Phosphate always measures 0 but...

[Acro maniac]

About a year

The reason I asked is... if it was a new system and just going through the different "blooms" a new system goes through.
I have a very similar algae in a system that had very little to no algae in for years. Once I treated with interceptor I have faught many issues and different algea being one.
Also was wondering if the I treatment I did caused a re cycle.
Hope you get it figured out

 

[drblakjak55]

Thats baby hair algae from what i can tell. It starts by coloring your rock green. Then it will grow hairy.

All algaes accumlate their own soil. This will then release po4 locally. Hair algae is especially good at making soil.

Hair algae despite having "0" po4 can take it up as fast as it becomes available. If you had a test kit with the sensitivity and it could auto test every minute for 24 hours you' detect po4 going up and down. Up and down. It gets consumed.

That said there is no cure for algae. Its natural. You can fight it as much as you want but it will grow.

There are effective ways to control it however. Sea urchins are natures algae destroyer. Real reefs that have a lack of sea urchins get overwhelmed by algae. But when they are replaced artificially by humans the algae receeds.

Coral reefs have once been called algal reefs. Because the term coral is a misnomer. A coral reef is fueled by algae of various species. And I wouldt doubt bacteria too.

Agree 100% with the outbreaks of algae being fueled by their ability to make a soil out of the rock and deposited debris. Best way to eliminate GHA, bryopsis is a good scrubbing and turkey baste the rocks to get this potential soil from accumulating every few days until you see nothing is growing back. That and a few two inch turbo snails

 

[Heuristic]

I am officially at the part where my hair algae is slowly, very slowly, getting better but I am still getting a ton of (I'm pretty sure) diatoms... You know, my TDS meter is reading zero on my RODI water, but I'm wondering if my TDS meter just isn't working correctly.... I bought another one just to make sure(it works on my tap water and temp).

 

[Hans-Werner]

Do you suggest that I dose it?

I suggest to feed the fish more, to do water changes and not to use GFO or other things to lower phosphate. N and P must get back into balance. Then the corals will grow and with time the cyanos will disappear. In fact your images show blue-green cyanos. I do not see much algal growth.

 

[nigelmansell]

I suggest to feed the fish more, to do water changes and not to use GFO or other things to lower phosphate. N and P must get back into balance. Then the corals will grow and with time the cyanos will disappear. In fact your images show blue-green cyanos. I do not see much algal growth.

Dunno dude, doesn't seem like any cyano I've had before. That usually can be peeled or syphoned off the surface, this is like the rock/sand/shell itself is being dipped in green dye.

 

[Hans-Werner]

The color is quite typical for cyanos in some parts. Maybe it is mixed with endolithic green algae.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Here's the deal.
There a couple threads about million pages long on this.

The the current consensus (and actually always has been) is nutrient limitation can lead to the proliferation of certain organisms. They can then establish an Dominnce in the tank by leveraging conditions in the biosphere to tap resources that then out compete other more Benicial microfloura and fauna.

So without a microscope and a phd , what you can do is to increase nutrients and introduce other more beneficial and diverse organisms in to the sphere to-out compete the nusance organism. This is usually combined with manual removal or killing of the organism.
This is the basis of most dino treatments in fact. Although it may currently not be recognized as such.

Yes, it's a tiny bit counter intuitive , I have alge So feed more. And yes you may experience a slight bloom , but the introduction of a competitor is a very important step imo to combat this.

For years with typical cyanos , I've said remove as much as you can , do water changes , and add bottled bacterias. Current is reccomend DT tims one and only as it has several strains. The next step up from there and is Micofauna treatments , aged live rock, garf grunge , Fiji mud. The mud is the least expensive of those. GArf grunge is
the coolest cuz you can order corals from Sally Joe while you are at it.
Jus sayin , a GArf bonsai from GArf.

 

[Joe Rice]

I recently had a bad algae outbreak in my 2 year old tank. For what it's worth, both phosphate and nitrate were testing zero. I did the following:

1. Improved the lighting on my refugium
2. Started dosing iron (on the theory that the refugium might be iron-limited)
3. Manually removed as much of the algae as possible (perhaps was able to get 40%)
4. Beefed up my cleanup crew
5. Added a small amount of GFO

It worked. Display tank is clean as a whistle now and my refugium is growing better and looking much healthier. And I'm feeding more heavily than ever. I still have to clean the glass every third day or so but almost no nuisance algae anywhere else.

 

[Brew12]

So without a microscope and a phd , what you can do is to increase nutrients and introduce other more beneficial and diverse organisms in to the sphere to-out compete the nusance organism. This is usually combined with manual removal or killing of the organism.
This is the basis of most dino treatments in fact. Although it may currently not be recognized as such.

Yes, it's a tiny bit counter intuitive , I have alge So feed more. And yes you may experience a slight bloom , but the introduction of a competitor is a very important step imo to combat this.

100% agree!

Growth of everything is limited by something. It may be its own slow reproduction rate, it could be nutrients, or it could be trace elements.

IMO the best way to get rid of a problem algae/bacteria is to find out what nutrient/condition/trace element is limiting growth of something more desirable that can be easily removed or eaten.

 

[drblakjak55]

I recently had a bad algae outbreak in my 2 year old tank. For what it's worth, both phosphate and nitrate were testing zero. I did the following:

1. Improved the lighting on my refugium
2. Started dosing iron (on the theory that the refugium might be iron-limited)
3. Manually removed as much of the algae as possible (perhaps was able to get 40%)
4. Beefed up my cleanup crew
5. Added a small amount of GFO

It worked. Display tank is clean as a whistle now and my refugium is growing better and looking much healthier. And I'm feeding more heavily than ever. I still have to clean the glass every third day or so but almost no nuisance algae anywhere else.

2,3,4,5 worked great. How come everyone loves to dose stuff. Iron feeds bacteria as well

 

[nigelmansell]

That's a great run of posts. If I'm following correctly, I'm limited on something which means I'm not getting the usual hair algae etc that grazers can eat. Instead I'm getting over run with this endolithic green algae (or cyano or whatever it is) which can thrive with low phosphate/iron/whatever.

THis also makes sense for why the macroalgae in my ALR doesn't grow.

So should I dose phosphate and nitrate directly? I have the powders already from my FW days (EI ferts). Or is it better just to over feed the fish a little?

I have Colombo Metals+ which is iron, manganese, cobalt and nickel. So I can start dosing that to increase the iron levels I suppose. Or is there a recommended product for doing this?

Thanks again

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

2,3,4,5 worked great. How come everyone loves to dose stuff. Iron feeds bacteria as well

What type of bacteria are you concerned about?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

That's a great run of posts. If I'm following correctly, I'm limited on something which means I'm not getting the usual hair algae etc that grazers can eat. Instead I'm getting over run with this endolithic green algae (or cyano or whatever it is) which can thrive with low phosphate/iron/whatever.

THis also makes sense for why the macroalgae in my ALR doesn't grow.

So should I dose phosphate and nitrate directly? I have the powders already from my FW days (EI ferts). Or is it better just to over feed the fish a little?

I have Colombo Metals+ which is iron, manganese, cobalt and nickel. So I can start dosing that to increase the iron levels I suppose. Or is there a recommended product for doing this?

Thanks again

Water changes should be putting those metals back in for you, I suppose the dose is fine.

Your choice on nutrient dosing. I find it easier to feed more or add different foods. Fish eggs high in fats , brine shrimp with spirulina etc. geeen foods. High in iron.

 

[Joe Rice]

Water changes should be putting those metals back in for you

My understanding is that iron gets depleted very quickly so I'm not sure if water changes will suffice. After a month of daily dosing, I sent out a water sample for ICP testing and the iron level still came back as undetectable (< 0.01 ppm).

 

[Brew12]

My understanding is that iron gets depleted very quickly so I'm not sure if water changes will suffice. After a month of daily dosing, I sent out a water sample for ICP testing and the iron level still came back as undetectable (< 0.01 ppm).

I think it is very system dependent. Some people go years without adding iron. I had what I believe to be cyano and dino's at the same time and couldn't get macro algae to grow. I added iron and within days my algae was growing great and problem bacteria was gone.

I have no explanation as to why usage is so different.

 

[nigelmansell]

I think it is very system dependent. Some people go years without adding iron. I had what I believe to be cyano and dino's at the same time and couldn't get macro algae to grow. I added iron and within days my algae was growing great and problem bacteria was gone.

I have no explanation as to why usage is so different.

What source did you use, Brew?

What level did you dose to?

 

[nigelmansell]

Also I tried testing my phosphate at different times of the day.

-2pm lights on-
4pm (before feed) = 0 ppm
9pm (lights off, 1 hr after feeding) = 0.15 ppm
7am (11 hrs after feeding) = 0.15 ppm
-2pm lights on-
4pm (24 hrs after feeding) = 0 ppm

Now, I know PO4 is obviously going to fluctuate a fair bit from feeding. But I want to check, is that level of fluctutation normal?

 

[Brew12]

What source did you use, Brew?

What level did you dose to?

I used the Red Sea product and did about 1/2 the recommended dose for my tank size. Did the same size dose a week later. Haven't added any since.

Those fluctuations are a little high imo but not completely unexpected. Between the feeding and the fact that more nutrients are consumed during the lights on period than lights out, it would make sense. The size of the swing could be magnified by the inaccuracy of the test kit, too.

 

[Joe Rice]

Also I tried testing my phosphate at different times of the day.

-2pm lights on-
4pm (before feed) = 0 ppm
9pm (lights off, 1 hr after feeding) = 0.15 ppm
7am (11 hrs after feeding) = 0.15 ppm
-2pm lights on-
4pm (24 hrs after feeding) = 0 ppm

That's really interesting information. Kinda' begs the question of what it means to say "my phosphate levels are X".

 

[Brew12]

That's really interesting information. Kinda' begs the question of what it means to say "my phosphate levels are X".

It means you have a rough idea of what was in the water at the moment you tested it. Nothing more, nothing less. For trending, you need to sample at the same time every day.

I have been doing research on the composition and nutritional needs of problem bacteria like cyano and dino's. My hopes is to be able to identify nutrient unbalances so we can judge chemistry in terms of symptoms instead of test results.

One thing phosphate is very good for though is to make sure it isn't getting too high. My understanding is that high phosphates can ****** coral growth but I think you have to be in the 0.4ppm or higher range to see that.