utilizing them once I have more nutrients in the tank (currently running fallow).

4 kessil with all the accessories cost me around $2000. The used halide fixture cost me $50 without ballasts or glass shield, it did however have all new bulbs. The halide ballasts cost me $20 bucks a piece, the t5 balasts will cost me $55 each, and the tempered glass cost me 80, then I just needed wall hangers for the fixture that cost me $30. So all in all I have a light that works for $440 rather than a light that doesn't work for $2000. (My used TEK fixture cost me 200 with new bulbs.)

With the halides my water temperate rarely fluctuates more than 3 degrees. with the leds my aquarium heaters were running 24/7. In the summer my ac does a bit more work with the MH but to me its worth it, Ive also noticed its been offset during the winter months as our heater doesn't run hardly at all (I live in phoenix).

I love both t5 and MH, I dont think I will be able to trust LEDs again any time soon, especially with how ungodly expensive they are, unless cree comes out with a high kelvin cob like their cxb series (cxb-3070 5000k rocks for growing macro algae).

On a side note, I dont know if it is relative, but my tanks with t5 and mh have had much higher PH than when I ran LEDs (again I dont know if the lighting is the reason).​

 

[Coral Keeper]

2 x 250 watt Radium with 4 x T-5s over 120 gallon all the way.. not a big fan of LEDs..

 

[NickC]

I was being pushed really hard by a few friends to build some LED’s for my tank 10 or 12yrs ago when they first started getting used. I kept my halides, and my friends had nothing but trouble. Same deal with my local lfs. I got out of the hobby 6 or 8yrs ago, and was willing to consider LED’s for my new tank, but even though more people seem to have success with them a lot seem to have the same problems I remember.

I stuck a couple halides over the new tank, along with a couple lumilite LED’s for supplementation. I can’t stand the LED strips, and my wife has even said she doesn’t like them. Eventually they’ll get replaced with t5’s. The radiums, however, look awesome. Just how I remember them. You can’t beat the simplicity, and they work great.

One thing to consider if you’re thinking about halides but are worried about bulb and electricity expense is the cost of the actual fixture. The LED fixtures were going to cost me $2400. I had the halides in storage, but two 250w setups would be around $650 new with bulbs. Electricity difference between the two was negligible, approx 50w. I can buy a heck of a lot of radium bulbs for $1750.

*edited because apparently I suck at math

 

[kles]

U use led t5 and MH over my tanks not a led fan but like the sun up n set but nothing more natural looking than mh tank dose do much better with them growth color . Used mh years ago bought into the whole led thing dont care for them or there price tag . I live in Texas and even during the summer the chiller only kicks on a hour a day at end of the mh light cycle even with 3 250w mh running 5 hours a day .

 

[Lousybreed]

It is not a dying breed. Numbers are going up (along with T5s)... Hamilton is constantly sold out of stuff since demand over the last few years has been more than they have expected. A big retailer said at MACNA that AquaticLife Hybrid units are outselling all of the big-three LEDs combined - he did not say what those are, but Kessil, AI and EcoTech are probably them.

Of the 20 folks that are the best reefers around me in Colorado, 16 or 17 of them use MH in some capacity and none of the rest of them use LED alone and really only for supplement - 20 out of 20 relying on MH or T5 for the heavy lifting. About half of them went all-LED in the boom and are now back. We do live in Colorado and any heat is a blessing - not that heat is hard to solve if you want to, but it can be more of a problem in some climates.

Most of the MH people are sick of fighting with the front runners and noobies and just do not post too much... the fight is just not worth it to most. I do not mind fighting, but I do get sick of the people who have no idea what they are talking about telling me that I am stupid... only for them to not be in the hobby a year or two later. I think that their posts are just lower since the leading edge drive the forums.

You can tell that MH usage is on the upswing since I cannot get m80 ballasts for $20 anymore nor good reflectors and fixtures for pennies on the dollar... you have to pay a reasonable price for used MH gear now. It has been like this for a few years.

What Jda said times two! I have two 250w radiums driven at 300w, 4 T-5’s and two reefbrite XHO strips over my 250. It’s 5’ long and the two halides cover it perfectly. People talk about energy efficiency, I am not convinced that a MH and T-5 hybrid is that energy inefficient. I live in WI and I too welcome the heat of the halides!

 

[Lousybreed]

I was being pushed really hard by a few friends to build some LED’s for my tank 10 or 12yrs ago when they first started getting used. I kept my halides, and my friends had nothing but trouble. Same deal with my local lfs. I got out of the hobby 6 or 8yrs ago, and was willing to consider LED’s for my new tank, but even though more people seem to have success with them a lot seem to have the same problems I remember.

I stuck a couple halides over the new tank, along with a couple lumilite LED’s for supplementation. I can’t stand the LED strips, and my wife has even said she doesn’t like them. Eventually they’ll get replaced with t5’s. The radiums, however, look awesome. Just how I remember them. You can’t beat the simplicity, and they work great.

One thing to consider if you’re thinking about halides but are worried about bulb and electricity expense is the cost of the actual fixture. The LED fixtures were going to cost me $2400. I had the halides in storage, but two 250w setups would be around $650 new with bulbs. Electricity difference between the two was negligible, approx 50w. I can buy a heck of a lot of radium bulbs for $1750.

*edited because apparently I suck at math

Let’s factor in a life cycle of 4 years for LED’s too. The really expensive LED with “pro” the name tends to have failures around 2-3 years. My buddy just replaced his pro at 3 years. Halide ballasts last. And the new research is showing on a good electronic ballast radiums last 18-24 months until they need replacing. LED’s are ridiculously overpriced MARKETING HYPE!

 

[Lousybreed]

I enjoy comparing reef lights to cars
Halides are like your muscle car. Old, reliable, powerful, but also lager and cumbersome with a lot of energy waste.
T5s are like your 80s-90s street racers. Slick, good handling and user feedback, simple to customize but still hot and inefficient. (These two will require periodic matinnence and "tune ups")
Leds are the newcomer, electric cars, they definitely have potential and have unparalleled tech but the actual results can still be disputed against the established champions.

Per lumen T-5 are just as efficient as LED and halides powered with an electronic ballast are not far behind.

 

[biecacka]

I love my halides!! No t5 or led supplements. All halide all day

Corey

 

[Reefcowboy]

That doesn’t surprise me at all. Most folks new to the hobby within the last five years probably use LED.

I agree with the above post. mH’s are for those that are more experienced with the hobby, and have been in it for longer, in most cases. Newer hobbyists would not have been as exposed to MH’s as they arent really available at stores anymore. Not by any means saying newer hobbyists or led users cant be as successful, but many users of the old technology know what to expect and dial that type of light to success.

 

[NickC]

I agree with the above post. mH’s are for those that are more experienced with the hobby, and have been in it for longer, in most cases. Newer hobbyists would not have been as exposed to MH’s as they arent really available at stores anymore. Not by any means saying newer hobbyists or led users cant be as successful, but many users of the old technology know what to expect and dial that type of light to success.

I think it’s kind of unfortunate, really. Halides are probably the most forgiving light for the beginner.

 

[Sleepydoc]

What Jda said times two! I have two 250w radiums driven at 300w, 4 T-5’s and two reefbrite XHO strips over my 250. It’s 5’ long and the two halides cover it perfectly. People talk about energy efficiency, I am not convinced that a MH and T-5 hybrid is that energy inefficient. I live in WI and I too welcome the heat of the halides!

When comparing lumens per watt, T5's are close to LEDs. No idea about MH's, but one difference between the 3 as far as the tank is concerned is where the energy is lost and radiated. With T5s and MH's, there's a fair amount of infrared radiation directed towards the tank. With LEDs, the energy loss is typically with the LED driver that's on the back side of the fixture meaning much less direct heating of the water. Whether that is significant for you or not depends on your situation.

 

[Reefinny Verified Sponsor]

I run Halides! I love them. I will not go back. Of my 3 tanks all 3 now have Halides. They are all SPS heavy and I have NEVER had the colors and growth I am having now. (5 year system) Heat - I have a chiller. Electric bill - I have done other things to offset some of my power consumption. Switched my return pump from a Hammerhead to a Red Dragon, Down sized my massive calcium reactor that ran a dart 24-7 to a still large unit that runs a DC pump. Yes the electric bill is high but who said this is a cheap hobby anyway?

When I switched over the main DT to Halides - my wife walked by the tank and said - wow what did you do to the tank - I love how it looks. Good enough excuse for me!

I run the Reefbrite 250W on 2 tanks and 400W on the third. One tank I use the twin arc 10/20 bulbs and 2 tanks I am running straight radiums.

I am going to be changing up the downstairs (build thread coming) and will be running 4 halides on one tank and a 8 bulb t5 on the other. The ONLY LED I will run is supplemental.

 

[Firemanreefkeeper]

I'd love to try MH but.......... my wife already hates my tank and says I spend too much money on it. Halides would require a chiller for me since I'm in Florida. T5 with some LEDS it is.