No love for MH?

RCS82 · Jul 2, 2019

Glad this epic battle just got bumped lol

Bpb · Jul 2, 2019

metone914 said:
Just wanted to chime in and say I’m grateful I found this thread. As a reefer who has gotten back into the hobby after 15 years the new lighting options didn’t float my boat. I’m currently building a 180 mostly sps system and have been vacillating on what lights to use. The whole hobby it seemed was agog over leds and I felt like I had to use them. I have now made up my mind. I’m going to blow the dust off my 72” mh fixture and be done with it[emoji16]

Still not a bad idea to stock up on bulbs

leepink23 · Jul 2, 2019

Switching to halides was a great decision. I see why it was so popular and why people still recommend them!

RCS82 · Jul 2, 2019

Any M/H fans out there using the Hamilton 250w DE 20k bulb?
I'm running 14k Phoenix bulbs and was thinking about trying the Hamiltons, or maybe best to stick with what I'm using?

120reefkeeper · Jul 2, 2019

leepink23 said:
Switching to halides was a great decision. I see why it was so popular and why people still recommend them!

Oh yes the work lol

You might not get that huge blue pop.... but....

Lots of folks complain about heat ... never an issue for me. No chiller needed just use some fans controlled by my Apex.

Folks complain about the energy cost. If that’s what your concerned about your in the wrong hobby . Same folks will spend 1200.00 on a 1 head torch coral.. :/

Some complain about bulb changes.... again the cost of entry for a large aquarium LED setup is just astonishing.

Mind you I have several tanks .

1 is LED it does fine , nice colors and I would say standard growth.

2nd is all T5 great growth!

3rd is Halide /t5 amazing color and growth!!

vanpire · Jul 2, 2019

metone914 said:
Just wanted to chime in and say I’m grateful I found this thread. As a reefer who has gotten back into the hobby after 15 years the new lighting options didn’t float my boat. I’m currently building a 180 mostly sps system and have been vacillating on what lights to use. The whole hobby it seemed was agog over leds and I felt like I had to use them. I have now made up my mind. I’m going to blow the dust off my 72” mh fixture and be done with it[emoji16]

It feels great to just re-use what u have, and it still works great. Doesn’t it? Newest is not always greatest.

120reefkeeper · Jul 3, 2019

RCS82 said:
Any M/H fans out there using the Hamilton 250w DE 20k bulb?
I'm running 14k Phoenix bulbs and was thinking about trying the Hamiltons, or maybe best to stick with what I'm using?

Not sure about the Hamilton’s . I also use the 14k Phoenix... great bulb!

jda · Jul 3, 2019

A few years ago Hammy 20k is bluer than 14k Phoenix and less output. It looks nice. I have used them before when I wanted a bit less PAR.

A few years ago, Hamilton reconfigured their SE 20k bulb. I don't know if they changed their DE 20k bulb as well. Probably best to call and ask.

riche · Jul 3, 2019

metone914 said:
Just wanted to chime in and say I’m grateful I found this thread. As a reefer who has gotten back into the hobby after 15 years the new lighting options didn’t float my boat. I’m currently building a 180 mostly sps system and have been vacillating on what lights to use. The whole hobby it seemed was agog over leds and I felt like I had to use them. I have now made up my mind. I’m going to blow the dust off my 72” mh fixture and be done with it[emoji16]

And be happy while looking at your tank.

If I ever do a tank bigger then a 40 breeder I will do MH as I love the look it gives and the growth

JOKER · Jul 3, 2019

metone914 said:
Just wanted to chime in and say I’m grateful I found this thread. As a reefer who has gotten back into the hobby after 15 years the new lighting options didn’t float my boat. I’m currently building a 180 mostly sps system and have been vacillating on what lights to use. The whole hobby it seemed was agog over leds and I felt like I had to use them. I have now made up my mind. I’m going to blow the dust off my 72” mh fixture and be done with it[emoji16]

Hard to go wrong with MH. I went from LED to MH, and couldn't be happier. I do plan to add some LED for pop soon though. They seem to bring out the colors a little better paired with T5.

biecacka · Jul 3, 2019

What bulb do you use for your halide. I am running the Hamilton 20k 250watt and like it. I tried it instead of the radium, but have tinkered with going back to 400watt. Not sure if I need all that though so gonna get a par meter and check it out. Not sure why t5 and leds go hand in hand, if you need more leds why not get more or just run all t5. I run only halides and it is odd to me that led users talk about bulb replacement etc then put t5 on their led setups. Not knocking it because I’ve seen some awesome tanks like that just curious as to why.

Corey

Minireef30 · Jul 3, 2019

Hamilton 20k 250w. SE is on sale for 44 each on Hamilton's website.

https://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=118

AQUANATURE · Jul 4, 2019

Cant use them n Australia our power prices are insane despite being a no 1 coal producing country

Jonathan Troutt · Jul 4, 2019

jda said:
It is not a dying breed. Numbers are going up (along with T5s)... Hamilton is constantly sold out of stuff since demand over the last few years has been more than they have expected. A big retailer said at MACNA that AquaticLife Hybrid units are outselling all of the big-three LEDs combined - he did not say what those are, but Kessil, AI and EcoTech are probably them.

Of the 20 folks that are the best reefers around me in Colorado, 16 or 17 of them use MH in some capacity and none of the rest of them use LED alone and really only for supplement - 20 out of 20 relying on MH or T5 for the heavy lifting. About half of them went all-LED in the boom and are now back. We do live in Colorado and any heat is a blessing - not that heat is hard to solve if you want to, but it can be more of a problem in some climates.

Most of the MH people are sick of fighting with the front runners and noobies and just do not post too much... the fight is just not worth it to most. I do not mind fighting, but I do get sick of the people who have no idea what they are talking about telling me that I am stupid... only for them to not be in the hobby a year or two later. I think that their posts are just lower since the leading edge drive the forums.

You can tell that MH usage is on the upswing since I cannot get m80 ballasts for $20 anymore nor good reflectors and fixtures for pennies on the dollar... you have to pay a reasonable price for used MH gear now. It has been like this for a few years.

Well you M/H guys should speak up more. It may have saved me some money in the beginning as well as saved me from looking like an idiot! Knowing what i know now i will use led for supplementation. If i get the opportunity to try MH one day i will jump on it.

oreo54 · Jul 5, 2019

t5/MH combos go back aways..

https://www.aquacave.com/cebu-sun-7...5-lighting-system-by-hamilton-technology.html

Actually and this is just a historical personal opinion, one of the issues w/ LEd's is directly caused by Metal Halides.. That "shimmer" thing from them..
So you get Radions, Kessils ect..

So you have "tubes" i.e diffuse light (regardless of reflectors)
MH's more "concentrated beam light w/ diffusion and
LEd's really concentrated light..

Rest is mostly power factors..
See you get issues when they unfortunately sold LED's as MH equivalents when the wattage was soo much different YET the watt efficiency (photons/watt) was similar.
LED's "made up" for it, in part, by being even more directional than even MH's in good reflectors (you will always waste photons)...

Want 400W equiv MH..build a 300W LED.. Real watts not "listed" watts..
You want a specific MH spectrum..use the right diodes..yea you can get blending issues..but hey part of the challenge.

Which gets us a bit back to spectrum again..

for fun..see post14.
read text
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2696323

People have "wasted" plenty of money switching tube/bulb types w/ MH/T5's so don't feel bad..
Those bb's are what.. 2 good MH bulbs..(not counting cheap Chinese stuff or even Home Depot t5's)

One size does not fit all...

jda · Jul 5, 2019

Why would anybody build even a similar wattage LED fixture when they could run MH for the same running cost and maybe/probably less? I guess that some people like to tinker? Besides form factor, which can be really important, the main draw has been the lie that they are more efficient and save money... and the few people who chose poorly and used too much MH in the past and truly did burn too much wattage. Most who have actual experience will gladly waste any photons necessary with a reflector not to get death from beneath and shadowing that the directional light brings - directional is not a positive once you have experience with more than just frags. Then, you don't get any real UV without spending more over time replacing true UV diodes than MH bulbs since they don't last either - people who say that LEDs last 50,000 hours are using cut-spectrum models without true UV. You would get some heat when you added in IR to help with Emerson Effect. In the end, you would spend more money to replace a MH with all kinds of unknowns (what you call the challenge, but those of us with actual tanks don't like to "challenge" our corals to live) with no guarantee of success. I cannot believe that it is so vexing to see why most of the best-of-the-best still prefer mercury based light source.

I put an album together of some of my tanks and corals under just MH - no T5 or LED to supplement. Most of these are with an iPhone up to 7 or 8 years old and are bad pictures, but I am at least offering them instead of just links to other people's stuff.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmEPiBrD

Here is a sampling with Softies:

Acropora & Clams:

Bpb · Jul 5, 2019

Posts like the above are some of the most important when getting advice from people. I think examples of someone’s success with whatever method they are explaining and recommending are every bit as important as the information itself. Advice is of little importance if there’s no evidence it’s actually working for someone. Excellent pictures @jda

biecacka · Jul 5, 2019

I think people have been misled on watt usage. If you replace 2 250watt halides you cannot think that 2 160watt led fixtures would provide the same output. I just don’t know how that works but it’s not my area of expertise either...but seems wrong. That is why you often seen people add t5 to their led or add more fixtures. Sanjay is a perfect example, went from 3 halides at 400 watts each to 10 g4 Radions at 100% to provide coverage and enough light. Aside from the $7500 cost of the radions up front he is using more watts each month, something he acknowledges as well.

Corey

oreo54 · Jul 5, 2019

3 400W mh's are 1200 Watts and run real world close to that..
10 G4's 15's is 950 watts..but let's here it from him.................

I ran 1200 watts of halides for 10 hours before and had good growth – now I run roughly the same wattage of LEDs and get better growth on most corals

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/dr-joshi’s-500-gallon-sps-dominated-mixed-reef.2/

If he's running more overall watts it's because of added heating..making up for the Mh's IR radiation..

oreo54 · Jul 5, 2019

jda said:
Why would anybody build even a similar wattage LED fixture when they could run MH for the same running cost and maybe/probably less? I guess that some people like to tinker? Besides form factor, which can be really important, the main draw has been the lie that they are more efficient and save money... and the few people who chose poorly and used too much MH in the past and truly did burn too much wattage. Most who have actual experience will gladly waste any photons necessary with a reflector not to get death from beneath and shadowing that the directional light brings - directional is not a positive once you have experience with more than just frags. Then, you don't get any real UV without spending more over time replacing true UV diodes than MH bulbs since they don't last either - people who say that LEDs last 50,000 hours are using cut-spectrum models without true UV. You would get some heat when you added in IR to help with Emerson Effect. In the end, you would spend more money to replace a MH with all kinds of unknowns (what you call the challenge, but those of us with actual tanks don't like to "challenge" our corals to live) with no guarantee of success. I cannot believe that it is so vexing to see why most of the best-of-the-best still prefer mercury based light source.

Hey we find some agreement..

the main draw has been the lie that they are more efficient and save money...

Sort of a slippery slope..but pretty much in agreement here.. within reason..and depending on LED build and time frame..

I've said numerous times, each tech has it's plusses and minuses..I don't "recommend" any for that reason..
you can ague about UV/IR all you want but that is an area expanding in LED..thanks to land plant research..