I think I have tried everything the industry has offered over the years. I got bad blooms with pellets, switched to n0p0x and got a weird white bacteria growing in the sump. However that worked to well and was really expensive. I never did find the correct amount to keep my levels just slightly dirty. Instead it was to clean or to dirty long term. And getting off any carbon dosing is ruff. So I just slowly transitioned into full refugium and cut my display lights back with a awc system. Now everything is stable and I can leave for weeks at a time and not worry.
Nutrient export
- Nano Build
- Thread starter rgodoy22
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My issue is algae, my rock are covered with thick dark green algae and I will occasionally have cyano growth. My biggest issue is that I can’t seem to control my nutrients and have a dirty tank no matter what I try. As for clean up crew I have 5-8 hermit crabs, astraea snails about 4 or so, and a couple cerith. My cuc does not last long when I place them in my display tank I qt everything for 72 days but when I add my cuc to my display they eventually all dye off in a week or 2 so I am constantly adding as they go through qt
The dead snails is your issue it sounds like. It's many fish stores bread and butter. However you don't even need them. Snails are nasty when they die and break down. So my suggestion is stop the snails and use working fish.
thanks for the suggestion I will hold off on snails, I was afraid to thinking it may just increase the algae growth in the thank. What fish would you recommend I have a lawnmower blenny and a kole tang already. I don’t have any shrimp would you recommend that as well?
NS Mike D
In the arena.
undetectable PO4 (assume you are using a reliable test kit) I think is your culprit. Nuisance algae/bacteria can be more resourceful than corals, so they flourish while your corals struggle.
You posted that you are thinking for switching from GFO to pellets. If your PO4 is zero, seems to me it makes no sense to run GFO.
Zooxanthellae in your corals need both NO3 and PO4 to make the sugars for the corals. If there is no PO4 then makes sense that your corals and Cheato will not be using up NO3 du to the lack of its partner for photosynthesis. If you let PO4 rise, you may very well see NO3 drop as your corals and cheato do their thing.
Cut the GFO and only use it to control PO4 when it goes above your target numbers (you didn't post your target numbers so I recommend if you don't have targets to do so - Red Sea has good articles on this , they suggest PO4 at 0.08 - 0.12 ppm for mixed reef tanks with NO3 at 1-2 ppm).
Pellets can be tricky, I would not do that until you see where the tank NO3 and PO4 balances after you stop stripping the tank of PO4. If you still need to carbon dose, Red Sea NOPOX is more precise/predictable.
Also, read @brandon429 thread on how to clean your sand and rocks of detritus and algae with H2O2 and elbow grease scrubbing. He will even let you start a cleaning thread to guide you through the process and document your progress.
You posted that you are thinking for switching from GFO to pellets. If your PO4 is zero, seems to me it makes no sense to run GFO.
Zooxanthellae in your corals need both NO3 and PO4 to make the sugars for the corals. If there is no PO4 then makes sense that your corals and Cheato will not be using up NO3 du to the lack of its partner for photosynthesis. If you let PO4 rise, you may very well see NO3 drop as your corals and cheato do their thing.
Cut the GFO and only use it to control PO4 when it goes above your target numbers (you didn't post your target numbers so I recommend if you don't have targets to do so - Red Sea has good articles on this , they suggest PO4 at 0.08 - 0.12 ppm for mixed reef tanks with NO3 at 1-2 ppm).
Pellets can be tricky, I would not do that until you see where the tank NO3 and PO4 balances after you stop stripping the tank of PO4. If you still need to carbon dose, Red Sea NOPOX is more precise/predictable.
Also, read @brandon429 thread on how to clean your sand and rocks of detritus and algae with H2O2 and elbow grease scrubbing. He will even let you start a cleaning thread to guide you through the process and document your progress.
In my opinion, any tank in distress should be rip cleaned 100% new, zero cloud, and all forms of nitrate and phosphate adsorption should be removed. We like to do the 100% opposite action set that a person with a challenge tank wants to do, which is why only about 5% of people join the sand rinse thread, they’d just rather keep the current condition any way you slice it. That being said, if anyone wants to rip clean the reef, there'll be no clouding detritus in the rocks and or sand to warrant the use of po4 and nitrate management anyway. Nobody is running a fish bioload so big, standard care can’t handle their waste. Gfo and nitrate management is today’s attempt at starving algae beforehand, and they should almost never be used in reefing except for unmanageable bioloads. Clean reefs do not need those
see how unpopular all that above is? Lol it’s a wonder I ever get any work jobs. Only 1-5% are willing, willing was all we ever needed to fix a reef. I’ll post a hundred rip offers and five will accept, we add their tanks to the sand rinse thread and they give happy updates, that’s how the churn works. They have to stop following current reef rules that arrived them at our thread, and resume water changes plus feeding and all the hands off stops. The tank is made free of waste totally, it’s therefore open to more feed input.
more feed input is the opposite of the current condition, and it grows coral. The reefer has to now work and clean until the corals are fat and they can only stop and sit back (original cause) after the reef is totally fixed. Feeding and water changes and no detritus fixes every nano all the time sight unseen.
also, po4 and nitrate kits vary wildly tester to tester, we make big changes in reefing based on guess measures all the time. Our method above uses zero testing for any param at any time for that reason.
see how unpopular all that above is? Lol it’s a wonder I ever get any work jobs. Only 1-5% are willing, willing was all we ever needed to fix a reef. I’ll post a hundred rip offers and five will accept, we add their tanks to the sand rinse thread and they give happy updates, that’s how the churn works. They have to stop following current reef rules that arrived them at our thread, and resume water changes plus feeding and all the hands off stops. The tank is made free of waste totally, it’s therefore open to more feed input.
more feed input is the opposite of the current condition, and it grows coral. The reefer has to now work and clean until the corals are fat and they can only stop and sit back (original cause) after the reef is totally fixed. Feeding and water changes and no detritus fixes every nano all the time sight unseen.
also, po4 and nitrate kits vary wildly tester to tester, we make big changes in reefing based on guess measures all the time. Our method above uses zero testing for any param at any time for that reason.
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i was under the impression that if I can’t detect po4 in my system but have excess algae that it’s just being used by the algae and not by the coral (so I’m just feeding the algae). But won’t allowing my po4 to rise just continue to feed my algae problem? I use a Hanna ultra low checker by the way
Astrea snails suck and I would suggest throwing 20 blue legged hermit crabs. I posted my clean up crew that works for me. 5 to 6 hermits is not enough. Use trocus snails instead of astrea. While I like that you're safe and quarantine you stuff I think that's insane that you quarantine that long for snails and crabs that you cant actually observe anyways... the trick about fish is you can see their skin, eyes etc. You can with snails.
It's my opinion that I think you might be overreacting a little and I strongly suggest a better clean up crew.
I have a 40 Gallon
15 blue legged hermit crabs
10 trocus snails
10 nessarius snails
1 conch snail
1 emerald crab
With your water changes use a Turkey baster to blow out your rock cracks and suck it up with your siphon.
That’s my my thought was to run gfo to strip the w
The reason I qt for 72 is based on the qt thread on this form. I actually lost all my fish in my 30 gal, the tank I had before this due to velvet. I believe it was caused by cuc purchased from a local store tank was up and running for almost a year with out live stock additions until I decided to restock my clean up crew lost all my fish in a matter of days not long after adding the cuc. So I now try to play it save and qt everything but this tank has been really difficult to keep my algae down and coral healthy
The reason I qt for 72 is based on the qt thread on this form. I actually lost all my fish in my 30 gal, the tank I had before this due to velvet. I believe it was caused by cuc purchased from a local store tank was up and running for almost a year with out live stock additions until I decided to restock my clean up crew lost all my fish in a matter of days not long after adding the cuc. So I now try to play it save and qt everything but this tank has been really difficult to keep my algae down and coral healthy
Ok I understand that but could you tell what disease they have on a hermit crab? You cant without a microscope or removing them from their shell. If they die in a QT tank that doesnt mean they were sick. They could have been hungry from the qt tanks lack of food etc or just a bad snail etc.
Hands down the blue legged hermit crabs will help you out and trocus snails are much more sturdy and last longer then astrea. Also the best for sand is nessarius snails.
you are correct a micro scope would be the only way but since my 30 gal crashed I no longer take the risk of not qt for 72 as the thread on this form states. My cuc that does die in qt is most likely from starvation not pest due to there being nothing in there but cuc I try to feed it frozen food but still loose a good amount in the process.
ylreefer
Active Member
I see you have a small tang to. That will definitely help out a bit if it's the algae that's the issue here. You're no3 isn't actually to bad, I know people on our local reef cloud who have success with 20ppm of no3 in their reef tanks.
Asfor the algae, I had GHA in my nano and what I found to be the biggest help was N03-PO4-X (Nopox) by red sea. As bio pellets its a form of carbon dosing. Again as with bio pellets it take some time to get to work, about 4 to 6 weeks so manually removing it was needed at the beginning but ultimately this is was did it for me. If you have space for the bio pellets you could try these, I just went with nopox due to space constraints.
After removing as much of the algae as I could, along with lowing off my rocks every few days the algae stopped growing back after about 2 weeks. It then slowly disappeared over about another 2 weeks.
Clownfishgang
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To help with myalgae issue I added a pincushion urchin and some Mexican turbo snails that knocked out my algae and helped me get my nutrients under control but before the algae was gone I had undetectable nitrates and phosphate
DzidtheReefer
Active Member
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I did not read all the comments but I would increase water changes to 10gals a week, and get an algae blenny, i recommend them to everyone and they do wonders. I also suggest getting big snails. I have some huge mexican snails that keep my rock clean and i have had better results with my tank and client tanks with bigger snails. I also run a refugium with chaeto and 2brightwell bricks and that keeps my nitrates in the 5-10ppm range. I feed heavy, 2-4times a day. To keep phosphates in check, i run about 1/4 cup of Rowaphos gfo and a 1/2cup of carbon on a slight tumble. I have had better results with rowaphos than any other GFO. Hope it helps!
NS Mike D
In the arena.
he's running GFO and has no detectable PO4. IMO, that is part of his problem. The corals are being starved as the nuisance algae/bacteria are being more resourceful.
NS Mike D
In the arena.
You are correct. Without PO4, your corals and the cheato will struggle to use up NO3 and it's appears that your nuisance algae/bacteria are finding a way to thrive. IMO, this is a lose-lose situation that will favor the ugly stuff and limit the good stuff.
Raising your PO4 to 0.08 - 0.12 should perk up coral and cheato photosynthesis and hopefully swing the balance in favor of them while you remove the algae from the tank.
Keep in mind that dead algae puts the NO3 and PO4 back into the water column. Add to that, the living stuff is everywhere in microscopic form and this can be a long battle.
NS Mike D
In the arena.
stop running gfo for now
you may need to do a full h202 cleaning - pm @brandon429 -see post 27 -- he has the highest success rate on the site. you pull the rocks, scrub with an h202 solution, rinse clean and put back. sand gets removed and rinsed and put back. water get a full change while rock and sand are out,. this kills the algae and removes it from the system as well as getting the detritus out.
if you scrub rocks in the display tank, you leave the culprits, the algae just reattaches everywhere and the detritus remains as the food source.
its radical and a bit of work, but not compared with years of scrubbing and tinkering with the water chemistry.
