No love for MH?

[Bronx19]

$400? Where is that coming from? This is what I got. So you need a fixture and a bulb. If you do two radions you need two fixtures.

Those are systems, the Cayman reflector is $159 and a bulb is $45-$59. I didn't include a ballast for the MH as I didn't include a mount arm or diffuser for the LED.

 

[X-37B]

I buy once every few years when they're on special, in my case I buy Phoenix 14k $45/piece.

I do the same, lol.
I have a good stash of them and buy them every now and then too.

 

[Bronx19]

Why are you using one of the most expensive fixtures out there? You can get 165W Led Black boxes for $100 each. Here's a less biased "math"

2x250 Hamilton Halide Fixtures : $329 each = 658$ 250W Hamilton Fixtures <- From Hamilton's Website
2x250 Hamilton Bulbs: $59 each = 118$ Any Hamilton Bulb <- From Hamilton's Website

Note these come with magnetic ballasts, the least efficient ballasts out there. Grand total of $776

2x165 Black Box LEDs: $85 each = 170$ 165W Full Spectrum LEDs <- Amazon
Are these LEDS the best of the best? Nope, but they work just fine. Grand total of 170. Or 600$ less the first year.

I love halides, I love Hamilton fixtures (I have the 6 bulb T5 fixture over my main tank). The money isn't even remotely close. The power usage isn't even close. You can spend 300 per fixture and still come out way ahead. Halides are still good - but lets not pretend they are anything near the electrical usage of LEDS.

Because I'm comparing the best with the best. Of course you can buy black box and save a fortune, I've done that, but there is no comparing the results. No one is pretending the electrical usage is the same, I did the numbers correctly. Its 180W against 500W. Or, as you put it, 165W.

$0.24/Day with your BB, $0.72/Day with MH. You save $175/Year in power.

 

[Bpb]

Why don’t we just use the sun, like have your tank in the wall or something where sunlight breaches or outside? I guess the outdoor temperature would be an issue among other things but if it’s about the best quality of light why do we try to bring it indoors instead of try to develop tanks outdoors?

I’d wager most people don’t have the budget or inclination to run solatubes or modify their home infrastructure to accommodate such a task. If I could I’d prefer a sunlit tank absolutely.

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

The lumen bright minis are out of stock. I have been trying to get 4 more just to have.
They run $150.
M80 ballast $150
Bulb $60-$70.
$360 for 1.

Well if we compare radians we should compare top of the line halide systems.

So for a 6 foot tank, you only need 3 xr30 and one 6ft halide kit per my knowledge of LED’s and Hamilton’s website listed these for 6 foot tanks. Let’s say you did 6 xr30’s just because.

3x radion xr30 G5 ~$2,520
Or
6x radios xr30 G5 ~$5,040
1x 6 foot halide kit ~$1,369 (+$300 for premium equipment)

Radion~ 570 watts or 1,140 watts
Halide~ 1,520 watts

0.57kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$0.5472/day
Or
1.14kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$1.0944/day
1.52kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$1.4592/day

$199.728/year
Or
$399.456/year
$532.608/year

Mounting XR30’s~
2 Tracks $210
6 track brackets for each light $126
2 arm sets for tracks $265
=
$601

With the halides you must replace-

• Ballast: 3-400w Magnetic M59 (Electronic available for an upgrade cost)
• T5 HO Bulbs: 2x 80 watt T5 HO 460nm royal blue & HO 2x 80 watt T5 HO 420nm actinic bulbs

Thats $207 in MH and $136 in T5’s, ($343)Per year.

I made an excel sheet to show which is the lowest cost overall per year. As you can see 3 Radions is best after 3 years. However that may be too low light, then at 9 years, the 6 radions are more for your money than the halides. So the best thing to do here is pay the upfront for the radions, then at the end of year 8 buy 3 more, second lighting mount etc. about that time you should be able to keep the high PAR corals so it makes sense lmaooo this way you make the most of your money.

The only instance you should buy Halides is if you are going to use them 8 years or less, which actually makes sense. Plus the differences in quality of light, resell value, etc etc are not included here... which I’m hearing halide is better, so if you plan to change or alter your lighting in the next 8 years, get Halides, not LED’s.

I think I’m gonna switch to halides thats crazy. I don’t think I’m gonna go 8 years without upgrading my lights. There are almost better options coming out so it doesn’t make sense to buy LED’s unless you’re going to use them for a decade. Or if you were doing a softy LPS tank you could do LED but even then there are smaller halide/T5 options... the only difference as I stated is the resell value of LED’s is very very high. I sold my used LED’s for $50 less than what I paid, so that initial cost is actually a lot less than what it says if you resell. The other factor is the growth rate difference of halides, how much money you bring in/save from that.

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

I’d wager most people don’t have the budget or inclination to run solatubes or modify their home infrastructure to accommodate such a task. If I could I’d prefer a sunlit tank absolutely.

Yeah lol I don’t think it’s financially possible but it would be awesome

 

[Bronx19]

The real kicker with LED is the upgrade itch. We all know what reefers are like. There is a new Radion ever 4 year cycle, anyone care to guess the % of reefers that upgrade their LED lights before 8 years?

 

[kenchilada]

The real kicker with LED is the upgrade itch. We all know what reefers are like. There is a new Radion ever 4 year cycle, anyone care to guess the % of reefers that upgrade their LED lights before 8 years?

I’ve seen several of my friends throw out their Radions to upgrade as soon as the new version dropped. It’s insane. For many (most?) the hobby is about chasing the cool equipment of the day. I wonder sometimes if YouTube didn’t exist would halides still be king. I guess I am just getting old.

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

The real kicker with LED is the upgrade itch. We all know what reefers are like. There is a new Radion ever 4 year cycle, anyone care to guess the % of reefers that upgrade their LED lights before 8 years?

Yeah honestly lol I’m sticking with wht I have they are expensive and everyone’s crazy over the new gen but honestly idrc I think it’s overhyped lol. The only thing is ur tank, if I was doing a DT or something might change or tear down within 8 years, but a frag tank (current situation) I’m gonna have for a long time so it makes sense if I used it for longer than 8 years to use LED’s. Unless the growth rate is enough to eat the difference and the resell value.

I’m sure the 8 year rule varies depending on what two brands/equipment you are using but a general idea I think is less than 8 years of use -> halides more than ->LED’s

Again resell of LED’s and growth of corals do play a large role here thats hard to calculate.

 

[X-37B]

Well if we compare radians we should compare top of the line halide systems.

So for a 6 foot tank, you only need 3 xr30 and one 6ft halide kit per my knowledge of LED’s and Hamilton’s website listed these for 6 foot tanks. Let’s say you did 6 xr30’s just because.

3x radion xr30 G5 ~$2,520
Or
6x radios xr30 G5 ~$5,040
1x 6 foot halide kit ~$1,369 (+$300 for premium equipment)

Radion~ 570 watts or 1,140 watts
Halide~ 1,520 watts

0.57kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$0.5472/day
Or
1.14kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$1.0944/day
1.52kWh x 8 hrs x $0.12 ~$1.4592/day

$199.728/year
Or
$399.456/year
$532.608/year

Mounting XR30’s~
2 Tracks $210
6 track brackets for each light $126
2 arm sets for tracks $265
=
$601

With the halides you must replace-

• Ballast: 3-400w Magnetic M59 (Electronic available for an upgrade cost)
• T5 HO Bulbs: 2x 80 watt T5 HO 460nm royal blue & HO 2x 80 watt T5 HO 420nm actinic bulbs

Thats $207 in MH and $136 in T5’s, ($343)Per year.

I made an excel sheet to show which is the lowest cost overall per year. As you can see 3 Radions is best after 3 years. However that may be too low light, then at 9 years, the 6 radions are more for your money than the halides. So the best thing to do here is pay the upfront for the radions, then at the end of year 8 buy 3 more, second lighting mount etc. about that time you should be able to keep the high PAR corals so it makes sense lmaooo this way you make the most of your money.

The only instance you should buy Halides is if you are going to use them up to year 8 and not another year, which actually makes sense. Plus the differences in quality of light etc etc are not included here. Or if you are doing a low PAR tank you won’t need those big halides you could go smaller. I think I’m gonna switch to halides thats crazy

Nothing personel but how long have you been in the hobby? I have been in this hobby since the late 80's.
Also not sure why this was posted to me.
You are way over thinking it bud.
250 watt de on m80 ballasts have close to the same par levels as a 400 mogal.
Anyway I will run mine and you run what you want.
Like I said before I have run all of them and they all work.
If you are worried about a few dollars your in the wrong hobby.
Run what you want and post a build thread and I will follow.
Peace brother.

 

[Bpb]

That's a bit melodramatic....

I have run MH, t8s, and leds. They are all different. MH looks the best, but absolutely puts out a ton of heat and burns through electricity. I live in Arizona now and would not even consider MH. When I lived on the east coast, I found the heat/evaporation from the MH added to the humidity and made my home even more muggy.

That’s what did it for me. The humidity. It was just too much to handle. Temps were easily maintained with fans for a long time. But over the years I just started seeing rust on everything inside. Began measuring humidity and the house was consistently reading in the 80% or more. Even more humid than outside here in Texas. Evaporating 2+ gallons per day in a 1400 sqft house just begins to take its toll. Mold in all the windows. Constantly a damp feeling everywhere.

Tolerated it for a while. But then the ac went out. Had to turn the lights off entirely for a week. At that point I begrudgingly switched out to leds. It’s been about a net zero result. Some things genuinely perked up and grow faster with better color and shape. Some things are worse. The look is pretty close from an aesthetic stance.

Loved halides. Still do. If I lived in a cool dry climate I’d still use them. Don’t hesitate to recommend them to people who can manage them. Just wasn’t worth the literal damage it was causing my house. My electric bill is about $100 less a month. Purely a numbers thing. That wasn’t and still isn’t a deal breaker. Just felt the need to mention.

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

Nothing personel but how long have you been in the hobby? I have been in this hobby since the late 80's.
Also not sure why this was posted to me.
You are way over thinking it bud.
250 watt de on m80 ballasts have close to the same par levels as a 400 mogal.
Anyway I will run mine and you run what you want.
Like I said before I have run all of them and they all work.
If you are worried about a few dollars your in the wrong hobby.
Run what you want and post a build thread and I will follow.
Peace brother.

My bad no trying to directly tag u, I put in there it makes sense to do halides in the short term versus the long term LED’s will save you more money. That’s excluding growth rates of corals and resell of equipment. Almost makes me wanna use halides because I’m sure in under 8 years I will upgrade/change lights. Doing the math you guys hve convinced me to use halides lol

If you actually would have read it you’d see I’m siding with halides because who doesn’t change or upgrade lights after 8 years? Asking my how long I’ve been in the hobby is kinda rude man... especially when you didn’t read my post you would’ve seen I’m agreeing with you on both cost and lighting quality.

 

[X-37B]

I’ve seen several of my friends throw out their Radions to upgrade as soon as the new version dropped. It’s insane. For many (most?) the hobby is about chasing the cool equipment of the day. I wonder sometimes if YouTube didn’t exist would halides still be king. I guess I am just getting old.

Halides are still king, but you have to try them to understand.

 

[X-37B]

My bad no trying to directly tag u, I put in there it makes sense to do halides in the short term versus the long term LED’s will save you more money. That’s excluding growth rates of corals and resell of equipment. Almost makes me wanna use halides because I’m sure in under 8 years I will upgrade/change lights. Doing the math you guys hve convinced me to use halides lol

u should read it it’s actually crazy, who doesn’t change or upgrade lights after 8 years? Halides make more sense tbh

Its all good. Check out craigslist for local reefers. A good system can be picked up for nothing if money is tights, been their myself.
Ebay has some too.
Here is one as an example.

IceCap 250 Watt Metal Halide MH Ballast with fixture | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for IceCap 250 Watt Metal Halide MH Ballast with fixture at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

Its all good. Check out craigs list for local reefers. A good system can be picked up for nothing if money is tights, been their myself.
Ebay has some too.
Here is one as an example.

IceCap 250 Watt Metal Halide MH Ballast with fixture | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for IceCap 250 Watt Metal Halide MH Ballast with fixture at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I might just have to switch to Halides tbh it lowkey seems like a better option lol I gotta read into the growth rates too and find best brands etc etc, you guys actually convinced me lol LED’s don’t seem so nice anymore

 

[oreo54]

That’s what did it for me. The humidity. It was just too much to handle.

It’s been about a net zero result. Some things genuinely perked up and grow faster with better color and shape. Some things are worse. The look is pretty close from an aesthetic stance.

My electric bill is about $100 less a month.

So out of curiosity why halides over say a newer LED?
It 's sort of confusing.
Did my own numbers crunching on electricity and LED vs halides really was only about $100/yr but based on watt parity and 9hrs and .12/kwh

To be honest w/ $1200 extra $'s per year and the above statements.. I'm baffled.

Now recommending to others is another story, sure it is a cheapish and plug and play (zero adjustments except bulb swaps for the most part) to recommend but in the long run???

For fun and someone who puts their livelihood in the game..

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

So out of curiosity why halides over say a newer LED?
It 's sort of confusing.
Did my own numbers crunching on electricity and LED vs halides really was only about $100/yr but based on watt parity and 9hrs and .12/kwh

To be honest w/ $1200 extra $'s per year and the above statements.. I'm baffled.

Now recommending to others is another story, sure it is a cheapish and plug and play (zero adjustments except bulb swaps for the most part) to recommend but in the long run???

For fun and someone who puts their livelihood in the game..

I think it depends on the brand, the cost upfront for halides is significantly lower to the point where it makes up for the cost of its power consumption. I posted a chart that really shows the cost analysis. Only things is it doesn’t include the difference in growth/color or resell of halides vs LED’s

 

[oreo54]

I think it depends on the brand, the cost upfront for halides is significantly lower to the point where it makes up for the cost of its power consumption. I posted a chart that really shows the cost analysis. Only things is it doesn’t include the difference in growth/color or resell of halides vs LED’s

Except current flavor of the day is hybrids..For many even MH's aren't "enough".. LOL
Resale is an ??? and market dependent..
Not too long ago people were buying MH fixtures for a song. By the time you want to sell that may even be another dip in the market.
Like energy, it's variable.

 

[PBnJOnWheat]

Except current flavor of the day is hybrids..For many even MH's aren't "enough".. LOL

Yeah the resale on LED’s is very high. And the chart I did was for a T5 MH hybrid lol I’d say to do a hybrid not just one or the other though lol idk I’ve only ever used LED’s.

 

[oreo54]

Yeah the chart I did was for a T5 MH hybrid lol I’d say to do a hybrid not just one though lol idk I’ve only ever used LED’s

Doing ones own analysis is always THE only thing to do.
All of them work...

Odds are water chemistry, maintenance, or pests/disease will take your tank down before any decent light will.,