Par reading XR15G6 g6

Just shows the imortance of choosing the right version of the light - Running a pro at 100% intensity is never going to get you 100% of the par you thought because nobody will run white, red and green channels at 100% - AB+ does not run those channels at 100% - The blue was desinged to aid AB+ users and using a true 100% - Your literally removing some of its capability be using a pro on AB+.

A blue was designed to be run fully at 100% on all channels to give you AB+ and i imagine intensity too - hence greater par.

I see much better PAR readings from blues than pros and its pretty obvious why.
 
So how much par increase will you get by adding a Reefbrite XHO k15 kit to the G6 XR15 Maybe 25? I think the XHO K 15 kit is 35 watts maybe...
 
I'm running two G6 XR 15 Pro's on my 80 gal. Running AB+ with whites turned up to 50%. I don't know my par. My corals love the lights!
 
g56a.JPG

These charts are a good example of why BRS bugs me. The fact that their charts are official looking leads people to overestimate the importance of them, and what can be determined from them.

In both of these charts, it is very clear that the 24x24 testing box is too small to adequately describe the lights, and completely ignores that almost nobody should be running a single LED pendant (more, smaller pendants is almost always better). The G6 is designed to pitch light much wider - so you should see much less dropoff as you get further off axis - but we can't see any of that.

And there's no way in these single charts to determine the interplay/overlap between multiple lights - which is super important. You put a 2nd G5 24" away from the one in the chart, and that 557,590 on the left border is going to get higher, and the hotspot isn't going to be directly below a light - it's going to be between the two lights.

And that isn't even dealing with the fact that the thesis all these charts started with - that if you can get even par across the top you'll have the same "lighting quality" as T5 - is just nonsense. Light is directional. It's a particle/wave. A big part of the reason T5 works well is that it's emitting light from every part of the tube, and every nook and cranny on the coral gets light.

So you can't just say "Oh, I've got 350 here - great for acros" because if you're not in the center of the tank, the coral is only being lit from one side. So people build out these tanks focusing on BRS par numbers and then end up with their Acros all growing/leaning towards the middle of the tank and only colored up on one side (the side facing the light, not necessarily the side facing the viewer). And then they kill everything trying to fix the problem of their corals being brown with flow/alkalinity/nutrients/etc and never even question that the entire problem is the chart above being sophisticated nonsense because "par is fine".

Par charts like this are useful for comparing lights with very similar lens designs - but the more the structure of the lights change, the less useful they are, because they're measuring very different things, and because the wider the spread of the light gets, the more additive overlap we get between fixtures. 350 PAR on t5s or panel LEDs that cover the whole top of the tank means something very different than 350 par below a single high slung Kessil.

The chart above just tells us that the G6 is less focused than the G5 - but that's literally the point of the design of the G6. And this lower focus is a bad thing for small tanks running single lights, but a great thing for big tanks where you are going to have multiple lights, and they're going to overlap, and corals are going to be lit from more sides. (again, multiple small lights are almost always better than one big light).
 
You are not accounting for glass/substrate reflections and light refraction.
You are completely misunderstanding the post. Glass/substrate reflections are not in any way a counterpoint to anything I said - and further illustrate that the actual numbers on BRS's charts are not particularly useful because they are largely artifacts of their specific testing setup, do not demonstrate real world or optimal usage of fixtures, and light-to-light are very much apples-and-oranges.

And t5's are far from " perfect"...
I did not claim they were. BRS did, and based their entire testing methodology on that premise.
 
Just shows the imortance of choosing the right version of the light - Running a pro at 100% intensity is never going to get you 100% of the par you thought because nobody will run white, red and green channels at 100% - AB+ does not run those channels at 100% - The blue was desinged to aid AB+ users and using a true 100% - Your literally removing some of its capability be using a pro on AB+.

A blue was designed to be run fully at 100% on all channels to give you AB+ and i imagine intensity too - hence greater par.

I see much better PAR readings from blues than pros and its pretty obvious why.


Same here!! I didn't take into consideration the loss of total overall power when using the Pros with the AB+. One of those things that a person wouldn't really know until they purchase and had the have the chance to use it.

For those that don't own this, I'll try and explain a bit more: The Pros have more non-blue LEDs. When using the AB+ schedule, all non-blues (Green, Red, Warm White, Cool White) are at 24% where Blues (Blue, Royal, Violet, UV) are at 100%. This means the TOTAL output possible tops out at approx 75-78% even when the intensity is at 100% on the AB+. In short, you'll never get to 75-78% output when running AB+ on XR15s. The point to reiterate is the limitation under AB+. I could raise the non-blues higher than the 24% AB defaults and would get more PAR, but then that deviates from the AB+. If you're using primarily AB+, then I would get the Blues.

From a PAR perspective, I'm getting respectable 200-350 pars (Apogee 510) taking the AB+ highest as it will go, but that is possible because I also run T5 hybrid at 10.5" off the water level. These PARs are my max without any way to get more PAR except to maybe lower the fixture a couple inches or additional Radions. I might lower a couple inches as a last resort, but that will reduce the overall spread which I'm not ready to do yet as things appear to grow well. At least now I know my max par for my new Gen+ hybrid setup. This will do fine for SPS except for those super high 400-500+ par special SPS cases. Doesn't apply to me yet.

I just came off Gen3s XR30s. Admittedly my Gen3 has about the same if not better Par output even running at 70% total power. Granted these are XR30 vs XR15, it does reflect the more power of the much older Gen3 XR30s. Not apples to apples, but shows old lights trusty Gen3s do just fine.
 
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Took readings again this time with ONLY the Gen6 XR15 Pros alone running AB+ at 100% schedule output. I have to say I'm very disappointed in the #s which shows the necessity for me to run the T5s as my Radions alone would not be enough as tested in my 18" deep tank. Lights are 10.5" off water and my numbers are in the 100s and I don't think I found many places above 200". Flow was off to not cause refractions from the ripples and my water is clean enough with regular carbon taking some of the tint out that may affect PAR. My take aways are again disappointing when I look at the raw PAR #s which to be fair only tells one side of the story. No where close to the BRS testing #s using a calibrated MQ-510. Will 100s grow SPS for me? Probably, but the real hero here is the T5s.
 
9"+6" =15" Average around 400-ish par. Lights on full (is my assumption).
18" + 10.5" = 28.5"
Many quote the "Inverse Square rule" which states at 2x the distance you have 1/4 of the energy.
This would make the expected par at 30" of 100-ish.
If light falloff is linear one would expect it to be 200 Par at 30"

Reality is usually somewhere in-between.

Anyways 3rd party par but for a 30 not 15.
Just divide by 2.. ;)
 
Took readings again this time with ONLY the Gen6 XR15 Pros alone running AB+ at 100% schedule output. I have to say I'm very disappointed in the #s which shows the necessity for me to run the T5s as my Radions alone would not be enough as tested in my 18" deep tank. Lights are 10.5" off water and my numbers are in the 100s and I don't think I found many places above 200". Flow was off to not cause refractions from the ripples and my water is clean enough with regular carbon taking some of the tint out that may affect PAR. My take aways are again disappointing when I look at the raw PAR #s which to be fair only tells one side of the story. No where close to the BRS testing #s using a calibrated MQ-510. Will 100s grow SPS for me? Probably, but the real hero here is the T5s.
Isn’t suggested height from Ecotech 8”. Have you tried lowering 2.5”?
 
Isn’t suggested height from Ecotech 8”. Have you tried lowering 2.5”?
I believe their rms mount height is what they recommend. That’s what I use and the 8-9” is not a difference maker
 
8-10 was the BRS recommendation which I am slightly higher which is why I said I may move down a bit if I’m trying to squeeze out par numbers. Agreed 1-2 inches may not be a significant par boost at the expense of spread.
 
According to physics a single " point source" diode lensed at 120 degrees (6's are listed at slightly higher) will produce a light cone at 8" that is 27.7" wide.
Fixture is 7" x 7" but the panel is smaller.
About 6x 4
Sooo spread is 27.7 + 6 and 27.7 + 4
33.7 x 31.7
1068 sq in
L x w.
For a 24" tank height should be 6".
20.7 + 6 and 20.7 + 4
26.7x 24.7
659 sq inches.

38% increase in surface area illuminated.

Power loss per sq in is significant.

I guessed at the led dimensions Soo numbers can be cleaned up a bit.

Not sure about brs's logic. Wouldn't be where I'd start for a 24"x 24" cube
 
According to physics a single " point source" diode lensed at 120 degrees (6's are listed at slightly higher) will produce a light cone at 8" that is 27.7" wide.
Fixture is 7" x 7" but the panel is smaller.
About 6x 4
Sooo spread is 27.7 + 6 and 27.7 + 4
33.7 x 31.7
1068 sq in
L x w.
For a 24" tank height should be 6".
20.7 + 6 and 20.7 + 4
26.7x 24.7
659 sq inches.

38% increase in surface area illuminated.

Power loss per sq in is significant.

I guessed at the led dimensions Soo numbers can be cleaned up a bit.

Not sure about brs's logic. Wouldn't be where I'd start for a 24"x 24" cube
I’m sure their position is marketing for their non height adjustable $200 rms tank mounts. I’m sure you’re correct about 6” delivering more par than 10.5” but I don’t think 10.5” to 9” will make that big a difference. 6” mounting height would of been a deal breaker for me. Acropora have never faired well in my tank with leds mounted that close…..no matter what the par number was.
 
I’m sure their position is marketing for their non height adjustable $200 rms tank mounts. I’m sure you’re correct about 6” delivering more par than 10.5” but I don’t think 10.5” to 9” will make that big a difference. 6” mounting height would of been a deal breaker for me. Acropora have never faired well in my tank with leds mounted that close…..no matter what the par number was.
I hear you but the "catch" is most are lensed 90 or even less.
Not saying it would be any better for you but the physics changes things.

36.37 vs 31.18
16.6% decrease in area.
So lets do a sort of real world "test" using daylight

3756 lux vs 5076 lux using 10000 lumens

86.39 "par" vs 116.75 "par" (ppfd)
35% difference.

correction for #54:
38% increase in surface area illuminated.

Really 62% increase..
To be honest percents confuse me at time. Why? I don't know.

EX: 500 increased by 10% (0.1)
500 × (1 + 0.1) = 550

500 decreased by 10%
500 × (1 – 0.1) = 450
 
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I hear you but the "catch" is most are lensed 90 or even less.
Not saying it would be any better for you but the physics changes things.

36.37 vs 31.18
16.6% decrease in area.
So lets do a sort of real world "test" using daylight

3756 lux vs 5076 lux using 10000 lumens

86.39 "par" vs 116.75 "par" (ppfd)
35% difference.

correction for #54:


Really 62% increase..
To be honest percents confuse me at time.
Sooooo
Is that 10.5” to 9” mounting or 9” to 6”?? Sorry…..lots of things confuse me…. at all times :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

I’m by no means debating your numbers btw. Just wanting to clarify even though 6” isn’t an option for me but it may be for others. I always enjoy reading your material.
 
Sooooo
Is that 10.5” to 9” mounting or 9” to 6”?? Sorry…..lots of things confuse me…. at all times :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing::rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

I’m by no means debating your numbers btw. Just wanting to clarify even though 6” isn’t an option for me but it may be for others. I always enjoy reading your material.
Face of the lens to water surface would be What I'm comparing.
Once the light enters the water all sorts of "training" goes on so the important thing, in my mind, is to get all the photons into the tank. Also why dimming is necessary sometimes.

Dimming by height is soo old school and the light needs to go somewhere else than the tank. ;)

6" would be for a 24x24 tank.

I wanted to put into perspective what 1.5" means at those heights.
Photons that don't make it into the water just don't count.

Conversely some like that spotlight island effect which would lower ones height.. :)
 
Face of the lens to water surface would be What I'm comparing.
Once the light enters the water all sorts of "training" goes on so the important thing, in my mind, is to get all the photons into the tank. Also why dimming is necessary sometimes.

Dimming by height is soo old school and the light needs to go somewhere else than the tank. ;)

6" would be for a 24x24 tank.

I wanted to put into perspective what 1.5" means at those heights.
Photons that don't make it into the water just don't count.

Conversely some like that spotlight island effect which would lower ones height.. :)
Gotcha.

I fully understand 6” would be more effective for par/$ but that just isn’t practical for me. I really like these g6s but the 9” mounting clearance is terrible compared to the 15”s I had with old hydras. 6” would be a nightmare for me.
 
6” would be like a spot light in a DT. Maybe frag tank if you had enough of them spread out to squeeze out every par, but agreed not practical.
 

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