Not sure what to do...

Squared · Jun 4, 2016

Sorry for the long post, but I have a lot of concerns...

I have a 10g QT set up with a multicolor angel and two clownfish. One clown and the angel has been in there a week, and the other clown only a few days.

Clown #2 looked really bad this morning and last night, stopped eating and was listless on the floor of the QT. He is sectioned off by himself with a faux anemone. Slowly coming around, has been swimming and I saw it eat a little.

The clown has visible signs of ich, and plan to start cupramine as soon as I get it from amazon.
I want to use mardel quick cure for a few days before the copper, since I did not dip any of these fish and I don't want stress the clowns out anymore. (also treatment time is 3 days not 2 weeks)

Can I use quick cure in the QT, and not as a dip? Or should I start with prazipro for two weeks and hope the ich doesn't get out of hand? I saw some scratching on the PVC.

Could the "ich" be the start of velvet or brook? The clown has been breathing heavily but I think he's calming down.

Humblefish · Jun 4, 2016

With clownfish, I always worry that "ich" is actually brook or velvet. Because their mucous coat is so thick and typically protects them from ich (but for some reason, not brook). Showing symptoms of velvet is iffy with them. Post some pics of the visible signs if you can so we can help you try to nail this down.

Quick Cure would help if this is velvet or brook (surface parasites), but not ich (embedded parasite). However, being Quick Cure contains formalin I wouldn't chance it with the angel unless you were sure this is a disease which formalin treats.

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2016

+1 Pictures would help.. Close up clear pictures - or as good as you can get.

Squared · Jun 4, 2016

I have him(hopefully a him) sequestered in his own corner since the larger one picks on him. Did not buy them together so I am aware that I may already have two females, but that is another issue.

These were the best I could get:

Looks a bit thin here..

Eating, but not with too much enthusiasm. Has been doing better after spending some time alone.
There is a lighter, whitish colored patch of skin that streaks into the anal fin. Does not appear fuzzy. I think its just the color of the fish as it not gotten worse in the 2 days I had him.

And the angel for sure has ich now. The cupramine arrives on wednesday, should I wait or just go to an LFS?

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2016

I may just not be seeing it, but I dont see anything wrong with that fish. Am I missing it?

Squared · Jun 4, 2016

yeah i was not able to capture the ich spots. also a bit wobbly when swimming (even for a clown).

he ate most of the pellets when I sank them

melypr1985 · Jun 5, 2016

Ok. I did see the light patch near his tail. I still dont see any signs of ich or other problems. I'll have to rely on your observations and I'll need to ask a few questions for that.

How many white spots do you see? Are there just a few or too many to count? Are they about the size of salt or are they small like fine sugar or sand? Does he looks dusty or hazy?

Humblefish · Jun 5, 2016

Squared said:
And the angel for sure has ich now. The cupramine arrives on wednesday, should I wait or just go to an LFS?

If its just ich, you're probably fine waiting until Wednesday. But if its velvet, you need it ASAP.

Squared · Jun 5, 2016

The spots are very fine and spread apart evenly, hard to tell they are there unless you get close. On all 3 fish.

It is hard to say if they look dusty, but comparing them to google images I don't think they are. I think these fish just have that kind of complexion naturally.

Lights are off, they all had some food, when I'm back at my LFS tomorrow for water I will have made a decision hopefully.

Thanks for the help guys, I don't QT fish too often and when I do I tend to stress out quite a bit..

ikegolani · Jun 5, 2016

I hate cupramine ,it's to strong, and if the fish doesn't die from the cupramine, the fish isn't going to eat because of the chemical. Also you can't mix any additional medication, which you will need for post ich infections. I hypo every fish prior to them entering my DT, rather they show signs or not. The lower salinity will help his breathing, simultaneously killing the ich. I have done hypo salinity on 15 fish with no casualties.

ikegolani · Jun 5, 2016

I cant find the guide I used a few years back, which I have incorporated some devotions. But here is a general Idea. This one tells you to bring the salinity to 1.010 but I bring it down to 1.008. So I would invest in a nice calibrated refractometer if not already, cheap salt for fish, since you will be doing a lot of water changes, some maracyn two (antibiotic) after you notice flesh wounds, or just after they start to behave like the ich is dieing off. I wouldn't go to crazy about PH, it's going to drop fast once you reach the lower salt levels. That's one of the reasons a water change a day is good other than removing waste.

ikegolani · Jun 5, 2016

http://www.reeftime.com/reef-articl...ng-marine-ich-brooklynella-hyposalinty/19.htm

Humblefish · Jun 5, 2016

Velvet trophonts (and the correlating dots) are much smaller than ich. They range in size from 10-80 micrometers in diameter. They are also perfectly round. Ich trophonts are more oval shaped and range in size from 48 x 27 to 452 x 360 micrometers. Both start off small but then grow in size before dropping off. It has been said that velvet makes a fish look like it has been dusted with a fine powder, whereas ich is more like salt grains. Typically, if you can count the white dots its usually ich. However, if they are too numerous to count there's a good chance you are dealing with velvet. Below are pics of fish with ich (top) and then velvet (below) for comparison purposes.

Squared · Jun 5, 2016

I really cannot tell at this point.

Does hypo cure velvet? I really don't want to do because of the ph problems. I read cupramine is generally a much safer option than other copper treatments and it also treats velvet.

Here in socal our tap is really hard and has a ph around 8, can I use that in hypo?

melypr1985 · Jun 5, 2016

Squared said:
I really cannot tell at this point.

Does hypo cure velvet? I really don't want to do because of the ph problems. I read cupramine is generally a much safer option than other copper treatments and it also treats velvet.

Here in socal our tap is really hard and has a ph around 8, can I use that in hypo?

Hypo will not treat velvet. If you want to go the copper route I would suggest coppersafe. It's a chelated copper and is much easier on the fish than cuppramine can be.

Squared · Jun 5, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Hypo will not treat velvet. If you want to go the copper route I would suggest coppersafe. It's a chelated copper and is much easier on the fish than cuppramine can be.

With coppersafe, can I use the API test kit? Still safe even with the multicolor?