Peroxide dip success for GHA around Zoas

[jpark457]

I tried a peroxide dip last night on a rock with some zoas that have been getting choked out by what I’m pretty sure is GHA. Was super nervous I was going to kill the zoas and be stuck with either a hairy green rock or a totally sterile rock but it worked great! I used 500ml tank water and added 100 ml of 3% peroxide. I let it soak for 7 minutes. Could see bubbling from the algae in the dip and now today it looks all grey and seems to be fading away. Zoas don’t seem phased any more by this than they were by drowning in the algae. I didn’t take a before pic but will show the next rock I plan to try tonight with the after shot from the first try.

 

[Spare time]

Be very careful with this. Too much peroxide and the zoas will spew tons of palytoxins.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Be very careful with this. Too much peroxide and the zoas will spew tons of palytoxins.

Respectfully, you missed a Huge IF...

IF the specific zoa happens to be one of the Few that carry palytoxin.

 

[Vagabond]

I tried a peroxide dip last night on a rock with some zoas that have been getting choked out by what I’m pretty sure is GHA. Was super nervous I was going to kill the zoas and be stuck with either a hairy green rock or a totally sterile rock but it worked great! I used 500ml tank water and added 100 ml of 3% peroxide. I let it soak for 7 minutes. Could see bubbling from the algae in the dip and now today it looks all grey and seems to be fading away. Zoas don’t seem phased any more by this than they were by drowning in the algae. I didn’t take a before pic but will show the next rock I plan to try tonight with the after shot from the first try.

I tried it yesterday with some zoas also, but I didn't get the results you did.Will try your saltwater, peroxide percentage again Sunday when I do my water change.Those Rastas will grow like weeds once the rock is clean.

 

[jpark457]

I tried it yesterday with some zoas also, but I didn't get the results you did.Will try your saltwater, peroxide percentage again Sunday when I do my water change.Those Rastas will grow like weeds once the rock is clean.

I pulled the ratio off of a google search that showed another forum.



Justin Credabel's hydrogen peroxide dipping guidelines

Tolerance
Dip 5 minutes Milliliters of Hydrogen Peroxide 3% to 1 Liter of Seawater. Type of Cnidarian

Low 20-40ml
Acropora (tolerance varies widely among species), Montipora, Astreopora, Duncanopsammia, Turbinaria, Galaxia, Cyhpastrea, (*Alveopora)(**Hydnophora) Echinophyllia, Mycedium, Oxypora, Tubastrea,

Low/Med 50-70ml
Pocillopora, Seriatopora, Stylophora, Caulastrea, Clavularia, Pachyclavularia, Sympodium, Cespitularia, Yellow Leathers, Pachyceris, Echinpora, Leptoseris, Pectinia, Psammacora

Medium 80-120ml
Porites, Xenia, Brown Leathers, Pavona, Fungiids, Heliofungia,

Med/High 130-200ml
Goniopora, Favia, Favites, Goniastrea, Platygyra, Leptastrea, Blastomussa, Cynarina, Physogyra, Plerogyra, Symphyllia, Sinularia, Corallimorpharian (Mushroom Anemone)

High 210-350ml
Zoanthids, Palythoa, Scolymia, Acansthstrea, Micromussa, Lobophyllia, Euphyllia, Catalaphyllia, Trachyphyllia,

Coral can be dipped longer in a lower concentrate solution. ? concentrate for up to 20 minutes for deep, persistent algae or bacterial infections, or necrotic areas

 

[Jon's Reef]

I usually try to remove as much of the algae as possible before throwing them into the peroxide solution. I normally only do 2-3 min while using a syringe to blow onto the algae.

I have accidentally left them too long and the skirt melts. 50/50 shot if it grows back or the zoa just melts.

 

[Spare time]

Respectfully, you missed a Huge IF...

IF the specific zoa happens to be one of the Few that carry palytoxin.

It's safer to assume all have them.


This is a great read

Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade

Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) are colonial anemones that contain one of the deadliest toxins ever discovered, palytoxin (LD50 in mice 300 ng/kg), but it is generally believed that highly toxic species are not sold in the home aquarium trade. We previously showed that an unintentionally...

journals.plos.org

 

[Chrisv.]

I both assume they all have them (playing it safe) AND dip in both revive and peroxide.

 

[EricR]

I just did a zoa a week or two ago but only on a frag plug and it worked great.
I went with 2:1 ratio of saltwater to peroxide and I only left the frag in for 2 minutes.
The next day the zoas were open and the frag plug was clean.

Hadn't considered dipping an entire rock but interesting. (I think I'd be too worried about killing too much "good stuff" but I guess if the rock is overrun by GHA, could be worth it)

 

[Chrisv.]

I've also had great luck carefully using a qtip to really go nuts with undiluted peroxide on small rocks and frag plugs, being careful to not get it on the coral.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

It's safer to assume all have them.


This is a great read

Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade

Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) are colonial anemones that contain one of the deadliest toxins ever discovered, palytoxin (LD50 in mice 300 ng/kg), but it is generally believed that highly toxic species are not sold in the home aquarium trade. We previously showed that an unintentionally...

journals.plos.org

Stating it as a definitive is kind of fear-mongering.

 

[Spare time]

Stating it as a definitive is kind of fear-mongering.

It's not. It's the same reaskn why you wash your hands after dealing with things like raw meat, eggs, etc.

Not all have salmonella, but it's better to be safe than sorry. There is a difference between caution and fear mongering. You have no clue whether the individual zoa (or egg) has the toxin. Therefore you assume the risk is always present.

 

[Chrisv.]

Stating it as a definitive is kind of fear-mongering.

Is it really though? Don't you think people should be cautious, given how difficult it is to know for sure?

I am totally into zoas. I have a tank that is a dedicated zoa only zoa garden. I actively avoid palythoa. However I have no clue if some of my zoa strains are toxic. I have about two dozen strains, so I assume at least one of them is. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I also read threads all the time about people who are exposed to palytoxin. I take extra precautions when I handle zoas. I don't want to get sick and I don't want my family to get sick. I don't feel fear mongered.

It's really strange to me how defensive people get about this topic. Anytime someone posts a "beware of palytoxin" thread, there is always a nay-sayer and they end up with a whole ton of likes. Why is it so hard for reefers to admit that some of these corals may be dangerous?

Plenty of hobbies are very dangerous. It's hard to imagine people on a firearm forum arguing against storing a firearm in a safe due to the fact that it's probably not loaded. Venomous snake keepers are super rigorous about their hobby.

A hobby being dangerous doesn't mean people can't do it. It's a good thing to know about potential dangers!

 

[Jon's Reef]

For dipping a few zoas a few precautions go a long way. Just wear gloves and put on some safety glasses. The glasses not only protect you if something squirts, but also stops you from rubbing your eyes. If you want extra protection, wear a mask… we all have them readily available.

If a rock or frag plugs have zoas and you want to clean them…. Don’t. Just toss ‘em. Don’t boil them or chemically treat them. Don’t scrub them or try to dry them out. If the rock is super precious… we’ll then wear a hazmat suit and do it far away from your house.

 

[jpark457]

I agree w being careful in general because who knows? Food for thought though. I have yet to come across anything that reliably says what the actual heath risks associated with zoas are beyond some random hobbyist opinion when relating to standard handling of them or manipulating. LD 50 is the lethal does at which 50% of sujects die. What that number in the article means is that when that dose was injected or somehow fed to mice, 50% died. Nobody is injecting themselves with or eating zoas. Also it’s hard to jump from an LD 50 to real world meaning in a toxin without reference to how much of it exists in something. Does it take 10 lbs of zoas to get that much toxin? I have no clue. Often times the potency of something gets confused with a danger factor or “strength”

I’m a doc in an ER and have never seen anyone w a palytoxin issue and neither has anyone I have asked about it including a few toxicologists. I am 100% sure it is possible to poison yourself with palytoxin, I’m also 100% sure I have no idea what it takes to do that. I am interested in this as I see a lot of people mention it but kind of believe it’s sort of an urban legend / vastly over blown.

given that I don’t know the real answer to how dangerous this stuff is I do take precautions with gloves, good hand washing and ventilation etc and am not knocking anyone who does more I just can’t decide how much of any of the range of precautions people talk about is actually needed. I didn’t intend this as any commentary as to the safety of peroxide dipping zoas as I have no idea if that’s an issue but merely wanted to cite a bit of success with beating back a severe patch of algae.

I respect all opinions and welcome anyone with evidence based or even anecdotal evidence on the palytoxin stuff.

 

[Jon's Reef]

The cases of possible exposure which resulted in illness that I have heard of occurred when a large quantity was aerosolized, direct exposure to the eye or direct exposure to open wounds (cuts on the hand).

Wild varieties contain higher quantities while domesticated tend to be low or undetectable.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Is it really though? Don't you think people should be cautious, given how difficult it is to know for sure?

I do believe that people should be informed there is a Risk to working with and around palys/Zoas that contain palytoxin. The information channel is Well established at this point and statements above go past informing of possible risk, to declaring an inevitability, which is false at face value.

I don't believe that risk, should be stated as a definitive WILL HAPPEN, as was stated above.

Palytoxin is real, and palytoxin poisoning does occur from time to time( normally from the toxic being aerosolized).

If we compare the amount of members on this forum that have ever worked with or around zoanthids or palys, to the number of members that have experienced palytoxin poisoning, We will see. The exposure and complications are a very very low percentage. THIS is why it should not be stated that "Too much peroxide and the zoas will spew tons of palytoxins."

We should All take precautions working around our reefs. A scrape from a Vermited snail shell CAN cause a nasty infection leading to tissue necrosis. We don't jump around telling everyone to wear leather gloves while handling live rock or their finger will fall off..

 

[PeterEde]

Some one recently in my home city thought they'd have a family day cleaning LR. All ended up in hospital with paly poison

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Hi, did this work? What the result one month later?

I have a golf-ball size rubble with zoa's and GHA, the GHA just wont die, its on that one rock only and slowly chocking out the zoa's. I've been working on that rock for 2 months but nothing will kill the GHA without killing the zoa's.

I came across this idea on the internet, I'll try it today, hopefully it works

 

[jpark457]

Worked fantastic, did a rock w radioactive dragon eyes and one w Rasta’s. I’ll put the follow up pics up in a bit