oh god please help

[saltyfilmfolks]

Unfortunately, a UV is ONLY good for pelagic type pathogens as the benthic ones remain on the surfaces of the tank and everything in it.
As most nasty bacteria (like the vibrios for instance) are benthic, the UV is somewhat limited in what it is able to accomplish.
I agree that a better choice to start with is a MUCH oversized skimmer. That skimmer, coupled with due diligence to water change times and volumes, as well as VERY frequent cleaning of socks and other mechanical filtration that traps crap, go a long way to help prevent this again in the future, but also to correct for what may have happened in the past.
All that being said, I find that often it is problematic with many people advising on how to treat a specific problem as so many people have differing opinions.
Our seahorses would, IMO, be best served by choosing the person we have the most trust in for problem solving, and stick with that.
I've been in the hobby since 2003 and I know of NO one I trust more than Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com to the point that if he recommended something other than what my thoughts were for a problem, I'd go with his.

That's were I got the UV reccomend. He and a couple other trusted actual. Experts and disease control.
It also does lower the organices and waste in the tank.
It a systemwide prevention method and not as I said , to cure the disease. It helps to stop the environment/system from promoting bacterial and viral issues.
In short. It keeps the tank clean.

 

[rayjay]

I wasn't aware that Dan was now recommending UV for display tanks. It wasn't long ago that he posted that he recommended UV for fry systems, but not adults.
I'll have to check to see if he has later postings on it. I don't want to bother him directly right now as he has enough to deal with since Abbie was diagnosed with C.

 

[rayjay]

It also does lower the organices and waste in the tank.

On this point, I'd be interested in reading documentation on this as I've never seen those claims before.
UV as far as I've known can only kill live organisms not remove anything but I'm open to learning.

 

[mere]

Unfortunately, a UV is ONLY good for pelagic type pathogens as the benthic ones remain on the surfaces of the tank and everything in it.
As most nasty bacteria (like the vibrios for instance) are benthic, the UV is somewhat limited in what it is able to accomplish.
I agree that a better choice to start with is a MUCH oversized skimmer. That skimmer, coupled with due diligence to water change times and volumes, as well as VERY frequent cleaning of socks and other mechanical filtration that traps crap, go a long way to help prevent this again in the future, but also to correct for what may have happened in the past.
All that being said, I find that often it is problematic with many people advising on how to treat a specific problem as so many people have differing opinions.
Our seahorses would, IMO, be best served by choosing the person we have the most trust in for problem solving, and stick with that.
I've been in the hobby since 2003 and I know of NO one I trust more than Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com to the point that if he recommended something other than what my thoughts were for a problem, I'd go with his.

ok thank you i did go with him i have been very good at house cleaning unfortunaltly my bad point was i was stupid and figured captive breed did not need to be quarintined and put new ones with the old one (same species) but the day after i got them i noticed only little one was not using her tail i pulled her but not the two others that came with her i think they were sick to but not symptomati a hard lesson learned not to be repeated thanks again

 

[rayjay]

Not everyone has experienced this, but many have, and that is, when mixing seahorses even same species, from different breeders/stores, you could have pathogens on one purchase that another purchase of seahorses hasn't previously been exposed to and depending on their particular immune capability, can develop into problems. Many seahorses just don't do well when exposed to new pathogens they haven't grown up with.
It's also a reason that I DON'T buy seahorses from a store where the tank they are kept in either has other fish with them, or, is tied into a system with other fish. That just increases the odds of problems as the diversity of pathogens is likely to be much greater.

 

[mere]

Not everyone has experienced this, but many have, and that is, when mixing seahorses even same species, from different breeders/stores, you could have pathogens on one purchase that another purchase of seahorses hasn't previously been exposed to and depending on their particular immune capability, can develop into problems. Many seahorses just don't do well when exposed to new pathogens they haven't grown up with.
It's also a reason that I DON'T buy seahorses from a store where the tank they are kept in either has other fish with them, or, is tied into a system with other fish. That just increases the odds of problems as the diversity of pathogens is likely to be much greater.

unfortunatly i think i am fining that out the hard way thank you for the post i will always keep this in mind now i knew you could not mix speices but never thought about different sources thank again

 

[rayjay]

Well, I don't recommend mixing species but it is a fact that it is done frequently and many of those times with success. However, as it increases the odds of creating problems, I don't do it myself any more, not since my last attempt probably about 12 years ago.

 

[Heather w]

Do you have a protein skimmer on your tank? If so how many gallons is it rated for? With seahorses you need a skimmer rated at least 3 times bigger.

Remember. Seahorses are messy eaters and they leave a lot of waste, even if you spot feed them. Your skimmer has to be able to keep up. Did you buy them from a good source and have a good live quarentee? While you mourn those beautiful little lives you at least won’t get hosed financially. I have wanted horses for years. My husband made me start with a FO, then I decided to grow corals. We did that upgrade. When we move in 6 months I will transfer all of my 75 gal to a 210 and leave the 75 for seahorses. I have had no “my fault” loss of life for about 18 months. I have a big skimmer and put in a ESHoppes 55 gal refugium with a good supply of green algae and lots of movement. I know seahorses don’t like a lot of current, but how about the other fish in your tank? How was the pipefish before? Is it failing now? With the seahorses struggling? What does the tank itself look like? No new algae’s, life forms, fighting of the other fish? How many....exactly did you get? Are they just not transferring well or have the others who got sick show signs after you put them in? Do you have a quarantine tank? Can you separate them back into that and treat them while you are watching you display tank very closely. It may be that what they’re dealing with is a seahorse only thing?

You are so smart to ask your questions on this site. Salty fish-folks have never steered anyone wrong that I have seen.

 

[Heather w]

Hi mere, yes I agree with Annette. An oversized protein skimmer is important. I would choose a protein skimmer over a UV sterilizer.

Also make sure that excess food and debris are not being trapped somewhere. I use a turkey baster to blow off all my rockwork and make sure nothing is laying under the coral or in the macro algae.

Do you have an open airline in the tank to agitate the surface? Seahorses require very good aeration for gas exchange. A simple air pump with airline tubing in the tank will provide the necessary aeration and surface agitation for gas exchange.

Other than stepping up with husbandry (cleaning the tank) extra well, I personally would not treat the tank with anything. Any seahorses that appear sick should be removed and treated separately in a quarantined system. I have even used a clean 5 gallon salt bucket with newly made saltwater and an open airline. I place an artificial plant or fake coral for the seahorse to hitch to and I feed gut loaded artemia along with medication in the saltwater.

Every tank is unique depending on how much the seahorses eat, how much they waste. It sounds like you are on the right track with cleaning up after every meal and doing a total of 30% water changes a week but double check everything. Maybe food and debris is being trapped in the sump somewhere. I clean my sump several times a year since I don't use filter socks. I turn off the return pump and syphon all the water and accumulated debris out and then refill with clean salt water. Good luck to you.

I do as well. How many seahorses would a 75 gallon comfortably house. My intent is to have some zoas, a jawfish, mandarin pair, and a scooter. I have a huge anenome right now, but I miss those 3beauties. On the same side I have a goby that I’ve had for several years that hasn’t left the anemometer since I got it. A dartfish that is the same. My black cap jaw fish lives under it and has coaxed my pearly jawfish to live beside him. They even share some favorite tunnels but have separate bolt holes. So maybe a mandarin pair would do ok? I feed the anemome well? I did find the skeleton of one wrasse that died in shipping on it the next morning but I couldn’t see if it puked it up, or was brought to it from one of its many “fans”? Any thoughts on any of this? I would appreciate it

 

[Annette Garcia]

I do as well. How many seahorses would a 75 gallon comfortably house.

8 is the max amount of seahorses I would put in a 75g.

 

[mere]

Remember. Seahorses are messy eaters and they leave a lot of waste, even if you spot feed them. Your skimmer has to be able to keep up. Did you buy them from a good source and have a good live quarentee? While you mourn those beautiful little lives you at least won’t get hosed financially. I have wanted horses for years. My husband made me start with a FO, then I decided to grow corals. We did that upgrade. When we move in 6 months I will transfer all of my 75 gal to a 210 and leave the 75 for seahorses. I have had no “my fault” loss of life for about 18 months. I have a big skimmer and put in a ESHoppes 55 gal refugium with a good supply of green algae and lots of movement. I know seahorses don’t like a lot of current, but how about the other fish in your tank? How was the pipefish before? Is it failing now? With the seahorses struggling? What does the tank itself look like? No new algae’s, life forms, fighting of the other fish? How many....exactly did you get? Are they just not transferring well or have the others who got sick show signs after you put them in? Do you have a quarantine tank? Can you separate them back into that and treat them while you are watching you display tank very closely. It may be that what they’re dealing with is a seahorse only thing?

You are so smart to ask your questions on this site. Salty fish-folks have never steered anyone wrong that I have seen.

the pipe fish and fire fish look and are acting good how ever my xenia and waving hand are not they seem to be dying it stated when i uped the water changes and remove the live rock to the sump nitrates droped from20 to under 10 no new life other than the 4 horses and i am the biggest mistake by figuring they were captive breed so i did not quarintine i lost one two weeks ago and three days ago another one so they all are in qt and beening treated with furan3 as instructed by seahorse source am wondering how to clean the main tank of poss problems for when the horses can go back

 

[Darryl]

the pipe fish and fire fish look and are acting good how ever my xenia and waving hand are not they seem to be dying it stated when i uped the water changes and remove the live rock to the sump nitrates droped from20 to under 10 no new life other than the 4 horses and i am the biggest mistake by figuring they were captive breed so i did not quarintine i lost one two weeks ago and three days ago another one so they all are in qt and beening treated with furan3 as instructed by seahorse source am wondering how to clean the main tank of poss problems for when the horses can go back

Generally leaving the tank fallow for 70 days kills off most things ,but with seahorses they are very susceptible to just about everything . giving the tank a good cleaning and removing anything that might not be doing well such as corals etc would be beneficial .
also you might look into the Tunze 9012 in tank or sump skimmer that will handle the load you described very nicely also a uv filter isn't a bad idea
if you haven't removed the fish yet even if they look good you might want to consider it and QT them

 

[mere]

Generally leaving the tank fallow for 70 days kills off most things ,but with seahorses they are very susceptible to just about everything . giving the tank a good cleaning and removing anything that might not be doing well such as corals etc would be beneficial .
also you might look into the Tunze 9012 in tank or sump skimmer that will handle the load you described very nicely also a uv filter isn't a bad idea
if you haven't removed the fish yet even if they look good you might want to consider it and QT them

iset up a tank today for them and sorry new with terms tunze is a skimmer and fallow means no fish are the corals ok the ones that look ok and when you say cleaning what does that exactly mean sorry for bieing nieve

 

[Darryl]

iset up a tank today for them and sorry new with terms tunze is a skimmer and fallow means no fish are the corals ok the ones that look ok and when you say cleaning what does that exactly mean sorry for bieing nieve

don't be sorry,
Yes TUNZE is a skimmer
Fallow means no fish and rehouse the corals you think aren't doing well or are dying
clean the rock (blow off accumulating waste etc. ) clean the same way on sand but don't do the whole bottom at one time break it up in 6th and do one a day
adding the skimmer will be your best fighting tool.
ALSO just a thought, what are you feeding the ponies ? and are you feeding the other fish the same? and how much?

 

[mere]

don't be sorry,
Yes TUNZE is a skimmer
Fallow means no fish and rehouse the corals you think aren't doing well or are dying
clean the rock (blow off accumulating waste etc. ) clean the same way on sand but don't do the whole bottom at one time break it up in 6th and do one a day
adding the skimmer will be your best fighting tool.
ALSO just a thought, what are you feeding the ponies ? and are you feeding the other fish the same? and how much?

the sick coral has been removed and i was feeding the poines and firefish PR mysis in a dish three times a day vaccuuming bottom of bare bottom after every feed the [i[efish i add tigger pods once a month and thank you so much for the help i really love these crazy little fish

 

[rayjay]

I know seahorses don’t like a lot of current

I actually don't know what they really like but find them hitching in areas of low, medium and high at any given time. Some actually swim directly into the output flow of my powerheads only to return time after time.
Most experienced keepers now do not recommend low flow for seahorse tanks. By having higher flows, the crap can be kept in suspension longer so that mechanical filtration can remove it. (necessitates frequent cleaning though to prevent bacterial expansion)
The lowest I see recommended now is 10X system volume, but many of us are either closer to or above 20X flow.
May I suggest checking out seahorse.org's tankmates page? It is not complete, and, there is always a variability in individual fish behaviour, but it at least can be a starting guideline.
I'm assuming you know the anemone can't go in a seahorse tank but other fish can also be problematic. Jawfish for instance have different recommendations based on the type. Same goes for blennies.
A "0" threat level would be best choice, but "1" is often successful. As you go higher, the odds of problems increase but that again depends on the individual fish personality many times. (a black cap jawfish for instance is a threat level "3")
Lastly, while many keep other fish with seahorses successfully, many more have problems in the attempts to do so. (that includes mixing same species SH from different sources)
Seahorses, like people, have varying degrees of resistance to disease so that exposing ones that have lower resistance to new pathogens they haven't grown up with can often lead to problems and/or deaths. (you probably know some people that seem to never get sick, while others are seemingly perpetually ill)
As you don't know what your seahorse purchase is going to provide in the way of resistance, it would be safer and more successful to provide a seahorse specific tank, also making sure that all of the species come from the same source. Some start this way and after a year or so try to add other fish at that time, some succeeding some not.
Forgot to include the link to the org's tankmate list. http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/tankmates.shtml

 

[rayjay]

Generally leaving the tank fallow for 70 days kills off most things ,but with seahorses they are very susceptible to just about everything . giving the tank a good cleaning and removing anything that might not be doing well such as corals etc would be beneficial .
also you might look into the Tunze 9012 in tank or sump skimmer that will handle the load you described very nicely also a uv filter isn't a bad idea
if you haven't removed the fish yet even if they look good you might want to consider it and QT them

IME, leaving a tank fallow will help with some pathogens, it won't take care of all of them. In this case, bacterial like the vibrio types were probably the original cause of the rot and those bacteria will not disappear from leaving a tank fallow OR with UV. Most vibrio species are benthic and don't go through the UV.
I agree the the good cleaning as IME, that has worked best for me over the years.
After that though, it means possibly increasing the husbandry protocol beyond present levels.
In this case mere will have to decide though as the tank itself may have had sufficient husbandry because the new seahorses exhibited the problem so soon after introduction that they were probably already infected when purchased.
Still though, your good cleaning recommendation is excellent for the display tank at this time, especially while the seahorses can be treated in the hospital tank.
If much in the way of trapped food/detritus is found while doing the cleaning, it can be an indication that more severe cleaning/more frequent cleaning is required for that tank.

 

[I'm a natural blue]

I do as well. How many seahorses would a 75 gallon comfortably house. My intent is to have some zoas, a jawfish, mandarin pair, and a scooter. I have a huge anenome right now, but I miss those 3beauties. On the same side I have a goby that I’ve had for several years that hasn’t left the anemometer since I got it. A dartfish that is the same. My black cap jaw fish lives under it and has coaxed my pearly jawfish to live beside him. They even share some favorite tunnels but have separate bolt holes. So maybe a mandarin pair would do ok? I feed the anemome well? I did find the skeleton of one wrasse that died in shipping on it the next morning but I couldn’t see if it puked it up, or was brought to it from one of its many “fans”? Any thoughts on any of this? I would appreciate it

Hey there, Just an FYI, in case you don't know, the anemone CANNOT be with the seahorses. Any coral that stings can not be with them. No fast moving fish as their active ways can stress them out even if they are not aggressive and no fish that will out compete the seahorses for food.
Rule of thumb is 30 gallons for the first pair and an additional 15g each for each additional pair.

 

[I'm a natural blue]

Great information @rayjay! I too go to Dan for my seahorse related questions. He also did not reccomend UV to me in the last few months for adults when I asked about the use of one when I was setting up my new tank. Recently I did reach out to Alyssa at Seahorse Savvy as to not bother Dan while he and Abbie are focused on her health. I trust her as well.
I do have a question, is there any coral in the tank?

 

[rayjay]

As post #35 mentions removing a sick coral, there had to be at least one coral in the tank at the time.