Phosguard help

[40B Knasty]

So I can honestly admit I have GHA problem that I can never seem to get rid of. Sick of using a toothbrush to clean off the frags and LR. I tried Chemi Pure Elite(GFO) and it melted a gold torch and yellow hammer, because it was way to much GFO for a 40B.
So I came across someone saying that Phosguard is a great product.
Is this going to have the same kind of effects on my corals like the GFO did?
I do not have a reactor for something like this, but can I put it in a bag and let sit in a FLUVAL 50 above some filter floss and lightly tumble it?
I was thinking about using a fine mesh bag to put some phosguard in to help me with this battle. My phosphates are usually around .08 tested with an ELOS PRO PHOSPHATE test kit. I am guessing silicates and phosphates are the issue. pH is 8.1. Nitrates 1ppm-2.50ppm after a week.
I need to run a carbon bag for a bit to pull the Medic from Polyp Lab out, because I am done with the 20 days of dosing and it worked for ich. It will be nice to have chemical medias back in the filtrations. Go to use Purigen in the FLUVAL C4. Phosguard in the FLUVAL 50 AFTER the carbon is used.
Let me know if you have had success and definitely let me know if you had any corals melt from the Phosguard. Thanks!

 

[Tautog]

I also used ChemiPure. But changed to Phosguard. As per instruction, I started with 1 cup for my 200 gal. But, you need to monitor Po4's every week, when there's a rise, simply add more Phosguard, for me, a half a cup

 

[jenkinscrew2578]

Never used Phosegaurd, but I use PhosphateRX. Dose about once a month. Been working great for me and never had issues with any of my corals and no reactors needed. Always do a test before I dose and a day after, to make sure everything is in check. It is usually about 70 drops for my 100 gallon and 7 for my biocube 14s.

These articles and videos from Marc are great.

http://www.melevsreef.com/node/61

http://melevsreef.com/taxonomy/term/184/all

 

[40B Knasty]

I do not have a sump to hang a filter sock. If I was to use the Phosphate Rx. I have just the 2 canister filters and REEF OCTOPUS BH1000 protein skimmer. Will the filter floss in the FLUVAL 50, sponge in the FLUVAL C4, and protein skimmer collect the flocculant or just the protein skimmer?

 

[Whyteboy]

I would say go for the phosguard. It is pretty cheap and once your phosphate issue is under control it last for a long time. Initially my tank was a mess cyano covering the sand bed and green hair algae all over everything. I added a reactor with phosguard and within 3 days I noticed a huge difference. If your going from high phosphates I would follow the recommended dose but change it after a week or so. After that it should last you 4-6 weeks depending on feedings. I have a 40b reef too btw

 

[Whyteboy]

And to answer your other question. I did not have any negative effects on my frogspawn, hammer, zoas, chalice, birdsnest, or mushrooms. I didnt have a torch at the time so I cant speak to that.

 

[40B Knasty]

I don't have the space to add a reactor. This would be strictly for adding a little to the FLUVAL 50. I am asking would it work in there in a mesh bag if I was to use the Phosguard.

 

[Whyteboy]

Yeah it will work. Its not the most efficient/effective way but as long as you can get flow through it it will work. I ran it passively for a while before I got my reactor. I've never used a fluval 50 before so I don't know what the look like inside.

 

[40B Knasty]

Yeah it will work. Its not the most efficient/effective way but as long as you can get flow through it it will work. I ran it passively for a while before I got my reactor. I've never used a fluval 50 before so I don't know what the look like inside.

Just a 3 stage plastic filter basket holder for a sponge, carbon bag, and C nodes typically.

 

[brandon429]

our algae challenge cure threads run just under 200 pages and we never checked phosphate nor nitrate. we cured algae wo knowing or chasing nutrients. Where a cloudy sandbed exists, we do like to fully clean and reset those (highest nutrient sink in our tanks typically)

you have a direct kill option, not being used here, that comprises hundreds and hundreds of successful before and after pics. the toothbrushing is only half the kill option.

In nature, low levels of N and P don't control algae, only grazers do. You can easily bleach corals or not bleach them if the lucky balance + feeding is attained, when using only nutrient controls to battle gha issues. Relying on nutrient controls as the primary method of control is the #1 reason we have recurring algae challenge problems 30 yrs into the hobby, we were told that direct action wont work, but it does, and our threads grow. My own tank is now immune to gha, that once challenged it, only through direct action for a couple mos. You do not have to chase nutients to be algae free, another option exists. pair the two = powerful quick results.

though the masses will always gravitate towards nutrient management as the sole means of algae control, its really hard to make giant threads showing consistent cures that way. Lots of coral loss becomes part of those threads as they grow, but in the targeting method we use I think there was zero coral loss due to our method in all the pages, and turnaround was quick...as in a few days for first initial cleanup + good sustain where we aren't having to clean constantly. the dirty sandbed is how I attacked nutrients in those threads, but we didn't need to measure or know them.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I've used phosguard for a while. One thing you mentioned above that I want to address is DO NOT tumble it. Phosguard is a bit different than gfo in that regard. You want gfo to tumble, but you do NOT want phosguard to tumble. HTH

 

[40B Knasty]

I've used phosguard for a while. One thing you mentioned above that I want to address is DO NOT tumble it. Phosguard is a bit different than gfo in that regard. You want gfo to tumble, but you do NOT want phosguard to tumble. HTH

Thanks for that tip. Much appreciated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In nature, low levels of N and P don't control algae, only grazers do. .

That's just not true. The growth of algae on reefs is typically N or P limited. Grazers also control algae, but adding nutrients (eutrophication) can cause algae to gain the upper hand in natural reefs. Many studies show this.

 

[brandon429]

Ive combed through plenty of studies you can find as well about boxing off portions of the reef, blocking grazers, and then algae grows in the box. grazer modulation is accurately stated.

they were studies off google scholar
Every link I did see showed algae dominance on the reef solely with grazer loss / death etc.

the greater takeaway is the physical action that can be modified here to stop the algae, don't have to do anything with silicates or po4 within reasonable levels.

I typed in google scholar "nutrient limited algae growth on the coral reef" and every study on first page involved how grazers modulate primary production.

So I go and search it for ways that nutrients specifically stop algae growth on the reef when grazers do not factor, so I searched " algae growth in oligotrophic conditions"

http://aem.asm.org/content/61/6/2439.short

and a litany of counter feeding options comes up to show that by and large, algae grow in any condition and our algae cure threads got the best turnaround focusing on grazing as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ive combed through plenty of studies you can find as well about boxing off portions of the reef, blocking grazers, and then algae grows in the box. grazer modulation is accurately stated.

Of course. But you said low nutrients does not control algae growth, and that is wrong. Both do.

 

[brandon429]

I once tried to use scholar to find reefs that regulate primary growths only via oligotrophy, and couldn't, so I posted that. Ill accept links from studies that show opposite. though we are not dealing with the ocean, its not hard for either side of a disagreement to find wieldable links for any cause. what piqued my interest was the pattern, the sheer number of articles that link up grazing with primary plant production mass. to me it seemed a reasonable model to try in the box




anyone can find 25 examples of tested and verified 0/0 with algae growth in challenge threads. not the kind where sparse algae growth is claimed to command all the nutrients we'd otherwise measure, the kind where the keeper removed all the plant, and it still grew back with 0/0 readings, and those made me see nutrients as variable but not the final say in our algae battles. Contrast that to the article posted about the reef tank masters that run quadruple po4 levels in their old reefs, with no algae. Those two extremes take nutrients out of the center locus of algae problems in my opinion.

In this case pending pics, I saw ways he could use his physical grazing efforts in a boosted way to stop the regrowth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm not going to look for 25 threads for you, but there are many examples of this (two in this thread alone, as well as some who used grazers)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2469202

"Run GFO again and the hair algae will disappear. At one point I had a huge outbreak of it. I must've spent hours manually pruning it out. I got a phosban reactor+phosban and every trace of it was gone after a few weeks. "

"OK, I wanted to follow up on this. I started running a small amount of GFO and then I also started dosing Prodibio products to start lowering nutrients. Now I notice that the green hair algae is starting to lose color. Does this mean it is dying off?"


Don't get me wrong, grazers are a great way to go, if you can, but low nutrients will make the grazers you have more effective as the algae growth rate will be lower and easier for them to keep up with.

 

[brandon429]

agreed I never keep a cruddy sandbed for that reason (smaller tanks less dilution more focus on clean) had to go all clean mode and it cut down my manual hand grazing for sure, which is now subsided in lucky balance. even our bare bottom tanks need manual work glad to see that being done here, hopefully po4 detailing w work. if not, that growback can be lessened massively off better work options, nice dual option avail.

I always wonder how the alt nutrient sinks in the tank exist inside the threads where po4 detailing becomes the primary algae control mode. always curious to know if a sandbed is present that can cloud the tank if disturbed

 

[jenkinscrew2578]

I do not have a sump to hang a filter sock. If I was to use the Phosphate Rx. I have just the 2 canister filters and REEF OCTOPUS BH1000 protein skimmer. Will the filter floss in the FLUVAL 50, sponge in the FLUVAL C4, and protein skimmer collect the flocculant or just the protein skimmer?

Oh yeah it will, I just use polyfilter in my biocubes the next day and all is good. Been such an easy solution for me!

 

[Tahoe61]

I use Phosguard passively in the over flow, no issues with corals and no algae.