pH keeps going up. Vinegar doesn't help for long.

[jgaepi]

I posted this message in a different thread but I figured I should expand out my question.

For four days in a row, I’ve had a put a splash of vinegar into my sump to get my pH below 8.45. My apex alarm keeps going off at 8.4. At 8.45, a little vinegar gets me down to 8.2 and then within 24 hours, I’m back to 8.45. I can’t keep doing this everyday.

I haven't sat pat to see if it would continue above 8.45 but I have to assume it would.

I have the typical display tank and refugium with a reverse lighting schedule. Chaeto and ogo in my refugium. Display tank lights at 10 hours and refugium at 8 hours. I've never had a refugium before so I've never experienced this.

I recently completed my cycle. I'm at the diatom stage. I only dose a little phyto daily for my new copepods.

Please share advice. Thank you.

 

[Bayareareefer18]

Have you double checked to make sure your ph probe is accurate? Silly question I know

 

[jgaepi]

I set it up with Apex about three weeks ago. It accurately corrects itself for the vinegar addition so I have to assume it's functioning well.

 

[UCF Alum]

8.4 is fine. Mine peaks at that then drops to 8.2 at night. Dosing vinegar is a very short term (hour or two max) solution to a non problem. I get the best growth at high pH. There’s a lot of people on there that would kill to have pH like that!
Id stop carbon dosing if nitrates are not a problem.

 

[madweazl]

I'm inclined to think the probe has failed or at least needs to be re-calibrated again. Double check it against something else (i.e. test kit). Mine shows in the 8.9 range in the evenings at the moment but I quit calibrating or buying new ones as the measurement has no value to me.

Are you dosing soda ash in larger quantities?

 

[jgaepi]

I'm inclined to think the probe has failed or at least needs to be re-calibrated again. Double check it against something else (i.e. test kit). Mine shows in the 8.9 range in the evenings at the moment but I quit calibrating or buying new ones as the measurement has no value to me.

Are you dosing soda ash in larger quantities?

I'm only dosing phyto at this time. Why no value? Are you not concerned above 8.4?

 

[saltyhog]

Just because it changes with vinegar addition doesn't mean it hasn't lost calibration. I can't imagine a pH of that range being a problem. If it concerns you , cut your refugium light schedule back and have 20 friends over to increase your CO2.

 

[Iván Olalla]

Check your probe cal, but higher ph is not an issue unless you have ammonia which can be more toxic at higher ph...as for 8.4 i have my pico reef in the range of 8.4/8.5 without issues, the controller cuts kalk if it goes up to the 8.6 range, but with the stable and high ph i get very good calcification on my sticks

 

[jgaepi]

Just because it changes with vinegar addition doesn't mean it hasn't lost calibration. I can't imagine a pH of that range being a problem. If it concerns you , cut your refugium light schedule back and have 20 friends over to increase your CO2.

If higher is fine, fine by me. I'll just change the alarm setting. I haven't checked ammonia in a few days but I was at 0 before.

 

[ZoWhat]

How old is your pH probe?

Is the probe "lab grade"?

When's the last time you calibrated the probe with 4.0, 7.0, 10.0 solution to set your SLOPE?

Only calibrating it to 7.0 DOESN'T count
.

 

[jgaepi]

How old is your pH probe?

Is the probe "lab grade"?

When's the last time you calibrated the probe with 4.0, 7.0, 10.0 solution to set your SLOPE?

Only calibrating it to 7.0 DOESN'T count
.

It's an apex. It has been up for 3 weeks. And was calibrated 3 weeks ago.

 

[Robinson]

If you still have the calibration solution, insert the probe into the solution and see if is reading properly: solution of 7.0 - display reading 7.0, solution of 10.0 - display reading 10.0. This is the only way you can confirm after a calibration that your probe is working properly. From time to time I always run this test to see if the probe is holding the calibration. Also is a good idea to have the calibration solution at the same temperature of the tank when doing calibration and whe doing this verification. Normally I float the solution for 15 minutes before attempting to do any calibration or verification.

 

[Bramzor]

If PH goes up, this means your carbon dosing is working because this will increase bacteria growth and bacteria will have an impact on the PH. So dosing vinegar (which is a carbon) might have the opposite effect.

 

[jgaepi]

If PH goes up, this means your carbon dosing is working because this will increase bacteria growth and bacteria will have an impact on the PH. So dosing vinegar (which is a carbon) might have the opposite effect.

I'm not carbon dosing tho.

 

[Iván Olalla]

If PH goes up, this means your carbon dosing is working because this will increase bacteria growth and bacteria will have an impact on the PH. So dosing vinegar (which is a carbon) might have the opposite effect.

An impact doesn´t mean a raise on ph....actually a bacterial bloom will consume oxygen in the tank, thus affecting Redox and lowering ph... a carbon source to promote bacterial growth impacts both aerobic, and anaerobic bacteria, but the effect you propose is not related....please elaborate

 

[Bramzor]

I'm not carbon dosing tho.

Vinegar = carbon dosing, as it is a carbon. Most carbon products are a mixture or one of the following: vinegar, vodka, sugar...

@Iván Olalla You are right, bacterial growth should consume oxygen and lower PH. So it's the photosynthesis organisms who consume CO2 and thats why when lights are on (in the day), PH would go up and down at night. So its the phytoplankton dosing that raises PH. Sorry for the mixup.

 

[lapin]

PH= 8.45
I recently completed my cycle. I'm at the diatom stage. I only dose a little phyto daily for my new copepods.

Your PH is going to be up and down as things grow, weather changes, ect.. Your tank is brand new. I would not worry about it right now. 8.45 is high but not that high. I would not be dosing anything in a new tank except food, (phyto) for your pods.

PS; my PH is 8.45 at 5pm

 

[Rjramos]

Nothing else besides the phyto? No type of kh calcium or buffer additives? How bout last water change?

 

[jgaepi]

Vinegar = carbon dosing, as it is a carbon. Most carbon products are a mixture or one of the following: vinegar, vodka, sugar...

@Iván Olalla You are right, bacterial growth should consume oxygen and lower PH. So it's the photosynthesis organisms who consume CO2 and thats why when lights are on (in the day), PH would go up and down at night. So its the phytoplankton dosing that raises PH. Sorry for the mixup.

Ah, the phyto increases the pH. That would make sense. Thanks.

 

[jgaepi]

Nothing else besides the phyto? No type of kh calcium or buffer additives? How bout last water change?

I did a 15% water change of RedSea blue. But that was a constant.
Presently, my pH graph dips at night with the refugium light and increases during the day with the display light.