Phosguard help

40B Knasty · Jul 6, 2017

Thanks for those who are helping with the discussion about the phosguard product, how to use it, and the suggested Phosphate RX product. I would like to hear more from the users of phosguard and their experience.

This is not a thread about nutrients or phosphates knowledge that solves nothing or relates to the questions of "will Phosguard melt my corals or can I use Phosguard in a FLUVAL 50 as a media." The tank parameters were given. That's it. Not looking for a solution for reducing or raising those. I am looking at the Phosguard to reduce silicates. The Rx I will look into if the Phosguard removing silicates does not solve the issue, because I do not run an RO/DI system. Just a Zerowater filter and I am testing no phosphates before or after filtration. I do not test for silicates and I am GUESSING that is not being pulled from the water during the filtration. So I need something else to do just that. If the Phosguard is going to pull silicates and phosphates. Then it is a win win and I will find the amount that works best for the tank without making it total 0 phosphates since some members have given me the answers to my questions.

Tautog · Jul 6, 2017

Ok, you just got an education in nutriuents and algae.
Back to Phosguard. It's ok to use in your canister filter it won't melt your corals. I have hammers and torchs no problems. The biggest reason you would use a reactor is so that you could lower the flow rate, thus, allowing the water to react with the media, in this case Phosguard. I have mine in my sump in a mesh bag on top of my nitrate media, Matrix, and in a basket with a filter pad on top. Keeping the Phosguard debris free is key in order for it to work better. In your case, add the Phosguard near the return end with a filter pad in between it and the rest. This will keep the Phosguard cleaner, but still work effectively.
Check out Randy articles or suggestions, read them, believe them, use them with confidence

40B Knasty · Jul 6, 2017

Tautog said:
Ok, you just got an education in nutriuents and algae.
Back to Phosguard. It's ok to use in your canister filter it won't melt your corals. I have hammers and torchs no problems. The biggest reason you would use a reactor is so that you could lower the flow rate, thus, allowing the water to react with the media, in this case Phosguard. I have mine in my sump in a mesh bag on top of my nitrate media, Matrix, and in a basket with a filter pad on top. Keeping the Phosguard debris free is key in order for it to work better. In your case, add the Phosguard near the return end with a filter pad in between it and the rest. This will keep the Phosguard cleaner, but still work effectively.
Check out Randy articles or suggestions, read them, believe them, use them with confidence

I have read everything to do with algae under the sun. The balance & solution mixed is what I am looking for. I used Baxter Clean M at one time for a month. It was awesome. If I didn't have the death of my swissguard basslet. Trying to qt and keep the DT healthy. I would have been out of the woodworks for sure if I did one more bottle.
My fish problem is resolved. Back to square one with the algae. I am finding there is underlying that is not being detected. It has to be silicates. I have a brackish tank as well. There is hardly any phosphates in there, but getting algae in there now.

malacoda · Jul 6, 2017

I've use been using Phosguard for about 15 months now, first passively in my sump ... and now in a homemade nitrate reactor (e.g. a mayo jar containing Phosguard, De*Nitrate, and carbon with about 35gph of flow through it), and have had no issues whatsoever with my corals, fish, or inverts.

Two keys to getting the most benefit out of it:

Make sure it gets at least some flow through it
As mdbannister stressed, make sure it doesn't tumble - tumbling will cause it to start to breaking down into small particles and then, yes, you could start to see issues in your tank from it ... just as you would if excess carbon dust or gfo particles were to make it into your DT.

HolisticBear · Jul 6, 2017

I use Phosguard for a very specific reason, the media size. Phosguard's pellets are large, much larger than Purigen, GFO, or Rox Carbon. Since I'm on an AIO and place the media bag into a media tower, things like GFO can easily escape and blow around the tank. After trying to keep GFO in media bags, I tried Phosguard and it's perfect for me. You can use a regular BRS media bags, for something like Purigen you'd need SeaChem's media bag (which is ok for GFO)

Phosguard gets exhausted fast, I think it's the fastest of the various medias (GFO, Carbon). The label says to check PO4 after four days and if it's above 0.02, replace the media. GFO has higher capacity but typically doesn't absorb quite as quickly.

On an AIO, I consider Phosphate Rx not an option. That's an ok option if you're running a fine media sock and can pull out all the particles, some people drip it directly into a 10 micron (not 200) filter sock. I run filter floss + skimmer on an AIO and I don't feel comfortable that I can capture all the particles.

Update: I don't have a way to test silicates, so I can't say how effective. The label says so, and I can confirm it works fine on PO4. My ICP test did show a slight bump in Aluminum which is to be expected and experts (Randy) says is fine and non-toxic. I believe for that reason is why Triton recommends running alternating aluminum and gfo removal for PO4 each month.

cracker · Jul 7, 2017

This is a very interesting thread to me. thanks.

40B Knasty · Jul 7, 2017

Thanks for all the info and experiences. I am worried about the fines, quick absorption, and life of the product. It seems as though I could have an issue with to much of a pull directly from the tank. If it is as good as GFO or the same.

So here is my solution to it all. I am thinking about taking an Aqueon 10 and running it with just a bag of Phosguard(filter floss in front and behind of the bag of Phosguard it to collect fines. Plus giving the phosguard more contact time with the water. Also the flow of the Aqueon 10 has a gph of 100.) while mixing the new water to change. Which is 9 to 14 gallons usually. So I will be effectively removing silicates before it enters the display tank. Also not burning through the product as fast, because the main focus would be to just pull the silicates ONCE a week from the 9 - 14 gallons of new water for changing, because I have no phosphates in there.
Now I don't know much about silicates. I did pull this for info.
"The silica content in natural waters is commonly in the 5 to 25 mg/L range, although concentrations over 100mg/L occur in some areas. Silicates are compounds which contain silicon and oxygen in combination with such metals as aluminum, calcium, magnesium, iron, potassium, sodium and others."

Now I know that calcium, magnesium, and potassium are important for a reef tank.

The next question would be. Does Phosguard pull those things from "new water" mixing?

Someone mentioned they use phosguard with their ATO. Do you need to dose your Tank for magnesium, calcium, or potassium?(If you do. I was wondering is this maybe a reason why. Just thinking out load till we know I guess)

So hypothetically speaking if I am removing the silicates before they enter the DT. (I would be using Phosguard kind of like Prime for removing silicates and phosphates). I will not have to worry about silicates again. (Unless it is in frozen Hikari foods). Then use the Phosphate RX in the DT. Instead of doing 6 drops per 10 gallons. Which would be 24 drops per dose. I could have a slower effective removal still of phosphates by hitting the tank with 2 drops here and there to find a balance. Weakening the GHA and making it easier in theory to just syphon the GHA up and off the LR over time. This would in turn lower the CO² released into the tank from the GHA and making the tank more O² I am guessing, because it would raise the pH to 8.2-8.3. @Randy Holmes-Farley what do you make of all this?

chevegan · Jul 7, 2017

Phosphate rx is good. But I don't know why more people, all people really, don't just utilize an algae scrubber. Takes care of all these issues naturally. Still have to scrub but only the screen once a week.

HolisticBear · Jul 7, 2017

chevegan said:
all people really, don't just utilize an algae scrubber. Takes care of all these issues naturally. Still have to scrub but only the screen once a week.

The OP wanted to keep the subject on Phosguard, but I'm replacing my AIO with a RedSea Reefer and using a macro-algae reactor. I'm hoping a high quality skimmer + reactor alleviate the need for both GFO and Phosguard. But Phosguard is a great solution for AIO and other use cases.

HolisticBear · Jul 7, 2017

I rinse my phosguard for 5 minutes under the sink to remove dust + fines before it enters my tank.

brandon429 · Jul 7, 2017

where did you see the link between the GHA and the silicates was curious if it was an article

we typically find the tradeoff community for avail si to be diatoms. a sandbed rinse removes silicates sharply though

do you have pics of this tank you can post

curious about these details:
-coralline coverage. curious to see the calcification rates evident in the tank from the pics. coral growth etc. A major article was just posted a month ago regarding several prime sps tanks running 8x normal phosphate levels... the nitrate was off the charts in some. curious if cured live rock was used, or dry white rock was used before curing

you had mentioned your brackish tank getting algae w low to no p04, that's how it is for lots of folks, and then theres the irony of high nutrient tanks with no algae due to grazing and coral coverage.

cant wait to see tank pics

40B Knasty · Jul 7, 2017

brandon429 said:
where did you see the link between the GHA and the silicates was curious if it was an article

we typically find the tradeoff community for avail si to be diatoms. a sandbed rinse removes silicates sharply though

do you have pics of this tank you can post

curious about these details:
-coralline coverage. curious to see the calcification rates evident in the tank from the pics. coral growth etc. A major article was just posted a month ago regarding several prime sps tanks running 8x normal phosphate levels... the nitrate was off the charts in some. curious if cured live rock was used, or dry white rock was used before curing

you had mentioned your brackish tank getting algae w low to no p04, that's how it is for lots of folks, and then theres the irony of high nutrient tanks with no algae due to grazing and coral coverage.

cant wait to see tank pics

Look up 40B Knasty on YouTube. You can see videos of me using Bacter Clean M, ELOS test kits, white spot on a Flame Angel being most likely a fungus, and Medic by Polyp Lab used.

My brackish is over 3 years old. First time having an algae issue. It happens. Just need to keep it cleaner.

Saltwater has 42lbs of LR.
Coral growth is not a problem at all.
Coralline is present in many colors.

brandon429 · Jul 7, 2017

one reason I wanted to see pics was to see where the algae anchors
on the coralline, in between etc. its fun to try and spot patterns among tanks, whether it grows on the glass vs the substrate matters as well its fun to trace out invasion angles.

I know you are using phosguard here no prob, just curious how your tank looks overall compared to other challenge tanks. it got to the point we could predict tank turnaround time solely off a full tank shot, so its fun to ask for those even if just by message.

where did you find the silicate link to algae, was it in a forum thread

40B Knasty · Jul 7, 2017

I am not using phosguard. The thread is about experience with it..
If you want to see algae. Watch the videos.

Let me break this down for you again. I have read a lot about phosphates and silicates. I can not pin point any exact article. One was an article by randy and 20 others by 20 other people. Videos.. Where to begin! I am limited to space and money. NO sump or refugium. I am trying to find out "experiences" with the Product, because I had a very bad one with Chemi Pure Elite. GHA is on every piece of LR, hermit crab shell, snail shell, and frag being choked out. So there is NO fun in this. I have 1 idea and it was Phosguard. Then after finding out it could strip the tank to fast like the GFO did. I need to assume that there is silicates in my water, because I am sure it is not being pulled enough or at all from my Zerowater filter. I know there is no phosphates going into the tank from the water. Only what is put into it from feeding, decaying GHA in the sponge & filter floss, and fish waste.
So through this discussion of Phosguard I maybe able to eliminate a chance of fine particles out of the DT and silicates from the mixing water. Now the only thing left to blame is myself for feeding, flow, length of lights, and what phosphates & silicates remain in the tank. The RX looks very useful & easy to use. So here is the treatment of what the water would go though for stages.
1)Water filtered .000TDS
2)Saltwater mixing, heated, Prime, and filtered with MJ1200 and Aqueon 10 with a bag of Phosguard.
3)DT being low dosed with Phosphate RX to weaken the GHA just enough as to where it syphons off the LR.

brandon429 · Jul 7, 2017

I did pull up the recent vids to see the low level growth covering the rocks, very common growth and thankfully not among the worst invaders. if you keep adjusting params over and over eventually something will upset it if you want to control it that way. clearly its helping if its weakening so far.

The reason I had concerns w overstripping was due to this
https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/383863-struggling-to-manage-phosphate-in-a-nano/

Reef. · Nov 19, 2020

brandon429 said:
our algae challenge cure threads run just under 200 pages

sorry old thread but where are these challenge cure threads you talk of?

brandon429 · Nov 19, 2020

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

Thank you for the quick reply and guidance. it Is a Waterbox 100.3 so a take down is fairly easy. Went through it to get all the fish out a month ago and is no problem. All corals on plugs aside from the nem so that is also a non issue. Conchs, snails, hermits, fire and cleaner shrimp is all...

www.reef2reef.com

in that thread page one linked is 65 pages of reefcentral algae jobs, seventy pages of nano-reef.com jobs and then a good thirty pages of work from rtr, we r stacking up the after pics thats for sure

add another fifty pages of single jobs from private message

in all jobs we don’t ask for identification or tank params, I find tank params to be causative for algae about 20% of the time because on a real reef, if someone simply boxes off a section of the reef from grazing, hair algae grows even in pristine water.

so there we don’t care about phosphate other than how stripping it can cause dinos, the act of killing algae is part of handling the cause. Algae rocks wick in and hold their own detritus stores for on site breakdown and feeding, making the spot bare of algae and then cleaning the sandbed removes waste before it breaks down into bad testable tank parameters.

then of course the bigger the tank the less cleaning access we have, so nanos are our most constant work job. Direct cleaning work isn’t practical for a 300 gallon tank

but for 29 gallon tank, that should remain as the most algae fixes in one thread and zero trade off invasions. In the fluconazole thread, having cyano in response to massive system die off of algae is common, we are cyano free due to handling tank waste along with algae.

Reef. · Nov 19, 2020

brandon429 said:
Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

Thank you for the quick reply and guidance. it Is a Waterbox 100.3 so a take down is fairly easy. Went through it to get all the fish out a month ago and is no problem. All corals on plugs aside from the nem so that is also a non issue. Conchs, snails, hermits, fire and cleaner shrimp is all...

www.reef2reef.com

in that thread page one linked is 65 pages of reefcentral algae jobs, seventy pages of nano-reef.com jobs and then a good thirty pages of work from rtr, we r stacking up the after pics thats for sure

add another fifty pages of single jobs from private message

in all jobs we don’t ask for identification or tank params, I find tank params to be causative for algae about 20% of the time because on a real reef, if someone simply boxes off a section of the reef from grazing, hair algae grows even in pristine water.

so there we don’t care about phosphate other than how stripping it can cause dinos, the act of killing algae is part of handling the cause. Algae rocks wick in and hold their own detritus stores for on site breakdown and feeding, making the spot bare of algae and then cleaning the sandbed removes waste before it breaks down into bad testable tank parameters.

then of course the bigger the tank the less cleaning access we have, so nanos are our most constant work job. Direct cleaning work isn’t practical for a 300 gallon tank

but for 29 gallon tank, that should remain as the most algae fixes in one thread and zero trade off invasions. In the fluconazole thread, having cyano in response to massive system die off of algae is common, we are cyano free due to handling tank waste along with algae.