% of fish that survive a year?

[cancun]

Hi...I have a Red Coris Wrasse in my tank for over 3yrs, a yellow Wrasse for over 3yrs, and 4 leopard wrasses for over 2yrs.....

I am a believer that the success of keeping a fish healthy long term starts with the collection of the specimen, all the way down to the LFS. Just my 2 cents! [emoji16]

 

[HB AL]

In my current tank I started 2.5 years ago I have 15 fish currently, last one added over a year ago and only lost one over 2 years ago which just disappeared a few days in. I buy from the same lfs for the last 30+ years and don't quarantine anything. In my case being in SoCal and buying from the same great lfs is definetly a contributing factor to my success with fish versus people that have no choice but to buy online or have crappy lfs's.

 

[cancun]

In my current tank I started 2.5 years ago I have 15 fish currently, last one added over a year ago and only lost one over 2 years ago which just disappeared a few days in. I buy from the same lfs for the last 30+ years and don't quarantine anything. In my case being in SoCal and buying from the same great lfs is definetly a contributing factor to my success with fish versus people that have no choice but to buy online or have crappy lfs's.

Yea....I totally agree...I am lucky to have several excellent fish stores where I live....I bought online yrs ago from LA, and I personally had bad luck doing that, so I always buy local.

 

[ca1ore]

While I agree than an excellent LFS can improve survivability from your purchase to 1 year, it probably doesn't make all that much difference to overall supply chain survivability.

 

[cancun]

While a agree than an excellent LFS can improve survivability from your purchase to 1 year, it probably doesn't make all that much difference to overall supply chain survivability.

Good point.....if the fish is doomed from the start through bad collection practices, there isn't much a LFS can do, however a good LFS, should only buy from reputable suppliers. I don't mind paying extra for a fish, that was caught and handled with great care......

 

[falc]

I always find this question a little dubious, do dog and cat owners get asked "how many kittens they kill?" or "how many puppies do you have chained up in your back yard?". Compared to the "survival rate" of the billions of pounds of ocean fish taken buy the commercial fishing fleets around the world every year, the survival rate of fish entering the aquarium hobby is great.. Enjoy your fish n chips!

 

[PatW]

My fish come in two groups: ones that die within 6 weeks and ones that live forever. Some of the smaller fish have limited lifespans and I lose them to what could be old age.

 

[gcrawford]

This probably doesn't answer the question posed, but I've had my tank up since 2011 and still have most of my original fish bought and raised from that time. I lost one that jumped, gave some away and two have passed over the years. Feed 'em, give em places to hide and change the water every once in a while. Seems to work for me.

 

[davocean]

When I'm on here, I would think the survival rate is pretty good, but when I'm at most fish stores and overhear typical questions and comments by the average nemo keeper and LFS employee, me thinks not so much maybe...

 

[Stigigemla]

I have some 13 years old fishes. And I have lost many fishes too. Some of age and some from power outages.
But i find this question a bit challenging while many think of nature as a peaceful heaven. It is not. A pelagic spawner spreads typically several millions of eggs and just 2 of them will be succesful spawners.
(If we assume the population will be constant and the sex ratio is 1/1)
I have seen figures of 1 / 100 settled small fishes reaching adult size but i dont think anybody has been counting.
To sum up: We are much better in keeping small fishes alive and growing than a natural reef.
But keeping the fishes alive is not enough. Many of us want to give our fishes a good life and that is a good environment (size and buildup in the tank + water, circulation and light) good food and good companions.

 

[PhreeByrd]

Having kept reef tanks for going on 25+ years, I can say that the mortality rate of fish I purchased online, from several different reputable sources, is 100%. I no longer, and haven't for quite some time, purchase from online sources.
I have a large number of fish that are well over 20 years old, all purchased from brick-and-mortar shops (and excluding any big box pet stores). The mortality rate among those fish has been low - probably 10-15%.
I don't buy fish often at all, as you might guess.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

This is a really pertinent topic IMO and I don't think there's any reason to shy away from it. I own an aquarium maintenance business and it has been my mission since day 1 to provide only fully quarantined, vetted and healthy fish to my customers. And so long as I am responsible for the success of their tank, I make certain they understand that purchasing unquarantined fish from other sources is a fast way to lose my services. I won't tolerate customers who don't care about the fish and treat them as ornaments. Corals are a whole other ball of wax, but that's a different discussion and suffice to say I enjoy every aspect of their biology but will not fault customers for viewing them as ornaments since I have no qualms snipping away at them and propagating them in all manner of brutal fashion.

Now, as to the rate of survival of marine fish here's the cold hard truth on my end of the business: Wholesalers lose a ton, won't even try to estimate what the actual number is but it's a lot. Once a fish is on my end I can say for certain my losses are in the 25 to 30 percent range even with as gentle and effective of a quarantine procedure as I can muster. That being said, once a fully quarantined fish is placed into a customer aquarium I have a greater than 95 percent success rate. And if said fish makes it past the first month that goes up even more. I have more than a few customer aquariums where there hasn't been a single fish lost in 5+ years. Initial import losses are inevitable, but I think a great deal of the high mortality in this hobby is due to the laziness of hobbyists in medication and preventative treatment of fishes before they enter unmedicatable or otherwise compromised tank situations. And don't misread what I am saying, I don't think the average dump and pray hobbyist is a bad person or a menace at all. It's just my assessment of why there's such a high perceived mortality rate of fish in the hobby. Some people will find this hobby unethical and others won't- that's a given But at the end of the day I think this hobby is a beautiful example of life's rich pageant you know....

 

[ca1ore]

But i find this question a bit challenging while many think of nature as a peaceful heaven. It is not. A pelagic spawner spreads typically several millions of eggs and just 2 of them will be succesful spawners.

All true, but a false equivalency. Whether fish survive better in our tanks or in the oceans is an interesting question ..... though not the one I was asking.

 

[eatbreakfast]

All true, but a false equivalency. Whether fish survive better in our tanks or in the oceans is an interesting question ..... though not the one I was asking.

The subtext of the original question, even if not intended or directly asked for, certainly begs a comparison between the % survival of fish in nature vs in captivity. It also isn't false equivalency, rather partial equivalency, as it is comparing marine fish to marine fish. So one end of the spectrum compares to are they 'worse off' and the other end looks to where it can be improved.

 

[davocean]

Yeah I guess it depends on your objective, I am often kinda defending the hobby by comparing to what a fish deals w/ in the wild, we provide an atmosphere lacking predation at the very least(usually)

My point of my first comment is those that I see on sites, researching, and practicing qt procedure have a much better success rate than the typical person at an LFS looking to buy a nemo cause their kids saw the movie.

 

[ca1ore]

The subtext of the original question, even if not intended or directly asked for, certainly begs a comparison between the % survival of fish in nature vs in captivity.

I did not intend it that way, though I suppose it's not an unreasonable leap. In order to be a 'fair' comparison, losses through the entire supply chain would need to be considered; not just purchase-to-1-year. I'm afraid THAT number is disturbingly low.

 

[cancun]

This is a really pertinent topic IMO and I don't think there's any reason to shy away from it. I own an aquarium maintenance business and it has been my mission since day 1 to provide only fully quarantined, vetted and healthy fish to my customers. And so long as I am responsible for the success of their tank, I make certain they understand that purchasing unquarantined fish from other sources is a fast way to lose my services. I won't tolerate customers who don't care about the fish and treat them as ornaments. Corals are a whole other ball of wax, but that's a different discussion and suffice to say I enjoy every aspect of their biology but will not fault customers for viewing them as ornaments since I have no qualms snipping away at them and propagating them in all manner of brutal fashion.

Now, as to the rate of survival of marine fish here's the cold hard truth on my end of the business: Wholesalers lose a ton, won't even try to estimate what the actual number is but it's a lot. Once a fish is on my end I can say for certain my losses are in the 25 to 30 percent range even with as gentle and effective of a quarantine procedure as I can muster. That being said, once a fully quarantined fish is placed into a customer aquarium I have a greater than 95 percent success rate. And if said fish makes it past the first month that goes up even more. I have more than a few customer aquariums where there hasn't been a single fish lost in 5+ years. Initial import losses are inevitable, but I think a great deal of the high mortality in this hobby is due to the laziness of hobbyists in medication and preventative treatment of fishes before they enter unmedicatable or otherwise compromised tank situations. And don't misread what I am saying, I don't think the average dump and pray hobbyist is a bad person or a menace at all. It's just my assessment of why there's such a high perceived mortality rate of fish in the hobby. Some people will find this hobby unethical and others won't- that's a given But at the end of the day I think this hobby is a beautiful example of life's rich pageant you know....

Wow.....thanks for adding your well thought out ideas coming from real life experience.....I have to say though....I have read many posts from people who do quarantine....medicate etc....and loose a huge percentage that way.... especially if not done correctly....

 

[Jesterrace]

My track record has been pretty poor.

In the last year or so that I have had fish here is my track record:

2 Diamond Watchman Gobies (1 made it 9 months and the other lasted 2-3)
1 Firefish lasted 4 months
1 Scissortail Dartfish last 5 months
1 Mandarinfish lasted just shy of 3 months

My greatest sucess story is my juvie melanurus wrasse who is coming up on his 1 year mark in july, we will see how long my captive bred pajama, yellow tang and coral beauty make it.

To be fair though I have had a number of newbie mistakes with my tanks, so it doesn't surprise me

 

[PhreeByrd]

It's a good topic for discussion, and rockskimmerflow's comments are priceless. But the topic pretty quickly becomes too broad for generalizations.
When we consider the number of fish available in the trade at the retail level which are simply not suitable for aquarium life and are doomed from the day they are collected, the facts and figures can be pretty misleading. Especially for newer hobbyists in whom suitability of species is not yet well-ingrained, it is often overwhelmingly tempting to buy that cool fish just because it looks or acts so interesting. The less conscientious retailer is happy to make the sale, even while knowing the fish will ultimately suffer and die. I hate to think of the number of cleaner wrasses, mandarins, puffers, boxfish, anthias, and other fish that were wasted this way. Ultimately, I blame the collector for these deaths. They should know better, even when the rest of the supply chain may not, and some of these difficult or impossible fish simply should never be sent the LFS in the first place.

I do know that while my favorite LFS can tell their suppliers when they want a specific animal (and generally they will get it), telling their suppliers to not supply certain animals is often ignored. They pretty much get what they get and make the best of it. That's unfortunate, but from what I've been told, this is a pretty common situation. I can't place too much responsibility on the retailers, although large online retailers should have the clout to fix this. The fact that most seem to have not tells me that making the sale is their only goal. That's sad.

 

[hart24601]

I would think from collection to 1 year in tanks would be a fraction of 1%.

Let's not kid ourselves we keep fish for our pleasure just like some catch and eat fish becasue they like the taste. I am 100% for studied sustainable harvest for the hobby, but I don't want to forget that these animals are harvested 100% for our amusement as harsh as it sounds.