By the looks of this graph on a one week scale. Do these swings look detrimental for my hard corals? I started off the test when i programmed my doser. Cal was too high so its been lowered down. But the Alk is my main concern. How much wiggle room do i have for PH and Alk?
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- Thread starter ryecoon
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TwistedTiger
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Alk and ph are directly related. Fix the alk and the pH will fall in line. Alk swings do more harm to reef tanks Imo than any other parameter swing. Alk should be kept very stable. Randy Holmes Farley has some great articles on ph and alk, I'd start off reading some of those.
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Your alk swings hurt.....ouch! Stabilize that alk number. I think these are from running a Ca reactor, doing alk and attempting to adjust pH with soda ash.
yess that Alk swing is bad. I was chasing numbers again. My alk was at 8dkh and so i increased my dosing amount hourly trying to reach 10dkh. Then it went all the way up to 11dkh So i went back down to every two hours and it still went below my goal. So im leaving it alone and hoping it stays at 10dkh. My ph was actually perfect at 10dkh also.
Start slow, set a daily dosing amount and leave it for a week... Retest... Adjust params back to where they should be and then adjust daily dosage to reflect the demand...
I test my system once per week, and keep it at 142ppm Alk... I currently dose 51mL per day of Alk and Calcium solution... If at the end of the week my Alk measures 138 ppm I know that I need to A) add 4ppm of Alk to the system to bring it back in line and B) Adjust my daily dosing so that swing doesn't happen next week.
For me, 4ppm is 10.4mL of solution, which is about 1.5mL per day... Id call it 2mL and wait until next week to test again... Chasing Alk numbers on a daily basis will only lead to fluctuations due to the relative inconsistency if our test kits... Unless of course you have a huge demand and the parameters really can get out of whack that quickly...
I test my system once per week, and keep it at 142ppm Alk... I currently dose 51mL per day of Alk and Calcium solution... If at the end of the week my Alk measures 138 ppm I know that I need to A) add 4ppm of Alk to the system to bring it back in line and B) Adjust my daily dosing so that swing doesn't happen next week.
For me, 4ppm is 10.4mL of solution, which is about 1.5mL per day... Id call it 2mL and wait until next week to test again... Chasing Alk numbers on a daily basis will only lead to fluctuations due to the relative inconsistency if our test kits... Unless of course you have a huge demand and the parameters really can get out of whack that quickly...
What is your current stocking like? How old is the system?
Calcium and Alkalinity are consumed in a regular ratio of 7ppm Calcium per 1 DKH... A 20ppm drop of Calcium in one day is huge and also WAY out of line for your alkalinity consumption, which makes me think about test inconsistency again...
Also... What test kits are you using?
Calcium and Alkalinity are consumed in a regular ratio of 7ppm Calcium per 1 DKH... A 20ppm drop of Calcium in one day is huge and also WAY out of line for your alkalinity consumption, which makes me think about test inconsistency again...
Also... What test kits are you using?
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I'm also concerned about precipitation… Are you dosing the calcium/alkalinity/magnesium at the same time, or are you giving them a break between dosings?
If you're dosing every two hours, something such as 12:00 for Magnesium, 12:10 for Alkalinity, 12:20 for Calcium - Then 2:00, 2:10, 2:20 - etc…?
If you're dosing every two hours, something such as 12:00 for Magnesium, 12:10 for Alkalinity, 12:20 for Calcium - Then 2:00, 2:10, 2:20 - etc…?
Sorry to jump in but I have been using Ca 2:1 over alk my tank is using 10ppm Ca daily and 5 ppm alk daily. Using salifert and have checked the kit to make sure alk numbers are correct. Not sure we're all the Ca is going. I keep numbers at 450Ca and 4.45 meq/l same as my redsea coral pro salt.
Dosing BRS soda ash for alk. Sure would be nice if neptune made probes to monitor these things. Next prob is ORP probe but would be nice to buy a Ca, alk, and Mg probe that would be awesome.
Sorry ryecoon not trying to hijack but having same consumption issue.
Dosing BRS soda ash for alk. Sure would be nice if neptune made probes to monitor these things. Next prob is ORP probe but would be nice to buy a Ca, alk, and Mg probe that would be awesome.
Sorry ryecoon not trying to hijack but having same consumption issue.
TwistedTiger
Active Member
That is indeed a big one day drop. You may be right about preicipation, but something definitely seems wrong with the dosing. Where is the dosing going in, high flow area or low flow? If the doses are timed to close together precipitation is a very strong possibility.
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b_rad_G
Active Member
You need to calm down in the dosing! With the numbers I'm seeing you are doing a lot more harm than good by adding chemicals you probably don't even need. The huge swings will cause more damage than a steady low number. STOP CHASING A NUMBER.
Do not add anything to your tank for a few days to let the chemistry settle down. Establish a true baseline of what your tank is at instead of the bouncing around supplement induced massive swings you are showing now.
Once you figure out what it stabilizes at then you have something to go on. Use a reef calculator to determine how much and of what you need to dose. There is a good one out there but I don't have the link handy right now. This will tell you exactly how much to dose given your current numbers and desired numbers.
Bring your levels up slowly. Continue to watch your parameters during this time. Once they reach a stable level stop dosing again for a few days but keep checking the levels. After a few days you will know what your consumption is you can determine a dosing schedule.
Do not add anything to your tank for a few days to let the chemistry settle down. Establish a true baseline of what your tank is at instead of the bouncing around supplement induced massive swings you are showing now.
Once you figure out what it stabilizes at then you have something to go on. Use a reef calculator to determine how much and of what you need to dose. There is a good one out there but I don't have the link handy right now. This will tell you exactly how much to dose given your current numbers and desired numbers.
Bring your levels up slowly. Continue to watch your parameters during this time. Once they reach a stable level stop dosing again for a few days but keep checking the levels. After a few days you will know what your consumption is you can determine a dosing schedule.
b_rad_G
Active Member
Im using Salifert. When my Calcium was in the high range of 500 i dropped dosing to Every 2 hours. now that im seeing it drop 20ppm im reprogrammed doser to every hour for half the day.
at the same time. Every hour. Calcium dropped when i set it to every other hour. Didnt think it was gonna drop that low in 24 hours. so i set it back to every hour for half the day then the every hour for the other half to see if it brings it back up just a lil bit and stays like that.
My concerns after a bit more info:
1) The three elements need to be dosed at different times or AT LEAST into different parts of the system.
2) Messing with the number of times the tank is dosed also bothers me and adds to your confusion... You need to be adjusting the volume of each dose, not the frequency... Your tank consumes X mL of supplement per day regardless of whether it is added across 3 or 300 doses.
3) Adjustments should be made via Manual doses, your dosing system should be used for maintenance doses.
4) Step back, relax, and observe... As mentioned earlier, you need a baseline that cannot reliably be established by tinkering with dosing every 12 hours.
1) The three elements need to be dosed at different times or AT LEAST into different parts of the system.
2) Messing with the number of times the tank is dosed also bothers me and adds to your confusion... You need to be adjusting the volume of each dose, not the frequency... Your tank consumes X mL of supplement per day regardless of whether it is added across 3 or 300 doses.
3) Adjustments should be made via Manual doses, your dosing system should be used for maintenance doses.
4) Step back, relax, and observe... As mentioned earlier, you need a baseline that cannot reliably be established by tinkering with dosing every 12 hours.
No… You need your doser to be running… Here's what you need to do, in this order:
TODAY
1) Test your water.
2) Adjust your water to desired parameter via MANUAL dosing… Use a reef calculator!
3) Pick your frequency of dosings per day. I like twelve dosings per day. This will not chance moving forward.
4) Figure out the VOLUME that you've been dosing per day. Cut that by 20%.. We will call this "X"
3) Set your doser to dose "X" per day.
TOMORROW
1) Don't touch your test kit or doser.
THE NEXT DAY
1) Don't freakin touch your test kit or doser
THE DAY AFTER
1) Just don't.
AND THE DAY AFTER THAT
1) Test your water.
2) Are your parameters too high? If so, go to A.
Are your parameters too low? If so, go to B.
Are your parameters juuust right? If so, go to C.
A) -Reduce your dosing by the corresponding volume amount… This will require some simple math. Reef Calculators are wonderful.
-If you are 4ppm(or whatever) higher than you were on the Day One you need to reduce the amount you are over, by the number of days that have passed.
-I use 4ppm after 4 days because it is a round number. 4ppm after four days means 1ppm per day too much. Use a Calculator to determine how much dosing liquid is 1ppm per your systems total water volume.
-That amount of fluid is then subtracted from your daily dosing volume… Set your doser to the amended amount.
B) -This is the exact opposite of A… you simply increase dosing by the corresponding amount to match the deficiency.
-Set your doser to match the deficiency.
-Manually adjust parameters back up to where you want them… This will, again, require your reef calculator.
C) This is what we strive to achieve… If this is your result… Don't touch the darn thing
RETURN TO DAY LABELED "TOMORROW"
Special Note: If You encounter Result A, your parameters may be a bit higher than you prefer for a few test/adjust cycles… This is ok. They will gradually come down as your tanks demand rises as you will eventually run into either only getting Result B or Result C.
Special Note: If your test results are extremely close in either direction (1-2ppm Alk, 5-10ppm Calcium), high or low, do not adjust your dosing for that cycle… Our test kits aren't accurate enough to determine if these are actual changes or simply within margin of error.
TODAY
1) Test your water.
2) Adjust your water to desired parameter via MANUAL dosing… Use a reef calculator!
3) Pick your frequency of dosings per day. I like twelve dosings per day. This will not chance moving forward.
4) Figure out the VOLUME that you've been dosing per day. Cut that by 20%.. We will call this "X"
3) Set your doser to dose "X" per day.
TOMORROW
1) Don't touch your test kit or doser.
THE NEXT DAY
1) Don't freakin touch your test kit or doser
THE DAY AFTER
1) Just don't.
AND THE DAY AFTER THAT
1) Test your water.
2) Are your parameters too high? If so, go to A.
Are your parameters too low? If so, go to B.
Are your parameters juuust right? If so, go to C.
A) -Reduce your dosing by the corresponding volume amount… This will require some simple math. Reef Calculators are wonderful.
-If you are 4ppm(or whatever) higher than you were on the Day One you need to reduce the amount you are over, by the number of days that have passed.
-I use 4ppm after 4 days because it is a round number. 4ppm after four days means 1ppm per day too much. Use a Calculator to determine how much dosing liquid is 1ppm per your systems total water volume.
-That amount of fluid is then subtracted from your daily dosing volume… Set your doser to the amended amount.
B) -This is the exact opposite of A… you simply increase dosing by the corresponding amount to match the deficiency.
-Set your doser to match the deficiency.
-Manually adjust parameters back up to where you want them… This will, again, require your reef calculator.
C) This is what we strive to achieve… If this is your result… Don't touch the darn thing
RETURN TO DAY LABELED "TOMORROW"
Special Note: If You encounter Result A, your parameters may be a bit higher than you prefer for a few test/adjust cycles… This is ok. They will gradually come down as your tanks demand rises as you will eventually run into either only getting Result B or Result C.
Special Note: If your test results are extremely close in either direction (1-2ppm Alk, 5-10ppm Calcium), high or low, do not adjust your dosing for that cycle… Our test kits aren't accurate enough to determine if these are actual changes or simply within margin of error.
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