Not sure what to do, reef in distress

[vetteguy53081]

Chasing numbers will do more harm than good. I would take a look at what changed when the tank behavior changed which is : The Salt. There known field issues with F&S salt as well as Fritz salt. Test the new seawater in which you enter into your tank and see what the DKH and Alk readings are.
Also, if you can, obtain a second test/reading taking a water sample to an LFS and see what salinity reading they get as a false salinity will cause havoc as well.

 

[PghReef]

Chasing numbers will do more harm than good. I would take a look at what changed when the tank behavior changed which is : The Salt. There known field issues with F&S salt as well as Fritz salt. Test the new seawater in which you enter into your tank and see what the DKH and Alk readings are.
Also, if you can, obtain a second test/reading taking a water sample to an LFS and see what salinity reading they get as a false salinity will cause havoc as well.

I was wondering if it could be the salt. My tank parameters havnt changed much but was wondering if some other trace elements I dont test for could have causing the issues. I do use a refractometer and have 2 separate calibration fluids I use to keep it in check.

 

[anon9896]

I ran aquarium with high nitrates , high salt low salt low nitrates high phosphates low phosphates hight nutrients low nutrients hot cold food no food and etx.... and honestly , never seen something as frustrating that kep me as clueless as a low iodine level.
Normally, when someone doses, he then start spacing his water changes ... what would be the point in doing those water changes if all levels comonly discussed in the hobby are head shot? The problem is all the ions and trace elements that are provided with those said water changes... some people have some great food out there that help with those.. For my part I pushed the limit in many direction to see what has been missing started dosing all of those things and went back doing regular water changes.
My aquarium has never been so healthy...
Good luck with your crisis , hope you nail your problem

 

[vetteguy53081]

I ran aquarium with high nitrates , high salt low salt low nitrates high phosphates low phosphates hight nutrients low nutrients hot cold food no food and etx.... and honestly , never seen something as frustrating that kep me as clueless as a low iodine level.
Normally, when someone doses, he then start spacing his water changes ... what would be the point in doing those water changes if all levels comonly discussed in the hobby are head shot? The problem is all the ions and trace elements that are provided with those said water changes... some people have some great food out there that help with those.. For my part I pushed the limit in many direction to see what has been missing started dosing all of those things and went back doing regular water changes.
My aquarium has never been so healthy...
Good luck with your crisis , hope you nail your problem

Same here on refract. Calibrated and tested again to find out refract told me 1.026 and it was actually 1.031 and loss of coral and color

 

[PghReef]

I ran aquarium with high nitrates , high salt low salt low nitrates high phosphates low phosphates hight nutrients low nutrients hot cold food no food and etx.... and honestly , never seen something as frustrating that kep me as clueless as a low iodine level.
Normally, when someone doses, he then start spacing his water changes ... what would be the point in doing those water changes if all levels comonly discussed in the hobby are head shot? The problem is all the ions and trace elements that are provided with those said water changes... some people have some great food out there that help with those.. For my part I pushed the limit in many direction to see what has been missing started dosing all of those things and went back doing regular water changes.
My aquarium has never been so healthy...
Good luck with your crisis , hope you nail your problem

Thanks, did you use an iodine test kit or ICP? I still was averaging 10-15% weekly WC but maybe the new salt has low iodine?

 

[anon9896]

1

Same here on refract. Calibrated and tested again to find out refract told me 1.026 and it was actually 1.031 and loss of coral and color

1.031 I agree is too high enough to make trouble

 

[anon9896]

Thanks, did you use an iodine test kit or ICP? I still was averaging 10-15% weekly WC but maybe the new salt has low iodine?

Yes new salt can have low iodine , personally I use a salifert dual test kit and I never even managed to have a reading on those while adding what seems to be a high quantity of iodine. My corals literally exploded. So I just keep dosing the recommended and water change .. 30% every 2 weeks.

 

[anon9896]

I can tell you what led me to this frustration .
I remember my acropora wich was the closest to the light started to bleach out, then my montipora started to recess as well. My longfin wrass started to have a fongus in the mouth... thats what led me to read on iodine. Iodine can help against fungus so I started adding some and there I found my problem.
Just so you know , I had 2 month prior a snail baby boom , I had hundreds of em.
I suspect it had an impact on my level of iodine but I havent done more research on that.

 

[Greentree]

While you’re checking equipment, might want to double check the temp with a second source. Never know!

 

[DSC reef]

Thanks, did you use an iodine test kit or ICP? I still was averaging 10-15% weekly WC but maybe the new salt has low iodine?

Just make sure you test before dosing iodine. Typically weekly water changes will replenish things like iodine.

 

[Paul B]

. Also had some more algae so decided to start the fluconazole treatment after reading 100 pages of the thread and decreased feeding. Within days my corals all looked worse and I thought maybe turning down the lights would help in case they were stressed.

Tank is way to new and much to clean. Throw some fish in there and feed them anything but dry food. Also throw out that fluconzole.

 

[PghReef]

After reading through everything and pondering over what to do for awhile I agree with the take it slow and dont do to much at once. I was trying a hands off let things settle out approach but it's been obvious that some intervention is needed to try and minimize loss.

As stated I took the fluconazole offline by adding carbon and did a large waterchange. Safe to say I will not redose Paul! I will continue with 10% weekly WC and change my carbon biweekly as I've always done.

I will continue to dose the vibrant weekly for awhile as it does seem to help with the glass film algae.

I removed the worst looking corals and placed in the coral qt tank. Wont be adding new coral until this is fully resolved.

Agree with Paul, way to clean need more fish! I plan on getting a few but they will go through qt first. Not worried about adding fish a they're healthy as can be.

I stopped feeding aminoacids or reef roids soon after things looked worse. Only used couple week. Seems that when I started those it coincided with with my issues. Not saying they're cause and I hope to try them again, just trying to keep things simple.

Lighting will stay the same.

I halved the time on my dosing pumps. Will keep testing and try to get my alk stable to around 7.5 and ca 450.

I see liveaquria has coralife salt back. Seems strange that a lot of my issues started with the new salt. Funny thing is I started with coralife before switching to liveaquriasalt. Used a whole bucket of the new stuff and bought a 2nd one, maybe a bad lot 2nd time around? Also my coral qt was set up with coralife and dosed woth fluconazole. No where near the coral problems as my DT but too many variables to say the salt if the problem for sure. Thinking of buying a bucket of coralife again or starting red sea blue bucket and using up the remaining LA salt for fish Qt.

 

[anon9896]

Have you checked you iodine ?

 

[PghReef]

Have you checked you iodine ?

I have not as I dont have the means to. I did some reading on it including some posts from randy in the chemistry forum and am unsure of adding anything else to the mix. I would think weekly WC would help and it I dont see improvement I might try dosing some iodine but want to limit changes to 1 at a time

 

[Paul B]

I would also stop carbon and vibrant. Chemicals are a no no and trying to eliminate certain things and keep other things is not what carbon does. It kind of removes everything and is a big stressor as many of those things in your water are needed. You are already changing water. More than I would but the carbon is removing some of the trace elements that your water changes are replacing. I stopped using carbon 10 years ago.

The problem with your reef is that it is to clean. I would stop trying to make it cleaner.

 

[anon9896]

I have not as I dont have the means to. I did some reading on it including some posts from randy in the chemistry forum and am unsure of adding anything else to the mix. I would think weekly WC would help and it I dont see improvement I might try dosing some iodine but want to limit changes to 1 at a time

Kk ill be following gl.

 

[Johnny Stecchino]

Be careful with vibrant. Yes, your tank will look cleaner but... I don't use vibrant but occasionally when I have too much diatoms I dose a few ml (in a 200g tank) of Dr. Tims waste away which is similar heterotrophic bacteria to vibrant. The diatoms quickly disappear but I see, for a few days, the coral polyps retract and fish behaving funky, like drunk and scratching a lot. Never had a bloom with cloudy water. It gets rid of the diatom bloom but I also think it does affect fish and corals and not in a good way. I tested the water when I saw coral and fish getting affected and never registered any ammonia, nitrite or nitrates so that's not it. It may be just the effect of those bacteria. Powerful stuff for sure.
Also, agree with your alk being too high for the level of no3 and po4 you have. Are your corals receding at the tip? usually, that is the sign of too high alk on an ultra-low nutrient tank.
Lastly, do not underestimate chloramine. Check online the water quality report of your municipal water. If you have chloramine in your area, there is a good chance it may breaking through your rodi system. It will not register on your TDS meter. Chloramine is not charged and not really effectively removed by the DI resin. Chloramine is removed only by the carbon blocks. BRS universal 1 micron blocks are ok but they get saturated quickly, In addition chloramine needs a long contact time with the carbon, which usually doesn't happen with the regular size 10" filters. Even if I didn't lose any corals, I noticed stunted growth in my acros during the wintertime when my tank evaporates a lot because of drier air in the house from having the heater on. I am evaporating 5 gallons plus each day in the winter and this requires much more top off water than the summer. I tested the rodi water for chloramine and indeed it was there. I believe my tank in the winter couldn't handle the amount chloramine I was introducing with the top off water, but it did fine with the lesser amount I was introducing in the summer. I added a large chloramine filter (the one BRS sell as monster chloramine filter) and things changed night to day.
Also without a skimmer, your water may be having a lot of dissolved organic stuff that unfortunately is unmeasurable but may be affecting the health of your corals as well. Think about those, particularly if you are having problems with undesired cyano or gha. Hopefully, you will straighten out your tank. It takes patience, frustration and a lot of observation to try to understand what is going on. When you make changes try to change one variable at the time, then wait for a few weeks or longer if you can to evaluate the effect of your change. If you do not have the luxury of time, frequent water changes with a good quality salt will be your friend, unless you have dinoflagellates, but that would be a topic for another day.

 

[PghReef]

I would also stop carbon and vibrant. Chemicals are a no no and trying to eliminate certain things and keep other things is not what carbon does. It kind of removes everything and is a big stressor as many of those things in your water are needed. You are already changing water. More than I would but the carbon is removing some of the trace elements that your water changes are replacing. I stopped using carbon 10 years ago.

The problem with your reef is that it is to clean. I would stop trying to make it cleaner.

Thanks Paul, I know you run avery succesful system. I've always been on the fence of using carbon. I dont skim or use gfo. I figure carbon can help remove chemical warfare between corals.
I agree maybe the tank is too clean, but when I look in there I have plenty of algae on the rocks and detritus in the nooks and crannies. I dont see a pristine white tank and I have a huge pod population supported by my algae. That's why I get confused should I feed more or less. I only use LRS frozen but am thinking of starting some blackworm cultures.

 

[PghReef]

Be careful with vibrant. Yes, your tank will look cleaner but... I don't use vibrant but occasionally when I have too much diatoms I dose a few ml (in a 200g tank) of Dr. Tims waste away which is similar heterotrophic bacteria to vibrant. The diatoms quickly disappear but I see, for a few days, the coral polyps retract and fish behaving funky, like drunk and scratching a lot. Never had a bloom with cloudy water. It gets rid of the diatom bloom but I also think it does affect fish and corals and not in a good way. I tested the water when I saw coral and fish getting affected and never registered any ammonia, nitrite or nitrates so that's not it. It may be just the effect of those bacteria. Powerful stuff for sure.
Also, agree with your alk being too high for the level of no3 and po4 you have. Are your corals receding at the tip? usually, that is the sign of too high alk on an ultra-low nutrient tank.
Lastly, do not underestimate chloramine. Check online the water quality report of your municipal water. If you have chloramine in your area, there is a good chance it may breaking through your rodi system. It will not register on your TDS meter. Chloramine is not charged and not really effectively removed by the DI resin. Chloramine is removed only by the carbon blocks. BRS universal 1 micron blocks are ok but they get saturated quickly, In addition chloramine needs a long contact time with the carbon, which usually doesn't happen with the regular size 10" filters. Even if I didn't lose any corals, I noticed stunted growth in my acros during the wintertime when my tank evaporates a lot because of drier air in the house from having the heater on. I am evaporating 5 gallons plus each day in the winter and this requires much more top off water than the summer. I tested the rodi water for chloramine and indeed it was there. I believe my tank in the winter couldn't handle the amount chloramine I was introducing with the top off water, but it did fine with the lesser amount I was introducing in the summer. I added a large chloramine filter (the one BRS sell as monster chloramine filter) and things changed night to day.
Also without a skimmer, your water may be having a lot of dissolved organic stuff that unfortunately is unmeasurable but may be affecting the health of your corals as well. Think about those, particularly if you are having problems with undesired cyano or gha. Hopefully, you will straighten out your tank. It takes patience, frustration and a lot of observation to try to understand what is going on. When you make changes try to change one variable at the time, then wait for a few weeks or longer if you can to evaluate the effect of your change. If you do not have the luxury of time, frequent water changes with a good quality salt will be your friend, unless you have dinoflagellates, but that would be a topic for another day.

I have the 6 stage system with 2 carbon blocks. Also all water is made a week before using, not sure I'd chloramines dissipate with time or not I'd have to research that. The birdnest died tips down like alk burn. Stylos base up, eencrusing montis center outward, and frogspawn just closed and slowly died expanding less daily but no signs of brown jelly.

 

[Johnny Stecchino]

Letting the water settle for a week should help with chloramine a lot. so that may not be it. Alk still is a prime suspect though. Not just the level but the swing as well. Do you have an idea why it does swing so much and what timeframe?, Do you have the swing you reported one day to the other or after a water change and before the next? are you dosing 2 parts?