Overflow gurgle

[Psiber_Syn]

I have no way to move the sump out of the way to measure how quick it drains I could remove the skimmer shop vac all the water out of that part of sump but I don't know how much that part of sump holds either

Secondly your right about the non continuous gurgle I just don't know how to figure out why it builds then flushes

The pump is the quiet one 2200 and it's throttled back almost totally but that is where the drain stays running my power head is a wavemaker so it does surge some should I lower the durso some to allow more water into the Overflow box

Conflicting advice on the airline tubing should it be deep in the durso or above waterline?

Any ideas how to pinpoint the cause of the gurgle

 

[Psiber_Syn]

I tried the T to allow air to escape from the drain but water would over the course of a few minutes start bubbling out of the air release pipe so I took it out

I had it as a 90 at the bottom of the drain into a T then a straight pipe after the T the pipe coming out of the T almost up to the bottom of the tank it didn't flow out just bubbled

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

Its not to to much flow, i have a ehiem 1262 on my 80 thats alot of flow (about 800) with 3-4ft head pressure, run two drains one with and gate valve for a full siphon and the other pipe 6 inch higher then that pipe, problem solved. My 80 deep dimension frag tank has a 1 inch drain and 3/4 return, i put a valve on the 1" drain and turn the 3/4 return hole thats next to it as the other drain and ran another pipe for the return, my mp10s are louder then my drains with that herbie style setup

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

Can you post a picture of the drain area? Looks like you have 3 pipes coming from the overflow?

 

[mcarroll]

I have no way to move the sump out of the way to measure how quick it drains

You can use any container that will fit underneath the drain outlet or underneath your return outlet - either works. A cup, a bucket, a bowl...you just have to be able to time it, so it can't be so small that it fills in less than a second.

Anyway, time how long it takes to fill whatever container you pick. Write down the time. Measure the water that was collected.

Water collected divided by time taken can be converted to gallons per hour.

Make sense?

 

[Psiber_Syn]

Yes that makes sense will do when I get home and post back

 

[Psiber_Syn]

Its not to to much flow, i have a ehiem 1262 on my 80 thats alot of flow (about 800) with 3-4ft head pressure, run two drains one with and gate valve for a full siphon and the other pipe 6 inch higher then that pipe, problem solved. My 80 deep dimension frag tank has a 1 inch drain and 3/4 return, i put a valve on the 1" drain and turn the 3/4 return hole thats next to it as the other drain and ran another pipe for the return, my mp10s are louder then my drains with that herbie style setup

Can you post a picture of the drain area? Looks like you have 3 pipes coming from the overflow?

I have 4 holes in the tank only using 2 2x1 inch and 2 x3/4

Will get some pics when I get home I'll tag you when I update could I see some pics of what your talking about?

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

You want it to be like this

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

I have 4 holes in the tank only using 2 2x1 inch and 2 x3/4

Will get some pics when I get home I'll tag you when I update could I see some pics of what your talking about?

You can use one of your 1 inch drain for full siphon with a gate valve, and one of the 3/4 for another drain then dial the valve til the the water hits the top of the 3/4 pipe. Like how the right pipe on this picture is getting some of the water in

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

I will show you a picture of my overflow tonight i get home

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

You can use one of your 1 inch drain for full siphon with a gate valve, and one of the 3/4 for another drain then dial the valve til the the water hits the top of the 3/4 pipe. Like how the right pipe on this picture is getting some of the water in

 

[mcarroll]

Any ideas how to pinpoint the cause of the gurgle

Too much flow is the cause - no doubt. The conflicting advice you noted in another post is happening just because everyone usually does everything they can to accommodate the problem by half-measures rather than addressing it directly. (The Herbie/similar crowd is the other extreme...no amount of rube-goldbergian expense or effort is too much - just make it work! )

Sampled from a Google images search for "crazy reef | aquarium plumbing":


The question is do you want to go out of your way to make it work with "too much flow"* or just correct the flow rate and eliminate the problem with the existing setup?

As you can tell already (and the problem hasn't even been nudged yet), it'll take extra work and probably some additional expense to eliminate the gurgling in the current setup.

In contrast, measuring flow and (if called for) throttling the pump some more costs nothing, is easy and sensible. Go the other route when you find out you have no other choice.

(Which is a hypothetical suggestion until you can measure the flow rate and confirm that yours is greater than 2x-4x your display tank volume. If you're already within 2x-4x then the noise is probably worth hacking on some more.)

* I put "too much" in quotes because it's too much only due to annoyance issues - nobody is getting hurt or anything.

 

[Psiber_Syn]

So what your saying is it builds up cause there's too much returning to the tank and it has to catch up am I understanding this correct?

 

[mcarroll]

Missed a post...don't actually think this is needed.

No, but....

A gravity drain has to stay open to the air to work - all the way from the top of the plumbing to the bottom of the drain. Theoretically the water just runs down the sides of the plumbing in a gravity drain.

Taking your situation as example:

When "too much" water is thrown at a gravity drain, the air gap in the middle of the plumbing gets covered up by water.

Even if that happens momentarily, it's enough to form a siphon, which causes the water in the plumbing (including everything that's above the standpipe in the drainbox too) to free-fall vs getting slowed down by friction like normal. But it's happening constantly (not momentarily) in your case because of the rate of water coming at it.​

Also, slow water flows more gently.

With "too much" flow, you're likely to get any or all of (but not limited to) the following:

• flushing sounds from the bottom of the sump
• gurgling and swirling sounds from the top of the drain
• might even get churning sounds from inside the plumbing itself
• excessive bubbles in the sump (and maybe display)

With "correct" flow for your plumbing, you shouldn't have to worry about anything but a minor bubble trap of some kind in the sump.

(With some creative and strategic plumbing, it should be possible to achieve zero bubbles AND zero noise. But without a bubble trap I'd have to invent something else to hold my ATO sensor! )

$0.02

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

Unless they have done it before or ran the set up then maybe their two cents would matter, but im uploading a video on youtube of my frag tank with roughly 800 gph flow rate on a 80 gallon. Its not the prettiest job its just my grow out tank. But youll see how quiet it is. The 1 inch durso pipe have a hole on it which i covered to get full siphon with no air.

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

Here you go. From my bed a few feet away i only hear the mp10 pumps put it that way, no splash/burps/gurgle. And people that talk about to much flow into the sump its all personal preference, they talk about the skimmer pump rate yada yada but at the end of 24hrs it will still skim the same amount of water. Some say its more effective to match the skimmer rate imo its all the same the skimmer will skim the same amount of gallons at the end of the day. Thats enough about flow rates, back to your tank, get rid of that air line cut or seal up that hole and turn the durso to a full drain with a valve, then have the other pipe tickle water in. A lil bit of dialing to do but once you got that covered turn off the return pump let everything drain then turn it back on and test it make sure its working right and doesnt overflow

 

[Aznxgqboyx]

Too much flow is the cause - no doubt. The conflicting advice you noted in another post is happening just because everyone usually does everything they can to accommodate the problem by half-measures rather than addressing it directly. (The Herbie/similar crowd is the other extreme...no amount of rube-goldbergian expense or effort is too much - just make it work! )

Sampled from a Google images search for "crazy reef | aquarium plumbing":


The question is do you want to go out of your way to make it work with "too much flow"* or just correct the flow rate and eliminate the problem with the existing setup?

As you can tell already (and the problem hasn't even been nudged yet), it'll take extra work and probably some additional expense to eliminate the gurgling in the current setup.

In contrast, measuring flow and (if called for) throttling the pump some more costs nothing, is easy and sensible. Go the other route when you find out you have no other choice.

(Which is a hypothetical suggestion until you can measure the flow rate and confirm that yours is greater than 2x-4x your display tank volume. If you're already within 2x-4x then the noise is probably worth hacking on some more.)

* I put "too much" in quotes because it's too much only due to annoyance issues - nobody is getting hurt or anything.

Wrong

Too much flow is the cause - no doubt. The conflicting advice you noted in another post is happening just because everyone usually does everything they can to accommodate the problem by half-measures rather than addressing it directly. (The Herbie/similar crowd is the other extreme...no amount of rube-goldbergian expense or effort is too much - just make it work! )

Sampled from a Google images search for "crazy reef | aquarium plumbing":


The question is do you want to go out of your way to make it work with "too much flow"* or just correct the flow rate and eliminate the problem with the existing setup?

As you can tell already (and the problem hasn't even been nudged yet), it'll take extra work and probably some additional expense to eliminate the gurgling in the current setup.

In contrast, measuring flow and (if called for) throttling the pump some more costs nothing, is easy and sensible. Go the other route when you find out you have no other choice.

(Which is a hypothetical suggestion until you can measure the flow rate and confirm that yours is greater than 2x-4x your display tank volume. If you're already within 2x-4x then the noise is probably worth hacking on some more.)

* I put "too much" in quotes because it's too much only due to annoyance issues - nobody is getting hurt or anything.

Well your a little wrong in my opinion, first for example, all he needs to do to fix the problem is to redo its plumbing, if anything all he really needs to do is just seal off that durso with the airline which cost almost nothing to do so it can get a full siphon with no air in it, and a gate valve on it he doesnt already have one on it. Second, you never want to throttle back a return pump. Your spending electric to run the pump only to run it throttled back? It will also kill your pump in the long run. Just saying nithing personal. Happy reefing

 

[Russ265]

The gurgling is the sound of air mixing with the water and trying to escape. the velocity echos in the chamber and you get a gurgle.

as @Aznxgqboyx stated, follow the durso design to mitigate the air trap.

you can also drill a hole horizontally through the submerged elbow as well for added efficiency.

 

[Salt-Lick]

I use a gate valve on the return line because sometimes it will gurgle due to the pump returning water faster than the drain line can drain it.

 

[Troylee]

Seal the durso make it a full siphon and adjust your drain accordingly... A 1-1/2" drain can handle 3000gph if I remember correctly at full siphon... Your not getting to much flow that's not your problem... If anything your drain is submerged in the sumo to much back pressuring just my 2 hth..