Nutrient imbalance in a nano tank

[Max Rackstraw]

Ive had a nano tank running for about 3 months. Its had a large green hair algae issue and dinos coming and going these past few weeks.

Nitrate is reading zero on the marine lab test kit and phosphate is reading 0.1 on the red sea marine test kit.

I think phosphate is too high and causing the algae to be able to suck up nitrate so I have been manually removing most of the hair algae and dinos and now running rowa phos to remove phosphate although it hasn't had an impact on my test results yet after 3 days but it is just in a filter sock.

The filtration on the tank is filter floss into a nylon sock containing small amount of rowaphos then a media bag with carbon. Currently no skimmer or anything else

Stocking is two medium clowns and a small checkerboard wrasse fed once a day about a 1/5 of a cube or frozen mysis or brineshrimp.

10% water changes every week although now going down to 10% every other week as i want to get nitrate up... Although correct me if this is a mistake.

Im i right in believeing that i have an algae problem because of a nutrient imbalance, high phosphate low nitrate? Are these things ive listed steps in the right direction?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

A 3 month old tank is ripe for the "ugly stage", we all have to fight algae in the early months of our tank, its part of the maturing process.

What size is the tank? Pics help a lot.

 

[z4chburris]

Ive had a nano tank running for about 3 months. Its had a large green hair algae issue and dinos coming and going these past few weeks.

Nitrate is reading zero on the marine lab test kit and phosphate is reading 0.1 on the red sea marine test kit.

I think phosphate is too high and causing the algae to be able to suck up nitrate so I have been manually removing most of the hair algae and dinos and now running rowa phos to remove phosphate although it hasn't had an impact on my test results yet after 3 days but it is just in a filter sock.

The filtration on the tank is filter floss into a nylon sock containing small amount of rowaphos then a media bag with carbon. Currently no skimmer or anything else

Stocking is two medium clowns and a small checkerboard wrasse fed once a day about a 1/5 of a cube or frozen mysis or brineshrimp.

10% water changes every week although now going down to 10% every other week as i want to get nitrate up... Although correct me if this is a mistake.

Im i right in believeing that i have an algae problem because of a nutrient imbalance, high phosphate low nitrate? Are these things ive listed steps in the right direction?

I think keeping up with the 10% weekly water changes would benefit your tank. As far as the outbreaks go, I think it’s common for these to occur this early on and they typically resolve themselves as your tank finds its balance.

What sorts of bacteria do you have in the tank? Did you use live or dry sand? Have you established a population of micro crustaceans?

 

[Max Rackstraw]

A 3 month old tank is ripe for the "ugly stage", we all have to fight algae in the early months of our tank, its part of the maturing process.

What size is the tank? Pics help a lot.

Yes thats definitely the case. Just wondering if there is anything i can be doing to clean it up i guess

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Im i right in believeing that i have an algae problem because of a nutrient imbalance, high phosphate low nitrate? Are these things ive listed steps in the right direction?

I don't think so, no.

You have algae because a dozen different requirements are being met, but you phosphate is not too high,a nd algae would not be worse with 1 ppm phosphate.

I do not generally recommend trying to starve algae because it often ends up starving corals.

I'd personally raise the nitrate (feed more or dosing) and work on the algae some other way, such as manual removing, herbivores, etc.

 

[Max Rackstraw]

I think keeping up with the 10% weekly water changes would benefit your tank. As far as the outbreaks go, I think it’s common for these to occur this early on and they typically resolve themselves as your tank finds its balance.

What sorts of bacteria do you have in the tank? Did you use live or dry sand? Have you established a population of micro crustaceans?

Alright keeping with the 10% weekly is what i want to do anyway really i do think its beneficial currently. I don't know what sort of bacteria i have but i started the tank with atm colony, caribsea live sand and a peice of live rock from a sump at the lfs. I did sea a bloom of copepods on the glass in the second month but i don't seem them anymore.

 

[Max Rackstraw]

I don't think so, no.

You have algae because a dozen different requirements are being met, but you phosphate is not too high,a nd algae would not be worse with 1 ppm phosphate.

I do not generally recommend trying to starve algae because it often ends up starving corals.

I'd personally raise the nitrate (feed more or dosing) and work on the algae some other way, such as manual removing, herbivores, etc.

Yes this makes sense, i should probably not be using the rowaphos... Ive been introducing more clean up crew ive got urchins and lots of snails and will probably get an emerald crab soon. As for fish I'm thinking I'll get a lawnmower blenny.

 

[z4chburris]

Yes this makes sense, i should probably not be using the rowaphos... Ive been introducing more clean up crew ive got urchins and lots of snails and will probably get an emerald crab soon. As for fish I'm thinking I'll get a lawnmower blenny.

I would give it a little more time before moving forward with additions. The only addition I would recommend are the eco pods from algaebarn, and dosing of additional bacteria that offers a more diverse range of good bacteria. Aquaforest offers a product called life force that could be useful as well as other forms of bacteria. Because once you overcome the hair algae your tank will be ripe for whatever comes next until it’s reached it’s mature balance point.

Keep feeding the tank as normal and keep up your water changes and it will most likely resolve itself.

 

[Max Rackstraw]

I would give it a little more time before moving forward with additions. The only addition I would recommend are the eco pods from algaebarn, and dosing of additional bacteria that offers a more diverse range of good bacteria. Aquaforest offers a product called life force that could be useful as well as other forms of bacteria. Because once you overcome the hair algae your tank will be ripe for whatever comes next until it’s reached it’s mature balance point.

Keep feeding the tank as normal and keep up your water changes and it will most likely resolve itself.

Alright sounds good. I'll throw the rowaphos out i think it'll do more harm than good anyway. Keep up the weekly wc, Feed normally, add pods... The usual basically. I do have a tendancy to overreact with new tanks

 

[z4chburris]

Alright sounds good. I'll throw the rowaphos out i think it'll do more harm than good anyway. Keep up the weekly wc, Feed normally, add pods... The usual basically. I do have a tendancy to overreact with new tanks

It’s a hard itch to not scratch I think we all understand that. That’s why being able to talk about it is so helpful.

But another point id like to make; adding more fish and clean up crew right now without qt could introduce more issues with the introduction of bad bacteria and other nuisances.

 

[Max Rackstraw]

It’s a hard itch to not scratch I think we all understand that. That’s why being able to talk about it is so helpful.

But another point id like to make; adding more fish and clean up crew right now without qt could introduce more issues with the introduction of bad bacteria and other nuisances.

Yes that is a fair point. I think I'll hold off on the fish for a while yet, maybe another month or two or longer?

 

[brandon429]

if you attempt to fix this problem chemically, using non digital/non calibrated test kits to discern levels (they misread, see comparison threads among brands) then you have a 5% chance of fixing the problem and a 95% chance of driving your system into circular tradeoff invasions: dinos, cyano, GHA over and over

that's not a bleak forecast, it's directly readable on any chemistry-used algae control thread for nanos in general much less new nanos that nearly always shine their light too bright for the startup system (your first move is less light levels, lesser photoperiod)

try and search out control threads where people use chemistry to get rid of algae in new reef tanks, look how hard it is to find sustained cure examples.

conversely, if you learn how to rip clean your reef right now and drop those light levels, I give you an 80% chance of sustained fix, it's searchable, a 20% chance you'll need to repeat soon because this tank is new and you stocked it before the rock was covered in coralline (who doesn't do that) and a 0% chance of getting into a succession of dinos, cyano and GHA

chemistry doesn't play much of a role now for you in new tank algae controls. lemme know if you want to see some fix examples. your best method is physical controls, not chemistry ones that rely on misreading / guess level test kits in nearly all stated measurement level examples.

 

[brandon429]

one addendum to above statement: if you have lab-calibrated digital test meters for nitrate/phosphate et al you earn a 10% chance of fixing your issues without circular invasion cycling, 90% still just turns into dinos-cyano-gha

the point is, even accurate chemistry testing doesn't usually work to resolve invasion issues it's too nuanced.

the nuisance algae forum stickies at the top are where I'm getting this % prediction, flip through their pages. they use just about exclusively chemistry response actions, and the updates hold the circular invasions along with the very occasional cure.

once you see how nano reefs work when rip cleaned, you will then see +90% cure rates across the board. it's the worlds best cheat, with no downside. You may ask why rip clean threads are excluded from the nuisance algae forum/I've asked that too lol. it doesn't hold us back from stacking about 300 pages of combined cures though, in searchable threads.

 

[z4chburris]

if you attempt to fix this problem chemically, using non digital/non calibrated test kits to discern levels (they misread, see comparison threads among brands) then you have a 5% chance of fixing the problem and a 95% chance of driving your system into circular tradeoff invasions: dinos, cyano, GHA over and over

that's not a bleak forecast, it's directly readable on any chemistry-used algae control thread for nanos in general much less new nanos that nearly always shine their light too bright for the startup system (your first move is less light levels, lesser photoperiod)

try and search out control threads where people use chemistry to get rid of algae in new reef tanks, look how hard it is to find sustained cure examples.

conversely, if you learn how to rip clean your reef right now and drop those light levels, I give you an 80% chance of sustained fix, it's searchable, a 20% chance you'll need to repeat soon because this tank is new and you stocked it before the rock was covered in coralline (who doesn't do that) and a 0% chance of getting into a succession of dinos, cyano and GHA

chemistry doesn't play much of a role now for you in new tank algae controls. lemme know if you want to see some fix examples. your best method is physical controls, not chemistry ones that rely on misreading / guess level test kits in nearly all stated measurement level examples.

I would love to see your fix examples just for my personal reference.

 

[z4chburris]

Yes that is a fair point. I think I'll hold off on the fish for a while yet, maybe another month or two or longer?

It really depends on when you see your tank stabilizing. Understanding that in such a small system, this is something that may cycle through the uglies a few times but with proper husbandry, it should also resolve itself. My goal with a tank is typically to add what's necessary before the cycle and then only a fish or a pair of fish along with the pods until I see the tank living on its own, coming into 'problems', and solving those problems within a week or more.

I really like the brs biome cycle theory and method. It took a lot of the guesswork out of the equation for me.

 

[brandon429]

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

A new example is about to be added that we've worked in chat. It was the single most eutrophic/ algae dominant reef I've seen in the last five years. We waited an extra two months before deeming it fixed to ensure growback was handled/ updates on it w be posted there in a few days.

 

[brandon429]

The key change up is this, for increased nano reef compliance and less takedown losses:

Old way: deep cleaning is destabilizing/bad. Take any test reading for major params, assume those readings are correct, react with guess levels of counter doses to bring the test params up or down. Add in animals to hopefully control and remove the invasion (rarely works + disease import risk)

The new way: what removes algae and what prevents it are handled as different things. A preventer isn't used to clean a tank, a rip clean fixes a tank and can't fail to clean it nor does that cause disease. After the tank is forced compliant, you may experiment with preventatives and hopeful guesses- they're working If you don't have to ripclean a second time

And if they don't work, you don't sit passively and allow systemic decline; rip clean, lower light levels, verify topoff water tds zero and tune your preventatives better. The rip clean is refreshing, regenerating and positive for any reef- its the fallback approach

This method does not allow any reef to be lost to any invasion. Excuses are removed

 

[Max Rackstraw]

What exactly is rip cleaning? Ive never heard of doing that before.

I dont like chemical solutions anyway, about as far as i go with those is rowaphos and beneficial bacteria additives. None of that algae killing stuff.

 

[brandon429]

Check the link in post #16, read it vs skim to understand

that’s a link of six rip cleans across tanks

 

[Max Rackstraw]

What exactly is rip cleaning? Ive never heard of doing that before.

I dont like chemical solutions anyway, about as far as i go with those is rowaphos and beneficial bacteria additives. None of that algae killing stuff.

Aha i see what a rip clean is now... Ive looked at that thread...