Paying the price for impatience.

[4FordFamily]

Impatience has hammered me and many fish in this hobby since inception..

Wish you luck

 

[Humblefish]

Thinking about the possibility of setting up a used double tank/stand from the LFS for a TTM setup. Would it be possible to do this for all 6 fish in a pair of 20 longs? Maybe with tons of pvc/decorations? Then I could move them to the 55 for the remainder of the fallow period?

I use TTM when I have the time; but as Aquaph8 pointed out, it is a lot of work. However, I do think you could pull it off using a pair of 20L with that bioload. Just keep a close eye on the ammonia and use a neutralizer such as Prime or Amquel, as needed. I'll post below my little write up on TTM.

 

[Humblefish]

Tank Transfer Method: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Tank transfer (TTM) is probably one of the most underused and underappreciated resources in our hobby. To properly execute TTM you need two tanks (or buckets), with dedicated equipment for each tank (not to be shared between the two). I personally use 2 of the 10 gallon tanks to do TTM, each with its own heater, thermometer, air stone, airline tubing and PVC elbows for hiding places. This is how TTM is implemented:

• Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
• Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
• Day 7 - Repeat.
• Day 10 - Repeat.
• Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

After transferring, immediately sanitize the “old tank” and all equipment using bleach or vinegar. Rinse well. Let air dry thoroughly before next use. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

Simply put, this process works because you are literally outrunning the parasite’s known life cycle. If a fish is infected with ich, trophonts will leave the fish at some point during the TTM process, and the encysted stage doesn’t have enough time to release theronts (i.e. free swimmers that re-infect the fish) before the fish exits the tank. Ammonia isn’t much of a concern with TTM, because every 3 days the fish is placed in a new tank with new water; or you always have the option of using ammonia reducers, such as Amquel or Prime, in conjunction with TTM since there is no risk of negative interaction because no medications are present. However, you do have the option of dosing Prazipro (if you need to deworm) at the onset of “Day 4” and “Day 10”; transfers 2 & 4 respectively. Just remember if you do this that you can’t use any ammonia reducers while Prazi is present in the water.

One of the cons to tank transfer is the amount/cost of saltwater needed to do it. For example, using my 2-10 gallons I go through 50 gallons of saltwater before the TTM process is complete. However, a thrifty hobbyist can use water stored from a recent display tank water change to implement TTM. Obviously, this only works if you are 100% confident that your display tank is disease free and don’t siphon anything off the bottom. ;-) The other problem with TTM is netting the fish every 3 days. That concern can be somewhat alleviated by using a plastic colander in lieu of a net to catch the fish (square ones work better than round ones):

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, highly effective when performed properly, can be combined with deworming via Prazipro.

Cons/Side Effects - Cost (if using all new saltwater), time/effort expended, probably somewhat stressful on the fish being caught every 3 days.

 

[Outlaw]

Thank you. I had already read this a couple time of course

 

[Humblefish]

By the way, great info Humble! What's your take on hypo resistant strains? I've only experienced this once and I could've mid-diagnosed it but ended up using quinine which worked well. Just curious what your thoughts were, hope you don't mind outlaw.

I've never personally experienced a hypo failure, but stopped using the treatment entirely after reading the Yambot study in 2003. He successfully propagated two separate strains (of ich) in SG as low as 1.007 :twitch:. I also feel hypo is difficult to execute properly, especially for newbies. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer, and IMO use at ATO to ensure the SG does not tick up past 1.009. Too great a margin for error for my comfort level.

 

[miyags]

I do cuppramine. I treated a H.tusk and a coris wrasse with no problem. I did ramp copper up slow.

 

[pickupman66]

several years ago, I developed a nasty case of Ich in my 180 display. I had several large tangs and no Qt abilities. the decision was made to take the entire display down to Hypo 1.09. I didnt have corals or inverts at the time so it was a no brainer. Dropped it overnight and then went 4 weeks before raising it back up over 5 days. NEVER saw the parasite again. fish were just fine.

 

[Outlaw]

I wish right now, lol.

 

[Outlaw]

In all your opinions, hazards aside, which do you feel is the single most effective possible treatment?

 

[Humblefish]

In all your opinions, hazards aside, which do you feel is the single most effective possible treatment?

For ich, tank transfer method can't be beat IMHO.

 

[Outlaw]

Update: whites came on and no visible sign of white spots on any fish. The tang does have some spots on her skin where the cysts were, but also has what looks like a few abrasions on her left flank (pics).

Blenny doesn't seem to be scratching anymore.

Thoughts?

 

[Bad Company]

Sand stuck to the slime coat can look a lot like ich...

 

[Outlaw]

Everyone seems to just be doing their thing.

http://youtu.be/m7zar83AkeM

Does it sound reasonable to do a decent sized water change (needs doing) and letting it go another day before I commit to tearing up my rock work?

 

[Outlaw]

Couple tiny spots on the tang still.

 

[miyags]

Ich falls off fish when that part of it's life cycle is over. then it comes back 100 fold.!!! and reinfects every thing. I think the best for killing Ich is cuppramine.

 

[Outlaw]

So you would suggest just going ahead with the move and fallow before it gets worse, or do you think I have a window here act next time it appears?

 

[Outlaw]

I would love to do Cupramine as I could do it all in the 55 and not have to go out and buy more tanks my wife doesn't want...

But the life of the fish is the most important consideration right now.

 

[Outlaw]

Does this ever work, Lol! Hey guys, check out this net! He's your friend and gonna hang witchu overnight. He might even offer you some nice meaty delights later!

 

[JoeIII]

I left mine in a week and my blue tang would not go on that side of teh tank. Then we put a homeade fish trap in and the fish didnt come out of a cave for three days.

I gave in tonight and tore down the rock work and just chased the thing into a corner and netted it.

Backstory: we are going through the same thing you are, had ich come into a clean established system on either a frag or a chunk of live rock we didn't quarantine

 

[Outlaw]

Sorry to hear. Yeah, nothing to do but it sucks. Pretty sure I'll be taking the fish out tomorrow after my wife and father in law leave on the trip I was supposed to go on...

Now I just have to make the decision to "risk it" with copper (wrasse and tang) or buy a couple 20Ls and do the TTM. Got about 14 hrs to decide.