No love for MH?

oreo54 · Feb 13, 2019

Variable Usage (MAX)

Click to expand...

- 190w

again what are you comparing????
Note most won't run ALL channels at 100% so "effective" power is probably more like 100-150W

lancesmith1 · Feb 13, 2019

It only went up less than 1.5 degrees today. I will keep an eye on it. I am in my basement home office with a south facing window so I am concerned. But it was sunny today and no issues.

lancesmith1 · Feb 13, 2019

RCS82 said:
Lancesmith1, you have the HQI 20k hamilton to run plus the 14k Phoenix? Definitely interested in hearing how they compare.
Thanks

I would ay the Hamilton 20K looks very nice and blue tinted. as it should be... almost like a Radium 20K. But the Phoenix has some pop but looks more natural like you were diving and seeing the coral.

biecacka · Feb 13, 2019

What is a good SE bulb similar to the Phoenix?

Corey

jda · Feb 14, 2019

PEC used to make SE 14k Phoenix bulbs. If you get REALLY lucky, you might be able to find some. 20k Radium is the closest for me.

biecacka · Feb 14, 2019

I agree with the radium. I have ran them for many years in the past. Just thougt I might try something different now.
Thanks,

Corey

Lingwendil · Feb 14, 2019

jda said:
IMO, 14k Phoenix is the best-of-breed DE 250w bulb. It can be run on an electronic ballast, but it was made for m80. It will have less output and be just a tad bit more blue on Electronic ballast - still a great solution and you could always move to a m80 on down the road.

The 14K phoenix and the 20K radium are the absolute best halide bulbs IMHO, too bad the radiums don't come in a DE. They are the gold standard in replicating "the look" with LEDs, most of the setups I build are to specifically replicate their coloration and growth when building custom rigs for others.

The underdriven (electronic ballast) 250W radium 20K look is the absolute best aesthetic in reefing if you ask me. Many LED setups come close, but it's still tricky to get the same mojo with LEDs. Not impossible, just tricky

I'm an LED guy primarily (for my own setups at least) but still set up or work on halides for others occasionally. They are still a reasonable option on larger/taller setups in my opinion, but technology is leaving them behind, for better or for worse.

jda · Feb 14, 2019

biecacka said:
Just thougt I might try something different now.

Some people are loving the Giesemann 17.5K and 21k bulbs. They have a bit more blue and purple that are more similar to heavily supplemented RB LEDs. ...these are the bulbs of choice for people who are coming from a windex LED tank. They are more white than windex, but still pretty blue. This is about all that I can recommend. The Ushio 15k was nice, but it is gone (I think). Hammy bulbs are good, too, but not better than 20k Radium, IMO.

lancesmith1 · Feb 14, 2019

Ok. Just ran some PAR numbers on the infiniti with the PHX 14K. And boy am I glad I got my meter today. I had the light mounted at 8 inches above the tank so about 9 inches AWL.

PAR readings with an Apogee 510

0 inches below the water = 880
10 inches below the water (about where my highest corals are) = 530
13 inches = 400
16 inches = 325
18 inches along the front where I have my montiporas was about 400! I attribute this to the light reflecting off the glass.
Pretty much the same either way side to side with very little to any falloff.

So, needless to say that was a little much. I tried moving it to 10 inches above the tank and it was still too much. So I moved it to 12 inches above the tank 13 inches AWL. Here are the numbers...

0 inches below the water = 530
10 inches below the water (about where my highest corals are) = 280
13 inches = 250
16 inches = 230
18 inches along the front = 300

Hope this helps someone else and keeps them from frying their corals.

jda · Feb 14, 2019

Those higher PAR numbers are no threat to coral from MH and T5...these are not LED which can burn coral at those numbers. You can slowly lower the light over a few weeks if you wish.

You can also save money by turning the T5s off when you don't need dusk/dawn... as you can see the MH need no help.

lancesmith1 · Feb 14, 2019

Yes. I agree on lowering it. I read an article last night that said the PHX will loose about 25% of its PAR after about 3 months and then level off for at least another 12 months after that. So I will lower an inch at a time and check the PAR along the way.

RCS82 · Feb 14, 2019

lancesmith1 said:
Yes. I agree on lowering it. I read an article last night that said the PHX will loose about 25% of its PAR after about 3 months and then level off for at least another 12 months after that. So I will lower an inch at a time and check the PAR along the way.

Thanks for posting some numbers, super helpful although not surprised by them lol. That's a 250w bulb? Also what ballast?
Thanks again

lancesmith1 · Feb 14, 2019

Yes 250. It is a Hamilton Electronic set at 277 watts.

topjimmy · Feb 14, 2019

Are you going to do the Hamilton 20k too? That's what I'm running and I'd like to know what you get. I'm getting the club's meter next week so I can check it out.

lancesmith1 · Feb 14, 2019

Not planning on it at this time. I am happy with the Phoenix.

blasterman · Feb 14, 2019

I've been reefing for over 30 years, and anybody claiming that metal halide is a bullet proof solution for reef tanks is wrong.
I hate bad science, and reefing forums are full of lighting science myths that would flunk a 6th grader out of science class. What I hate more is revising history.
15-20 years ago before we had LEDs we had mostly metal halides with fluorescent tubes being the new kid on the block . The reason we were flocking to tubes is we were tired of killing our SPS every time we changed halide bulbs due to horrendous spectral differences in new bulbs vs old bulbs given reef halides were'nt manufactured with enough volume to keep proper Q/C deviations. Changing halide bulbs on a reef tank were like changing fuel rods in a nuclear reactor and done with a lot of shaking and sweating...except I think the Russians had better quality control. With a LED light I can turn the thing down to acclimate coral. Not possible with tubes or halide. Frankly I love the look of a good halide tank because the LED equivelants like the Kessil don't have the color mix down. Otherwise the most vigorous and healthy SPS tanks I've seen are lit with chinese black boxs.

topjimmy · Feb 14, 2019

blasterman said:
I've been reefing for over 30 years, and anybody claiming that metal halide is a bullet proof solution for reef tanks is wrong.
I hate bad science, and reefing forums are full of lighting science myths that would flunk a 6th grader out of science class. What I hate more is revising history.
15-20 years ago before we had LEDs we had mostly metal halides with fluorescent tubes being the new kid on the block . The reason we were flocking to tubes is we were tired of killing our SPS every time we changed halide bulbs due to horrendous spectral differences in new bulbs vs old bulbs given reef halides were'nt manufactured with enough volume to keep proper Q/C deviations. Changing halide bulbs on a reef tank were like changing fuel rods in a nuclear reactor and done with a lot of shaking and sweating...except I think the Russians had better quality control. With a LED light I can turn the thing down to acclimate coral. Not possible with tubes or halide. Frankly I love the look of a good halide tank because the LED equivelants like the Kessil don't have the color mix down. Otherwise the most vigorous and healthy SPS tanks I've seen are lit with chinese black boxs.

I remember those days. Raising the fixture or putting shade cloth over the tank.

I don't think mh is bullet proof any more than I think LEDs are. There are simply too many variables in reefing.

oreo54 · Feb 15, 2019

lancesmith1 said:
Yes. I agree on lowering it. I read an article last night that said the PHX will loose about 25% of its PAR after about 3 months and then level off for at least another 12 months after that. So I will lower an inch at a time and check the PAR along the way.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php

Bulb #3, on the other hand, had an “initial” output of only 67% of that of the highest bulb. This bulb was, in fact, already over one year old at the start of the study rather than new as were all the other bulbs.

lancesmith1 · Feb 15, 2019

Yep. That's the piece I was referring to. Thanks

jda · Feb 15, 2019

I have not really sweated a bulb chance since reef bulbs became popular and you were not using street-light lamps anymore. I am changing mine this weekend and I will just swap them out and not do anything for acclimation. I do remember issues with 4300k and 5500k bulbs.

If only run at 277w, then there is plenty of room for those DE bulbs to produce more with real m80 ballasts if you ever need it.