Parameters good - still losing everything

[IslandLifeReef]

Understood . It should be calibrated. I used the calibration fluid. Ill check it again. I noticed my parameters dropped a bit from initial fill but I attributed it to absorption and still thought it was ok since it was in proper range. Im not big on frequent water changes, but maybe I need to change my mind and approach. I started doing weekly 5 gallon changes once it start to go south, but it didnt help at all so I went back to b-weekly or monthly even.

I agree with @reacclimating 2 the hobby, there is way to big of a difference between the salt you are using and the parameters in your tank. Have you checked to see if you calibration fluid is expired? The salt you are using mixes to much higher levels than you have in your tank at an SG of 35. With that salt, your Mag should be in the 1380+ range, Calc in the 450+ range and Alk in the 11-12 range. This tells me that your SG really isn't 35.

@donomite, you really should check the calibration of your refractometer before every use, especially if you are mixing your own water. Before each water change, I check the calibration on my refractometer, then check my new water from the LFS (which they claim to be 1.025) and my tank water. Since I know what all three should be at, I know my refractometer is giving me a correct reading. Also, you need to make sure that the cover glass is sitting level on the refractometer. If it isn't, it can give you bad readings even if it was calibrated correctly.

 

[Sallstrom]

Hard to say anything for sure. But some Acropora species doesn't do well in high nitrate, some do okey. At least in those tanks I take care of.
And if you do a ICP test, you'll see if there's something off. Like copper or any other metal in the water.

 

[JoeD_]

Was your alk stable? I don't buy the "new tank" theory either. I also agree with the issue could be flow. Not enough flow for SPS means they aren't getting enoough nutrients to them AND not getting enough bad stuff away from them. But, SPS REALLY like stability... Especially ALK. I really mainly focus on my alk in my 29g.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

Was your alk stable? I don't buy the "new tank" theory either. I also agree with the issue could be flow. Not enough flow for SPS means they aren't getting enoough nutrients to them AND not getting enough bad stuff away from them. But, SPS REALLY like stability... Especially ALK. I really mainly focus on my alk in my 29g.

Beauty of the hobby is everyone is welcome to their opinions and different things work for different people. The tank is six months old and OP had two corals, why wouldn't ALK be stable?

The main issue I see(and @IslandLifeReef ), is the params don't match with the salt being used, so it's not being mixed to 35ppt or there is an underlying issue we can't figure from the given information. Why is Nitrate 40, what are feeding regime, how much, how often... perhaps research a method that doesn't require water changes if not interested in doing them.

Steps I would take:
Calibrate Refractometer
Get TDS to 0
Water Changes to reduce Nitrate
Increase flow
Patience

I think once these things are done then if OP wants to put money into more coral that is their choice. We will all still be here to give our opinions if something else happens.

Personally, when I look at the pictures, I do not see a tank ready for SPS or coral in general and would not attempt it. That's my opinion.

 

[JoeD_]

Beauty of the hobby is everyone is welcome to their opinions and different things work for different people. The tank is six months old and OP had two corals, why wouldn't ALK be stable?

The main issue I see(and @IslandLifeReef ), is the params don't match with the salt being used, so it's not being mixed to 35ppt or there is an underlying issue we can't figure from the given information. Why is Nitrate 40, what are feeding regime, how much, how often... perhaps research a method that doesn't require water changes if not interested in doing them.

Steps I would take:
Calibrate Refractometer
Get TDS to 0
Water Changes to reduce Nitrate
Increase flow
Patience

I think once these things are done then if OP wants to put money into more coral that is their choice. We will all still be here to give our opinions if something else happens.

Personally, when I look at the pictures, I do not see a tank ready for SPS or coral in general and would not attempt it. That's my opinion.

"
The tank is six months old and OP had two corals, why wouldn't ALK be stable?

The main issue I see(and @IslandLifeReef ), is the params don't match with the salt being used, "

You just asked and answered your own question, IMO!

My tank is probably 6 months old and I am growing a red planet extremely well. I have an SPS dom tank

 

[JoeD_]

Moreover, Red planets are one of the easiest SPS corals to grow. They have been in captivity for generations now. He has grown it well for 2 months then they die off. If the tank wasn't right from the get-go SPS wouldn't have grown at all. I think there is a small problem that ends up being a bigger problem ---> flow

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

If he is mixing his salt to 8.3 each time then its stable to being incorrectly mixed. Your question was is ALK stable, not mine. Sure at 8.3 and a Salinity too low for his SPS.

So I guess why ask if ALK is stable?

I'm happy your tank is doing well. As I mentioned, everything works differently for others.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

Flow is far from a small problem. I don't think SPS would wait 2 months to let you know there isn't enough flow bringing them required nutrients. Do I think he could use more flow, absolutely, do I think that is the main issue here. Not at all. OP can decide what they want to do next.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

Perhaps start a build thread so others can see what you've done to be successful with SPS in a new tank.

 

[JoeD_]

Flow is far from a small problem. I don't think SPS would wait 2 months to let you know there isn't enough flow bringing them required nutrients. Do I think he could use more flow, absolutely, do I think that is the main issue here. Not at all. OP can decide what they want to do next.

Maybe, youre right on that.. Plus, if he's not dosing and he only did EOW water changes, that doesn't sound like it would offer stable parameters.. I think he's close to getting it right.

 

[JoeD_]

Perhaps start a build thread so others can see what you've done to be successful with SPS in a new tank.

I thought about it.. here's the other issue with the "new tank theory." there's just no real concrete evidence nor is there a solid hypothesis. and everyone is just guessing with generalized rhetoric. "Maybe not enough pods, sponges, bacteria, etc..." It's kind of a myth that keeps re-circulating in the hobby.

 

[JoeD_]

Perhaps start a build thread so others can see what you've done to be successful with SPS in a new tank.

Also forry for the multiple replies, that makes it tough to parse our discussion... But I needed to start adding kalk to my tank pretty early on with just a few frags to keep alk stable... Acros definitely start sucking up lots of alk/cal fast relative to their size, imo

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

That's very strange. I attached a picture of my old 20g Nuvo. I never had to dose until about a month prior to this photo. Bi-Weekly water change of 10% and everything stayed pretty straight. Corals started growing up the glass. Between that and having to move I had to take it down and start over.

New tank theory... well there isn't evidence in either direction, but when your corals are dying and appear to be covered in dyno's I'd say you aren't far enough along. Typically don't lose corals to this type of thing with more experience, patience and time.

Red planet up front.

 

[RandyC]

I thought about it.. here's the other issue with the "new tank theory." there's just no real concrete evidence nor is there a solid hypothesis. and everyone is just guessing with generalized rhetoric. "Maybe not enough pods, sponges, bacteria, etc..." It's kind of a myth that keeps re-circulating in the hobby.

It's a myth in my opinion. Tank maturity is more about the reefer's experience and ability to react to changes or issues that crop up in the tank. I've had acros in tanks that are a month old on multiple new builds that have grown without issue.

Nitrates of 40 isn't likely your issue. Does your water company use chloramines? If they do, a 3 stage RO/DI likely isn't enough to get rid of them and chloramines do not register with a TDS meter. You might want to consider getting a Total Chlormine test kit (Amazon or pool supply store will have them - make sure they test total chlorine and not just free chlorine).

 

[JoeD_]

That's very strange. I attached a picture of my old 20g Nuvo. I never had to dose until about a month prior to this photo. Bi-Weekly water change of 10% and everything stayed pretty straight. Corals started growing up the glass. Between that and having to move I had to take it down and start over.

New tank theory... well there isn't evidence in either direction, but when your corals are dying and appear to be covered in dyno's I'd say you aren't far enough along. Typically don't lose corals to this type of thing with more experience, patience and time.

Red planet up front.

Nice tank. I think you nailed your question though... It's all about experience. Most people are going to lose corals for the first couple go around. So is it new tank, or just the fact that he's 2 months in on SPS? It's really hard to know what his issue is for sure. Its just my personal experience alk swings were always the culprit for my SPS RTN/STN-ing. It's jsut weird that his grow- - then die. So obviously there's something there that's not right. To me the first thing is always questioning the stability.....

 

[JoeD_]

It's a myth in my opinion. Tank maturity is more about the reefer's experience and ability to react to changes or issues that crop up in the tank. I've had acros in tanks that are a month old on multiple new builds that have grown without issue.

Nitrates of 40 isn't likely your issue. Does your water company use chloramines? If they do, a 3 stage RO/DI likely isn't enough to get rid of them and chloramines do not register with a TDS meter. You might want to consider getting a Total Chlormine test kit (Amazon or pool supply store will have them - make sure they test total chlorine and not just free chlorine).

Agree on all your points.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@JoeD_ , what I am trying to say, and I think @reacclimating 2 the hobby is trying to say, is that if the OP's parameters are so much lower than the salt he is mixing with is suppose to, then his salinity is probably not 35 ppt, or 1.026 SG. It is probably much lower, around 32-33 ppt. This would cause problems with SPS. Maybe not all SPS, but IMO, most.

A couple small frags that are barely growing and little coraline algae in the tank isn't going to drop the Alk from 12 to 7 and calcium from 460 ppm to 380 ppm in two weeks.

 

[BeejReef]

Love the new tank/new reefer theory discussion.

I lean towards new reefer issues bc I see myself doing it all the time. Like many on here, I read and watched so much that I know (in an academic sense) a great deal.

Reefing theory and practice are a lot different though, plus each system is different. Like Morpheus says, "There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

Assuming the new reefer will make most every mistake at least once, the tank has to have progressed far enough to have presented them with those opportunities to make and learn from particular mistakes. It's hard to over or under compensate for alkalinity demand until the tank moves that way. Hard to evaluate coral placement until you've seen enough growth to visualize the pattern.

You don't hear a lot about 12 year vets setting up their third tank struggling with "new tank" issues all that much. Is it because
1) they've learned true patience
2) they're using well-aged rock
3) they're not making rookie mistakes

 

[RandyC]

@JoeD_ , what I am trying to say, and I think @reacclimating 2 the hobby is trying to say, is that if the OP's parameters are so much lower than the salt he is mixing with is suppose to, then his salinity is probably not 35 ppt, or 1.026 SG. It is probably much lower, around 32-33 ppt. This would cause problems with SPS. Maybe not all SPS, but IMO, most.

A couple small frags that are barely growing and little coraline algae in the tank isn't going to drop the Alk from 12 to 7 and calcium from 460 ppm to 380 ppm in two weeks.

32ppt is a specific gravity of 1.0241. in my opinion, I'd have to strongly disagree that this would be cause for serious alarm for keeping SPS. I've seen great SPS tanks range from 1.023 to 1.028.

Agree though that the two week swing would not be that great without significant precipitation occurring or some kind of testing error.

 

[ether]

Tank fully cycled 6 or so months ago so tank is fairly new. cycled with mature kit and ensure that ammonia broke down within 24 hrs, etc. Bought some softies zoas, and cheap hardy acros like green slimer and red planet. They grew great for two months, started to encrust then all of sudden they just started to recede. I will post pictures here in minute. started threading at the ends. All parameters appear to be pretty dang good, no red signs. All info below should answer any pre-questions.

I had the same sort of issues and turned out my lights were too high.